Predestination, is it coercive determinism ?

[98cwitr]

You do understand the world is inclusive of everybody?

In the light of verses 17-21, the "world" [Kosmos - greek] is translated into "any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort"

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/kosmos.html

If Christ died for someone who is destined for hell that is an irrelevant point to make don't you think? The word should be shared with all because we don't know who it will or will not impact, but those who will believe will and who will not will not.

 

[98cwitr]

What elephant?

That God knew that Adam and Eve would eat before the tree was even created

You need to address whether God is causing humanity to sin or if we do it of our own accord.

God creates all things. Those things cause good and bad things to happen and God knew they would do so. Does that make God responsible...or the "things" responsible?

What has to be addressed? They do not disagree with what I said.

Good deal...just posting them for reference then.

Yes of our own free will because we love Christ. It is a natural end result to having faith in the saviour.

But what about those who DONT have that natural tendency?

They go to hell because they chose to ignore the offer of salvation.

But we need to address WHY they chose that...was it because they didn't have a nature to do so?

I'd prefer you stopped playing games. You want me to address verses that don't disagree with anything I said, for what reason? Is there some adrenalin rush here for you if I do? You had a problem with my post, you wanted proof I gave it, you haven't address the section of scripture I gave yet you want me to address things you give. I said this next comment to someone else, I'm not your monkey and I don't work in your circus.

Not playing games...Im having a conversation with you. Don't make this personal.

If you want something you should return the favour.

Im doing my best to do so.

 

[98cwitr]

God wills what is good and wills all be saved but he can not rule over our freedom because then we would not exist. if we want hell can exist forever, in duality eternal separation is possible. one day God said to me in spirit when I asked him that i don't want to exist:

"really? are you really sure? i'm going to give you some time to decide if that is what you really want, but I want you to exist and I love you, I don't think you are making a very good decision in choosing to destroy yourself, I think you are sick and need to be healed, and then when you are healed I will let you decide if you really want to exist or not, but i just can't let you go that easily."

Isaiah 29:16
You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, “You did not make me”? Can the pot say to the potter, “You know nothing”?

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

In the light of verses 17-21, the "world" [Kosmos - greek] is translated into "any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort"

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/kosmos.html

If Christ died for someone who is destined for hell that is an irrelevant point to make don't you think? The word should be shared with all because we don't know who it will or will not impact, but those who will believe will and who will not will not.

Where did I say that we should only preach to the saved? Because there is no way of knowing for sure who is saved or who isn't truly saved because only God knows our hearts. So here again we are told the teach ALL the world including the unsaved that chose hell over heaven....

Matthew 28:18-201599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
18 And Jesus came, and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me, in heaven, and in earth.
19 Go therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the holy Ghost,
20 Teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, until the end of the world, Amen.

So here again we are told all the world is to be taught the Good News.

 

[keltoi]

Isa 45:7 simply reveals God creates evil, not sin. Sin is evil, but evil is not sin. Evil was created as a possibility, man actualizes that possibility into a reality.

Actually Isaiah doesn't reveal God created evil at all, the translation you read may have the word evil as the translation of Ra' (pronounced Rah) but the word can mean many things. The NASB translates the word Ra' as calamity.

Puppets don't have to be forced. They don't resist, having no will.

Actually a puppet natural state is limp so it must be forced to move.

Having a will doesn't make you human. Robots have wills. They are created along with the robot. It is a flawed analogy using inadequate definitions to make an emotional appeal. Our egos are so attached to us, they think they ARE us.

I use the term free will you twist what I am saying by only using the word will and totally ignoring the free part. Robots do not have free will. Your reply is poorly thought out, weak, and really doesn't justify the time it took you to post it.

 

[98cwitr]

You do understand the world is inclusive of everybody?

Not in the context of the verse. No.

 

[98cwitr]

Actually Isaiah doesn't reveal God created evil at all, the translation you read may have the word evil as the translation of Ra' (pronounced Rah) but the word can mean many things. The NASB translates the word Ra' as calamity.
Actually a puppet natural state is limp so it must be forced to move.
I use the term free will you twist what I am saying by only using the word will and totally ignoring the free part. Robots do not have free will. Your reply is poorly thought out, weak, and really doesn't justify the time it took you to post it.

Why are you quoting me in things I didn't say?

 

[98cwitr]

Where did I say that we should only preach to the saved? Because there is no way of knowing for sure who is saved or who isn't truly saved because only God knows our hearts. So here again we are told the teach ALL the world including the unsaved that chose hell over heaven....

Matthew 28:18-201599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
18 And Jesus came, and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me, in heaven, and in earth.
19 Go therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the holy Ghost,
20 Teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, until the end of the world, Amen.

So here again we are told all the world is to be taught the Good News.

Agreed. I already said we should preach the Word to all!

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Not in the context of the verse. No.

Then perhaps you should read it again because I gave a similar verse that backs it up.

 

[98cwitr]

See reply in #209

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

See reply in #209

Your argument is that Christ didn't die for all the world which is unsaved but the fact is we all were unsaved at one time.

 

[98cwitr]

Your argument is that Christ didn't die for all the world which is unsaved but the fact is we all were unsaved at one time.

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

were = past tense.

Are you a sinner? Or "were" you a sinner?

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

were = past tense.

Are you a sinner? Or "were" you a sinner?

Yes I'm still a sinner saved by grace. And yes Christ died for my sin's of the past, present and future.

 

[Rick Otto]

Sorry but when the world is mentioned it is inclusive of everybody.

Sorry, but everybody doesn't always mean every I individual.
When "the world" is mentioned, it is talking about everyone who is not of Israel, not every individual.

 

[Rick Otto]

You do understand the world is inclusive of everybody?

You need to understand the world is a reference to gentiles, not individuals.

 

[98cwitr]

Yes I'm still a sinner saved by grace. And yes Christ died for my sin's of the past, present and future.

1 John 3:6-9
1 John 5:18
Hebrews 10:26

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Sorry, but everybody doesn't always mean every I individual.
When "the world" is mentioned, it is talking about everyone who is not of Israel, not every individual.

So then who are the messianic Jews? It's a rhetorical question. Funny how liberals love to redefine words isn't it?

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

1 John 3:6-9
1 John 5:18
Hebrews 10:26

1 John 1:8 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
10 If we say, we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[98cwitr]

1 John 1:8 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
10 If we say, we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Either we have a contradiction...or John is saying that those who say they are coming to Christ with no sin are false. Which is it?

"Christ has died for your sin!"

"I have no sin to die for!"

^^^lies.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

You need to understand the world is a reference to gentiles, not individuals.

You need to understand your claim/opinion is unbiblical and even the actual definition proves your error.