Galatians 3: Under The Law?

[Cribstyl]

Wrong, wrong and wrong. Gentiles are branches grafted into the root, which is Christ. The Children of Israel were broken off the root because of unbelief. Who wants to be grafted into a broken off branch called" The Children of Israel" or to steal their identity?
Does it matter who God made a promise to if the promise is to bless the world?
The Gentiles become heirs because of the Abrahamic covenant (promise) was "through thy seed(Jesus) all nations of the earth will be blessed".

Wrong. All of the Children of Israel were not broken off of the Olive Tree.

The Gentiles were grafted in among the Israelite branches, like Paul (Romans 11:1), that remained in the tree.

The branches broken off can be grafted back into the Olive Tree, through faith in Christ.

3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the day of Pentecost.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
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If I'm wrong, explain whom Paul is calling "THEY" about being broken off?
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Who said it must be all of them? Scripture says only a remnant believed.

 

[BABerean2]

If I'm wrong, explain whom Paul is calling "THEY" about being broken off?
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Who said it must be all of them? Scripture says only a remnant believed.

There are two groups referred to as "they" in Romans chapter 11.

Paul begins chapter 11 with two groups of Israelites.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. (Paul was an Israelite who accepted Christ and was a part of the remnant in the Olive Tree.)

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
(Here "they" refers to the Israelites who worshipped Baal.)

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. (Here we find the remnant of 7,000 Israelites who would not bow to Baal.)

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(In Paul's time there was also a remnant of faithful Israelites who remained in the Olive Tree. The Gentiles were grafted in among these Israelite branches, which remained in the tree.)

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? (There are three groups of branches here. There are those of the Israelite "good Olive tree" branches, which remained in the tree through faith. There were those Gentile branches of the "wild Olive tree". And there were those Israelite branches broken off of the "good Olive tree" because they did not accept Christ.)

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

The verse above contains two groups referred to as "they". There were "they" who would not accept the Gospel and there were "they" who did accept Christ and were the election.

Paul ended the chapter with two groups of Israelites, just as he started the chapter with two groups of Israelites.
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[disciple1]

For the Jews, before Christ died on the cross and the Holy Spirit was given to men, understanding and obeying the Law was impossible.

But now, through Christ's death and resurrection, we are made righteous through faith and the Spirit can dwell in us, which it didn't with the Israelites... therefore He is now able to keep the Law through us.

If you are honest with yourself, the only one you don't keep is the 4th. I can guarantee that you try not to violate the other nine, what Christian wouldn't in good conscience? Do you think God wrote with His own finger, REMEMBER on only one of the ten to be the one that is discarded? Not rescinded and rejected out of Christ's mouth who gave it, but from Paul's passages, which are ambiguous at best. I would dare say that the (mis)understanding of Paul's writings are the main reason there are so must splintering of doctrines in our churches today.

The Decalogue is not a foot note in the history of the OT Jews, the Sabbath is mentioned in the NT 55 times compared to 91 times in the OT. Does that sound like a subject that was OT only in it's importance? Give me one, just one passage of Christ saying anything against the Sabbath the way you suppose Paul to do... the Sabbath that He, being our example in all things, kept and honoured His Father by doing so.... I want to honour the Father and the Son, don't you. He gave a clear example and you want to knit pick semantics from passages that can be taken in a number of ways.... that is your rock that you are basing your eternity on? Not what Jesus taught and showed, but ambiguity and tradition? Is that what you'll say when Christ says to you 'depart from me ye worker of lawlessness'? Turn and repent and let Christ work in and through you to do as He gave us example to do.

I think everyone who goes to church or studies the bible believe god is on their side. I notice it's mostly sdas who believe we need to keep the law even though they don't.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin the deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Even Saul thought god was on his side even after all the times he disobeyed god.
1 Samuel chapter 23
7 Saul was told that David had gone to Keilah, and he said, “God has delivered him into my hands, for David has imprisoned himself by entering a town with gates and bars.” 8 And Saul called up all his forces for battle, to go down to Keilah to besiege David and his men.
1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
love covers many sins.
That's all we need to do and that's the most we can do.

 

[Cribstyl]

There are two groups referred to as "they" in Romans chapter 11.

Paul begins chapter 11 with two groups of Israelites.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. (Paul was an Israelite who accepted Christ and was a part of the remnant in the Olive Tree.)

