Origin of God's Morality.

[civilwarbuff]

Which post are you quoting here?

Just follow the thread up......

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You haven't proven that all systems are not designed. Name one!

How could I possibly prove that not all systems are designed to your satisfaction when you have already defined a "system" as something designed? I can only point out that you are conflating the two words ("system" and "design") in order to advance your argument. When we encounter a system, we can ask whether it is designed. But we don't assume that, because it is a system, it must be designed.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Because everything is designed.

That's what you keep claiming, yes, but how about trying to substantiate it? I know that some things are designed, but how did you reason to the conclusion that "everything is designed"?

 

[Davian]

Oh, don't tell me you need a dictionary too?

No, he doesn't need a dictionary, but he appears to be trying to reconcile the meaning of those terms, with what you post.

Indeed. It is that hypocrisy that prompted me to ask the question.

Interestingly, the question remains unanswered.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

If it's not random, it's a system.

Yes, a system with processes that we can model and thus try to understand.

 

[Root of Jesse]

How could I possibly prove that not all systems are designed to your satisfaction when you have already defined a "system" as something designed? I can only point out that you are conflating the two words ("system" and "design") in order to advance your argument. When we encounter a system, we can ask whether it is designed. But we don't assume that, because it is a system, it must be designed.

Try me. Show me a system that's not designed.

 

[Root of Jesse]

That's what you keep claiming, yes, but how about trying to substantiate it? I know that some things are designed, but how did you reason to the conclusion that "everything is designed"?

Show me something that's not designed.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Try me. Show me a system that's not designed.

But you've already defined a "system" as something designed, meaning that every time you encounter something systematic, you automatically conclude that it is designed. In your mind, there is no way for a system to emerge naturally; it must be the result of design.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yes, a system with processes that we can model and thus try to understand.

That's very true. The only way for us to understand it is to study it and find out how they work based on predictable events. Like the laws of thermodynamics (which also are evidence of God, by the way).

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Show me something that's not designed.

So that puddle over there was designed? It's as much a design to you as a car or rocket?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Just not the full definition.....
Nothing sounds like something that has to be designed to me.....no randomness there...

Full Definition of systematic

1: relating to or consisting of a system

2: presented or formulated as a coherent body of ideas or principles <systematic thought>

3a : methodical in procedure or plan <asystematic approach> <a systematic scholar>b : marked by thoroughness and regularity<systematic efforts>

4: of, relating to, or concerned with classification; specifically : taxonomic

systematically play\-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb

systematicness play\-tik-nəs\ noun

See systematic defined for English-language learners

See systematic defined for kids



Examples of systematic in a sent

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/systematic

Here is the definition for "systematic" given in the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

Note also the definition of "system" given:

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That's very true. The only way for us to understand it is to study it and find out how they work based on predictable events. Like the laws of thermodynamics (which also are evidence of God, by the way).

So systems operating naturally on their own without the guidance of a supernatural agent is somehow evidence for a supernatural agent?

 

[Root of Jesse]

But you've already defined a "system" as something designed, meaning that every time you encounter something systematic, you automatically conclude that it is designed. In your mind, there is no way for a system to emerge naturally; it must be the result of design.

Full Definition of system

1. 1: a regularly interacting or interdependent group of items forming a unified whole <a number system>: asa (1) : a group of interacting bodies under the influence of related forces <a gravitationalsystem> (2) : an assemblage of substances that is in or tends to equilibrium <a thermodynamic system>b (1) : a group of body organs that together perform one or more vital functions <the digestive system> (2) : the body considered as a functional unitc : a group of related natural objects or forces <a river system>d : a group of devices or artificial objects or an organization forming a network especially for distributing something or serving a common purpose <a telephone system> <a heatingsystem> <a highway system> <a computer system>e : a major division of rocks usually larger than a series and including all formed during a period or eraf : a form of social, economic, or political organization or practice <the capitalist system>
   
   
2. 2: an organized set of doctrines, ideas, or principles usually intended to explain the arrangement or working of a systematic whole <the Newtonian system of mechanics>
   
   
3. 3a : an organized or established procedure <the touch system of typing>b : a manner of classifying, symbolizing, or schematizing <a taxonomic system> <the decimal system>
   
   
4. 4: harmonious arrangement or pattern : order <bring system out of confusion — Ellen Glasgow>
   
   
5. 5: an organized society or social situation regarded as stultifying or oppressive : establishment 2 —usually used with the
   

Show me a system by the definition above, that's not designed.

 

[civilwarbuff]

So that puddle over there was designed? It's as much a design to you as a car or rocket?

The molecules that are attracted to each other forming droplets which further form larger collections of water sound designed to me, not just something that happens by chance.....

 

[Root of Jesse]

So systems operating naturally on their own without the guidance of a supernatural agent is somehow evidence for a supernatural agent?

Show me one such system.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Just not the full definition.....

I did provide the full definition. You never answered my question about polysemy.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Show me one such system.

You mentioned one yourself: the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[Root of Jesse]

So that puddle over there was designed? It's as much a design to you as a car or rocket?

You think that's a system? The water in the puddle, the mud in the puddle, are designed. The water is a combination of atoms which were designed, and so is the dirt in the mud. The puddle isn't a system, per se.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The molecules that are attracted to each other forming droplets which further form larger collections of water sound designed to me, not just something that happens by chance.....

Where did I say that it happened by chance? You are falling into the same false dichotomy again.

 

[Root of Jesse]

You mentioned one yourself: the laws of thermodynamics.

Simple Definition of law

• : the whole system or set of rules made by the government of a town, state, country, etc.

In other words, laws are systems made by someone.