Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[BobRyan]

To be fair the statement made in that previous post is not unique to Bible-Sabbath keeping Christians - in fact even pro-Sunday authorities admit to those basic Bible facts about God's continued TEN Commandments.

Such as --

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[BobRyan]

The OT shows that the ten commandments were to
Israel/the Hebrews.

Jer 31:31-33 says the NEW Covenant is with the "House of Israel and the House of Judah" -- the people of God.
Heb 8:6-10 says the NEW Covenant is STILL with the "house of Israel and the house of Judah" -- the people of God.

Romans 2 say "HE is not a Jew who is one OUTWARDLY but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY" -- the people of God.

Rom 2
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Is 66:23 the Sabbath is for "ALL MANKIND" according to the text.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made FOR MANKIND not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" speaking of Creation WEEK - Bible Sabbath.

Those who "imagine" that not-taking God's name in vain -- (A commandment never quoted in the NT) is not for Christians - have imagined a vain thing.

For all eternity - after the cross -

Is 66:23 " FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[BobRyan]

Eph 6:2 - WHAT unit of LAW has the 5th Commandment as "the FIRST Commandment With a promise"?

For all eternity - after the cross -

Is 66:23 " FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"

Israel the people of God - are part of "mankind"

Jer 31:31-33 says the NEW Covenant is with the "House of Israel and the House of Judah" -- the people of God.
Heb 8:6-10 says the NEW Covenant is STILL with the "house of Israel and the house of Judah" -- the people of God.

Romans 2 say "HE is not a Jew who is one OUTWARDLY but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY" -- the people of God.

Exodus 31:12
"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
v13
"Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying,
Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign
between me and you throughout your gener-
ations..."

The Lev 23 annual feast day Sabbaths are just for Jews.

 

[BobRyan]

James 2 says that the binding authority of the Commandments of God is based on "HE who said" for Christians.

 

[BobRyan]

In your opinion is Christ's doctrine "in error" in Mark 7??

Mark 7:6-13 -- this is what Jesus taught about those trying to delete/downsize/edit one of the TEN Commandments.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[BobRyan]

Is it your claim that we need to be in rebellion against the Word of God??

 

[Bob S]

Satan is the "accuser of the brethren" in Rev 12.

In your efforts to "make stuff up" --- you knew that ... right?

Answer my post if I am making stuff up. Explain to all who read these posts where I am an accuser. Your prophet wrote it and I merely paste it word for word. As far as "keeping Sabbath is concerned, no one has ever kept it, so don't act pious and ask everyone else to do what you have not.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Satan is the "accuser of the brethren" in Rev 12.

In your efforts to "make stuff up" --- you knew that ... right?

So when you accuse us of stuff then you are being "Satan"?

 

[BobRyan]

Failure to Apply Reproof to Oneself—Do not appeal to your own sympathies. Do not dwell upon what Brother J has done or has neglected to do. Humble your own heart before God. You are not to sit in judgment upon the case of others until you show greater wisdom in making straight paths for your own feet. You may say, “Does Sister White think me all bad?” No, I do not; but one blot upon the character, one sin unconfessed and unrepented of, will close for you the gates of the city of God. You had light; you had knowledge, but did not choose to appropriate it. It meant someone else, not you. I love your soul, and I beseech you not to be deceived, but to see that you must follow the Lord with undivided heart. {12MR 40.3}

Do you really believe that?

Do you know what a letter is - when it is written to an individual???

 

[BobRyan]

Oh wait a minute!

Here is the actual subject of this thread.

hmmm it comes from the "OP"

========================================================

Are God's Ten Commandments still valid ??

That is the primary question to be answered on this section of the board.

And the irrefutable response from scripture is ... "yes".

========================

Here we have the NT text providing examples from the TEN Commandments -- affirming them as "still" valid.

And of course scripture is -- true.

=========================

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19


Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Note Paul says in Romans 3 that this is the Law that defines sin and condemns the entire world as sinners... that would not be "the Law about Passover". That does not condemn gentiles at all.
.
...

The context in Romans 3 is not Psalms but rather the LAW that condemns all mankind under sin.

Which I think even you will admit is not simply the Psalms - but the TEN Commandments written on stone the "LAW of death" as Paul calls it in 2Cor 3.

2 Cor 3
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away ==============================

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets" a term that specifies all of OT "scripture")

Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it."

Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

==========================================

Now this is a surprising turn of events - a return to the actual subject of the thread!!

 

[BobRyan]

Now as we continue to return from derailment back to "The actual subject" of this thread - we come to post #3.

============================

Ok that is all well and good - but the thread title says that these obvious pro-Ten Commandment facts in the Bible are also affirmed by pro-Sunday scholarship.

How can that possibly be?

First a summary of the pro-Sunday scholarship statements affirming the TEN Commandments.

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.


BobRyan said: ↑
For example Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II -


The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 the following:

====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".

page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

==================================== begin expanded quote
(from "The Faith Explained" page 243
we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day that was the law as God gave it ... 'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident ..

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday. That is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

 

[bugkiller]

James 2 says that the binding authority of the Commandments of God is based on "HE who said" for Christians.

huh?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

In your opinion is Christ's doctrine "in error" in Mark 7??

Mark 7:6-13 -- this is what Jesus taught about those trying to delete/downsize/edit one of the TEN Commandments.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

Just repeated spam.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Is it your claim that we need to be in rebellion against the Word of God??

Is it your claim there's no such thing as a New Covenant and we're obligated to the law?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Now as we continue to return from derailment back to "The actual subject" of this thread - we come to post #3.

============================

Ok that is all well and good - but the thread title says that these obvious pro-Ten Commandment facts in the Bible are also affirmed by pro-Sunday scholarship.

How can that possibly be?

First a summary of the pro-Sunday scholarship statements affirming the TEN Commandments.

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.


BobRyan said: ↑
For example Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II -


The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 the following:

====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".

page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

==================================== begin expanded quote
(from "The Faith Explained" page 243
we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day that was the law as God gave it ... 'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident ..

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday. That is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

Awe Bob.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Just repeated spam.

bugkiller

avoiding the Bible - by calling it "spam" is not a tactic used even in the dark ages against Protestants. It is newer than that.

In the case above the effort to get the thread back on topic is being attacked in favor of derailing the thread.

 

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT

Please do not flame or goad each other.

If your post is missing it's for this reason.

 

[vinsight4u]

/