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
(Here "they" refers to the Israelites who worshipped Baal.)

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. (Here we find the remnant of 7,000 Israelites who would not bow to Baal.)

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(In Paul's time there was also a remnant of faithful Israelites who remained in the Olive Tree. The Gentiles were grafted in among these Israelite branches, which remained in the tree.)

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? (There are three groups of branches here. There are those of the Israelite "good Olive tree" branches, which remained in the tree through faith. There were those Gentile branches of the "wild Olive tree". And there were those Israelite branches broken off of the "good Olive tree" because they did not accept Christ.)

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

The verse above contains two groups referred to as "they". There were "they" who would not accept the Gospel and there were "they" who did accept Christ and were the election.

Paul ended the chapter with two groups of Israelites, just as he started the chapter with two groups of Israelites.
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.

What a shame, repeating and explaining a lie does not make it true. Rom 11:1 positively identifies them as: (a)God's people,(b)Israelites, (c) seed of Abraham.
Your silence on Roman 11:2 allows you to add another group of people in verse 3, but Rom 11:2 continues to identify the Children of Israel as: " (a)His people who He foreknew", (b) Israel.
(3) Rom 11:3 is a quote from Elijah 1Ki 19:14
And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
Identifies "THEY" as (a)The Children of Israel.

 

[BABerean2]

What a shame, repeating and explaining a lie does not make it true. Rom 11:1 positively identifies them as: (a)God's people,(b)Israelites, (c) seed of Abraham.
Your silence on Roman 11:2 allows you to add another group of people in verse 3, but Rom 11:2 continues to identify the Children of Israel as: " (a)His people who He foreknew", (b) Israel.
(3) Rom 11:3 is a quote from Elijah 1Ki 19:14
And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
Identifies "THEY" as (a)The Children of Israel.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(Not all of those descended from Israel are Israel.)

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The children of the Flesh are not the children of God.
The children of the Promise are the children of God.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The Promises to Abraham were made only to Christ.
The Promises were not made to the many seeds.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We are the seed of Abraham through Christ and inherit the Promise through Him.


You are attempting to replace the Israel of the Promise with Israel of the Flesh.

The Apostle Paul, who was an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin, inherited the Promise through Christ instead of through his bloodline. Romans 11:1-6

God has not cast away those whom he foreknew from the foundation of the world, that would accept His Son.
These are the election according to Grace in Romans 11:5.

It does not include those Israelites who reject God's Son, just as it did not include the Baal worshippers.




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[Cribstyl]

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(Not all of those descended from Israel are Israel.)

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The children of the Flesh are not the children of God.
The children of the Promise are the children of God.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The Promises to Abraham were made only to Christ.
The Promises were not made to the many seeds.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We are the seed of Abraham through Christ and inherit the Promise through Him.


You are attempting to replace the Israel of the Promise with Israel of the Flesh.

The Apostle Paul, who was an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin, inherited the Promise through Christ instead of through his bloodline. Romans 11:1-6

God has not cast away those whom he foreknew from the foundation of the world, that would accept His Son.
These are the election according to Grace in Romans 11:5.

It does not include those Israelites who reject God's Son, just as it did not include the Baal worshippers.




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Context matters. Anyone who read Romans 11 as part of a letter from Paul understands that it coincides with the consistent OT account of The Children of Israel (COI). In Rom 11 The COI are first identified as His people, they broke the covenants, they broke commandments, they worship idols, they rejected and killed the prophets and Jesus. In my view, you're factoring in another group from outside the lines of the scriptures.
The idea that Jesus came unto His own and they refused Him cannot be credited to another people. Your arguments are questionable at best.

 

[BABerean2]

Context matters. Anyone who read Romans 11 as part of a letter from Paul understands that it coincides with the consistent OT account of The Children of Israel (COI). In Rom 11 The COI are first identified as His people, they broke the covenants, they broke commandments, they worship idols, they rejected and killed the prophets and Jesus. In my view, you're factoring in another group from outside the lines of the scriptures.
The idea that Jesus came unto His own and they refused Him cannot be credited to another people. Your arguments are questionable at best.

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There is only one people of God, not two, based on the words of Jesus above.


There were also "they" who accepted Him on the day of Pentecost.

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We see above the Apostle Peter was clearly talking to "they", who were of "the House of Israel".

And on that day there were 3,000 of "they" who were Israelites, that accepted His gift of salvation.

