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There is no evidence againts the Theory of Evolution.

Paul of Eugene OR

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No one has any problem with what they call: "micro" evolution. The issue is when they use the evidence for micro evolution and try to claim "macro" evolution and the evidence simply does not support that.

Macro evolution is just micro evolution added to micro evolution.
 
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twob4me

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There has been a small clean up done in this thread and it's possible a further cleaning will take place. Please STOP with the Flaming!!! You are to be addressing the content of a post NOT the poster personally. If you continue to post like you were this thread can and will be closed permanently and those involved may find themselves with staff actions.

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Hoghead1

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You can manufacture any god for yourself that you like, but that is called idolatry. It does actually matter whether or not you worship exists, and whilst there my be no guarantee that the God of the Bible exists, or that any God exists at all, what is guaranteed is that a god you pull out of your own head exists nowhere, except inside that head.
Too simplistic. I and other theologians are not others pulling something out of our heads. A lot of thought goes into how I view God. I take into account that nature of reality. If someone comes to me with a model of God that really doesn't seem to fit the facts, then I would take it as too unrealistic and reject it. I take into account reason. Is the model of God consistent? One of the reasons I reject the classical model is that I find it contradictory. I take into account perfection and beauty. The Greeks enshrined the immune and the immutable. Hence, classical Christianity argued God was wholly immutable, void of emotion, even compassion. I challenge that notion. There is also perfection in having emotion and being sensitive and deeply moved by others. It makes sense to me that if we are going to have a beautiful relationship with God, then God must be both alike and different from us. Beauty demands uniformity in diversity. I take into account revelation and mystical experiences. Since you are obviously not too familiar with the contemporary neo-classical model of God, your judgment that it is all idolatry appears premature. Also, you have to remember we are all human beings, have to think in terms of human thought. So just about anything and that anyone would say about God one way or the other is a product of human thought. Writing off something as idolatrous because it is based on human thought is ridiculous. That would kill anything anyone has to say.
 
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Hoghead1

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No one has any problem with what they call: "micro" evolution. The issue is when they use the evidence for micro evolution and try to claim "macro" evolution and the evidence simply does not support that.
The distinction between "micro-" and "macro-" evolution is something that creation-science people and other religious fundamentalists have cooked up. It has absolute no validity in the real world of science. The reason is that it assumes an arbitrary stopping point beyond which the evolutionary process cannot proceed. But that is like assuming the laws of physics stop at your stove. It's nonsense. In science, natural laws apply everywhere, in all spaces. Hence, the evolutionary process des extend to the "spaces" between the species as well. Also, you are incorrect. Macro-evolution has been directly observed in the bab, for example. Also, it is the best explanation for the hard evidence. For example, AR Russell, a colleague of Darwin, spend years collecting and classifying specimens in the jungles. He pointed out that if you line up two different species of insects , for example, and compare them , there is no hard-and-fast dividing line between where one stops and the other begins. This point is very obvious if you take a look as his specimens sometime. So, unless you could somehow conclusively prove that there is a real stopping point, it is illogical to assume micro-evolution is not part of macro-evolution.
 
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AV1611VET

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The distinction between "micro-" and "macro-" evolution is something that creation-science people and other religious fundamentalists have cooked up.
Fair enough.

I propose we call it "adaptation" then, and just tell "evolution" to take a hike.

Would that help you undersand it better from our perspective?
 
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Subduction Zone

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Fair enough.

I propose we call it "adaptation" then, and just tell "evolution" to take a hike.

Would that help you undersand it better from our perspective?
Either way you would still be demonstrably wrong. And rather hypocritcal too since you use the products of evolutionary science every day.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Fair enough.

I propose we call it "adaptation" then, and just tell "evolution" to take a hike.

Would that help you undersand it better from our perspective?

We understand your perspective already... lacking facts, you argue semantics.
 
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AV1611VET

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Either way you would still be demonstrably wrong.
Anyone can connect dots on a paper and say they've demonstrated it.

Macroevolution is nothing more than a game of connect the dots.

Since they can't be connected in a lab, they have to be connected on paper.

Here's my favorite example:

 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Anyone can connect dots on a paper and say they've demonstrated it.

Macroevolution is nothing more than a game of connect the dots.

Since they can't be connected in a lab, they have to be connected on paper.

Here's my favorite example:


And yet you possess, like all of us, vestiges that are evidence of descent from previous species that had the full fledged organ. Ear wiggling muscles, utterly useless to us humans, evidence of ancestral species that could turn their ears towards sound. The coccyx . . . evidence of ancestral species that sported a tail. Toes on your feet that you do not use. An appendix that is so reduced as to have only minor usages for the immune system.

And we are not alone. Every species has them.
 
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AV1611VET

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And yet you possess, like all of us, vestiges that are evidence of descent from previous species that had the full fledged organ.
You have these "previous species" and full-fledged organs, do you?

I mean ... besides ... just on paper.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Subduction Zone

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Anyone can connect dots on a paper and say they've demonstrated it.

Macroevolution is nothing more than a game of connect the dots.

Since they can't be connected in a lab, they have to be connected on paper.

Here's my favorite example:



AV, you know that it is much more than "connect the dots". The theory of evolution is the only explanation out there for life. And I am sorry, but I have been staying at my mother's house since she broke her hip. She is getting much better and I should be returning home soon. But right now with the dinosaur of a computer that she has all I can see is a blank space. That is probably ironically accurate because you probably have nothing anyway.
 
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Herman Hedning

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Anyone can connect dots on a paper and say they've demonstrated it.

Macroevolution is nothing more than a game of connect the dots.

Since they can't be connected in a lab, they have to be connected on paper.

But you have no problem with evidence of God being presented on paper, right?
 
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AV1611VET

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AV, you know that it is much more than "connect the dots". The theory of evolution is the only explanation out there for life. And I am sorry, but I have been staying at my mother's house since she broke her hip. She is getting much better and I should be returning home soon. But right now with the dinosaur of a computer that she has all I can see is a blank space. That is probably ironically accurate because you probably have nothing anyway.
Praying for your mom at this time.
 
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AV1611VET

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But you have no problem with evidence of God being presented on paper, right?
It goes beyond paper.

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
 
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Jimmy D

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It goes beyond paper.

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

No, still paper!
 
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AV1611VET

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No, still paper!
Hmmm.

When my wife hugs me, I tell her it's just skin, cloth and a little pressure being applied to me.

Am I supposed to take that as a sign of affection?

:doh:
 
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Subduction Zone

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Praying for your mom at this time.

Though it will not make any difference I do thank you for the positive thoughts.

You could pray that she learns how to use the computer and that she buys a new one.

On a serious note it is amazing how quickly the medical profession reacts to broken hips these days. She fell out of bed at about midnight and in less than 12 hours she was in the operating room getting a new hip. They have found that putting in new hips immediately and getting people back on their feet as rapidly as possible is the best way to avoid serious complications. They actually had her standing for a short period after she had her new hip put in, on that day!
 
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