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[Cribstyl]

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There is only one people of God, not two, based on the words of Jesus above.

You sure are consistent. Your topic and the scriptures are not saying the same thing. Jesus is using prophetic and metaphoric language. In this context, "sheep" are people who hear the shepherd's voice and believe. They will obey, get baptized and become followers of Christ or namely "Christians". (not Jews or proselytes )
"This fold" represents Jewish believers.
"Not of this fold" represents Gentile believers that shall (were yet to) hear and believe.
"One fold" represents all nations of believers (Christians not Jews).

There were also "they" who accepted Him on the day of Pentecost.

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We see above the Apostle Peter was clearly talking to "they", who were of "the House of Israel".

And on that day there were 3,000 of "they" who were Israelites, that accepted His gift of salvation.

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Clue: Peter is not using prophetic and metaphors to explain what happens on Pentecost. Yes, we can agree that Jews were first to Join the church that Christ built and became Christians.
Tell us which group did Peter say crucified Jesus? Defense rests.

 

[BABerean2]

Clue: Peter is not using prophetic and metaphors to explain what happens on Pentecost. Yes, we can agree that Jews were first to Join the church that Christ built and became Christians.
Tell us which group did Peter say crucified Jesus? Defense rests.

We agree then that not all of the Israelites rejected Christ.

Peter said that those he was speaking to crucified Jesus.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

.

 

[Cribstyl]

We agree then that not all of the Israelites rejected Christ.

Peter said that those he was speaking to crucified Jesus.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

.

OK, we're in agreement.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I agree with you... the old covenant, which involved the sacrificial system to atone for men's sins was made better in the new covenant by atonement through Christ.
But the Law stands in both covenants to convict us of our need of a Saviour... in the OT a promise, to us the fulfillment and present Spirit of Christ..

And that is perhaps why YAHWEH allowed the Romans to level Jerusalem and it's Temple in ad 70 along with not accepting Jesus as their Lord, Savior and Redeemer.

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet these-things to be becoming, up-bend! and lift-up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the redemption/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye.
[Hosea 13:14/Daniel 12]

I can actually view OC Jerusalem as the "Babylon" shown in revelation

Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in this day, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was hid from thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.
44 And they shall be leveling thee and thy offspring in thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee, instead which not thou knew the time of thy visitation/overseeing/inspection".

Reve 14:8
And another second Messenger, follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

..........................In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! --



.

 

[disciple1]

And that is perhaps why YAHWEH allowed the Romans to level Jerusalem and it's Temple in ad 70 along with not accepting Jesus as their Lord, Savior and Redeemer.

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet these-things to be becoming, up-bend! and lift-up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the redemption/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye.
[Hosea 13:14/Daniel 12]

I can actually view OC Jerusalem as the "Babylon" shown in revelation

Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in this day, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was hid from thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.
44 And they shall be leveling thee and thy offspring in thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee, instead which not thou knew the time of thy visitation/overseeing/inspection".

Reve 14:8
And another second Messenger, follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

..........................In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! --



.

Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

And that is perhaps why YAHWEH allowed the Romans to level Jerusalem and it's Temple in ad 70 along with not accepting Jesus as their Lord, Savior and Redeemer.

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet these-things to be becoming, up-bend! and lift-up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the redemption/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye.
[Hosea 13:14/Daniel 12]

I can actually view OC Jerusalem as the "Babylon" shown in revelation

Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in this day, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was hid from thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.
44 And they shall be leveling thee and thy offspring in thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee, instead which not thou knew the time of thy visitation/overseeing/inspection".

Reve 14:8
And another second Messenger, follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

..........................In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! --



.

Interesting idea of an immediate fulfillment except the nagging matter that it was written 20 years after the destruction... not what you'd expect from a book that is all forward facing prophesy. It was not written in a historical manner but in prophetic prose.

Also the context around Rev 14 is end time prophesy and places it just prior to Christ second advent. There are similarities though in that both are about apostate worship to God.

 

[disciple1]

Interesting idea of an immediate fulfillment except the nagging matter that it was written 20 years after the destruction... not what you'd expect from a book that is all forward facing prophesy. It was not written in a historical manner but in prophetic prose.

Also the context around Rev 14 is end time prophesy and places it just prior to Christ second advent. There are similarities though in that both are about apostate worship to God.

This is the only way I know to Jesus.
John chapter 6
37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
Mark chapter 7
6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.

And this is how you come to Jesus.


Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.
Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

 

[Jason Sanders]

I have a question. Say the old covenant/the law still stands/applies to us Christians today. Say that you are a new Christian, just brought into the faith through baptism, and therefore have accepted the forgiveness bought for you on the Cross. What happens next?

 

[Sophrosyne]

I have a question. Say the old covenant/the law still stands/applies to us Christians today. Say that you are a new Christian, just brought into the faith through baptism, and therefore have accepted the forgiveness bought for you on the Cross. What happens next?

If you believe the old covenant Mosaic Law still applies you better find yourself a levitical priest and a synagoge and begin studying up on it so you will be in compliance to it, make sure you are properly circumcised and don't dare read Paul's writings as they would confuse you greatly the more you understood them.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I have a question. Say the old covenant/the law still stands/applies to us Christians today. Say that you are a new Christian, just brought into the faith through baptism, and therefore have accepted the forgiveness bought for you on the Cross. What happens next?

Well, unlike our esteemed member above, I suggest, based on scripture, that there were two separate covenants made with Israel... one was to obey the 10 Commandments as given from God, and the other was to obey the Mosaic commandments as given through Moses. The fact that the first was written by God's own finger and kept inside the ark whereas the latter was written by Moses and kept on the outside of the ark.

What's ironic is that every Christian believes that not having any other gods above Jehovah, not killing, not stealing, not committing adultery, not coveting, etc, are all valid and a part of every Christians walk... make no mistake, the only Commandment that most Christians balk at is the 4th... the Sabbath Commandment, the only one to begin with the word "remember". It also happens to be the only Commandment that identifies the authority of it's giver. When those opposed to honouring God by keeping a holy day in communion with Him try and dissuade you from it, you have to think that the 10 Commandments were a contract, you can't just arbitrarily remove one of the tenets while claiming the other 9 are still in effect... either they all stand together or they are all done away with, which would imply that adultery et al are now permissible. People love to quote Paul in saying that the Commandments cannot save and this is absolutely true, as Salvation is only through Christ our Saviour, just as it was during the time of the OT Israelites. They weren't saved through the keeping of the Commandments any more than we are, the Commandments are meant to show us what sin is and to drive us seek repentance from that sin. As John the apostle says, "sin is the transgression of the Law"

My advice to you is to consider these things, pray for the Spirit's discernment and then decide what God has said in His Word. This covenant, or contract was agreed upon by two parties, Christ and the people... without Christ formally and clearly rescinding the Commandments then they still stand, regardless of what Paul is to have supposedly said. Remember that we are also Abrahams seed through Christ and heirs to the same promises as the Israelites were... we are grafted in to Israel spiritually and are treated by God as His people, not with division of OT vs NT or Jews vs Gentile or old covenant vs new covenant. The anti Sabbath crowd would love to think that God somehow has had different agreements with different groups of people but that is just confusion and we know who the author of confusion is. Satan hates the seventh day Sabbath and has and will continue to do whatever he can to abolish it. The seventh day Sabbath identifies God Almighty as the Creator of the heavens and the earth...

Jesus is to be our example in ALL things.... Jesus perfectly kept the moral Law yet was critical and rebelled against some of the Pharisaical laws and rules that were a part of the Mosaic covenant because they had failed in their application of being object lessons to better understand the spiritual meanings behind them. Ask yourself, did Jesus keep the Sabbath? Did He ever say anything against keeping the Sabbath? then by what right do we have to say, "well, Paul seems to say this or that?" Who do you think is correct? Who are you going to follow? I believe that Paul was in complete agreement with the Law as it is to be understood and honoured, he was speaking against the wrongly held belief that salvation is through keeping the Law.

Peace and God bless...

 

[BABerean2]

Well, unlike our esteemed member above, I suggest, based on scripture, that there were two separate covenants made with Israel... one was to obey the 10 Commandments as given from God, and the other was to obey the Mosaic commandments as given through Moses. The fact that the first was written by God's own finger and kept inside the ark whereas the latter was written by Moses and kept on the outside of the ark.

What's ironic is that every Christian believes that not having any other gods above Jehovah, not killing, not stealing, not committing adultery, not coveting, etc, are all valid and a part of every Christians walk... make no mistake, the only Commandment that most Christians balk at is the 4th... the Sabbath Commandment, the only one to begin with the word "remember". It also happens to be the only Commandment that identifies the authority of it's giver. When those opposed to honouring God by keeping a holy day in communion with Him try and dissuade you from it, you have to think that the 10 Commandments were a contract, you can't just arbitrarily remove one of the tenets while claiming the other 9 are still in effect... either they all stand together or they are all done away with, which would imply that adultery et al are now permissible. People love to quote Paul in saying that the Commandments cannot save and this is absolutely true, as Salvation is only through Christ our Saviour, just as it was during the time of the OT Israelites. They weren't saved through the keeping of the Commandments any more than we are, the Commandments are meant to show us what sin is and to drive us seek repentance from that sin. As John the apostle says, "sin is the transgression of the Law"

My advice to you is to consider these things, pray for the Spirit's discernment and then decide what God has said in His Word. This covenant, or contract was agreed upon by two parties, Christ and the people... without Christ formally and clearly rescinding the Commandments then they still stand, regardless of what Paul is to have supposedly said. Remember that we are also Abrahams seed through Christ and heirs to the same promises as the Israelites were... we are grafted in to Israel spiritually and are treated by God as His people, not with division of OT vs NT or Jews vs Gentile or old covenant vs new covenant. The anti Sabbath crowd would love to think that God somehow has had different agreements with different groups of people but that is just confusion and we know who the author of confusion is. Satan hates the seventh day Sabbath and has and will continue to do whatever he can to abolish it. The seventh day Sabbath identifies God Almighty as the Creator of the heavens and the earth...

Jesus is to be our example in ALL things.... Jesus perfectly kept the moral Law yet was critical and rebelled against some of the Pharisaical laws and rules that were a part of the Mosaic covenant because they had failed in their application of being object lessons to better understand the spiritual meanings behind them. Ask yourself, did Jesus keep the Sabbath? Did He ever say anything against keeping the Sabbath? then by what right do we have to say, "well, Paul seems to say this or that?" Who do you think is correct? Who are you going to follow? I believe that Paul was in complete agreement with the Law as it is to be understood and honoured, he was speaking against the wrongly held belief that salvation is through keeping the Law.

Peace and God bless...

The problem with your logic is that it cannot be found in scripture.

The Sinai covenant is the 10 commandments written on the tables of stone.

The part written down by Moses was to further explain the 10 commandments.
For example if your ox steals your neighbor's grass by eating it, how would this be handled under the 10 commandments?
If you did not keep the Sabbath properly, you could be stoned and this was explained in the part written by Moses.


Exo_34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deu_4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

The New Covenant would not be like the Sinai covenant, which the children of Israel had broken.
As a matter of fact, only Christ ever has keep the Sinai covenant.
Those who claim they are keeping it are deluding themselves.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Here the Apostle Paul compares the Sinai covenant to bondage, which it continues to be for those who claim they are keeping it.)

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(We are children of the New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven based on Hebrews 11:16.)

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. (Paul clearly tells us to cast our the Sinai covenant and says the inheritance does not come through the Sinai covenant.)

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
(We are the children of the New Covenant.)


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


We are under a higher law.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
(This is the Sinai covenant law and is a lower standard of conduct, when compared to the words of Christ.)


Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (This is the Law of Christ, which is a higher standard.)


If Christ appeared to His disciples on the first day and the early Church met and preached on that day, it should be for us as well.

Joh_20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Act_20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

As a matter of fact, only Christ ever has keep the Sinai covenant.
Those who claim they are keeping it are deluding themselves.

So you are saying that Christ came and did something that we are not able to? That's not what my Bible says...

Mark 10:27
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Are you saying that Jesus was being dishonest in this passage? If He could keep the Law as you stated through faith and strength from His Father, are we not promised the same?

 

[Jason Sanders]

So you are saying that Christ came and did something that we are not able to? That's not what my Bible says...

Mark 10:27
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Are you saying that Jesus was being dishonest in this passage? If He could keep the Law as you stated through faith and strength from His Father, are we not promised the same?

Are you claiming any man could have done what Christ did? Because uh, that's utter nonsense. No one without a perfect connection to and understanding of the Father could follow the Law without fail- Jesus was the only one who could. Even now, if you were to pick the most holy, most righteous, most in-tune with God man on the planet, he wouldn't be enough.