Why do Christians have trouble with accepting Evolution?

[BobRyan]

If your opinion cannot be validated with the Scriptures, then your opinion has no value.

Your inability to produce Scripture to support your premise validates my opinion.


Since no Christian believes his Bible to be false, then evolution must be false.

Reality? Reality is that the OP asks a question why Christians have trouble supporting the lie of evolution of the truth of God's word. The answer is pretty obvious. Evolution is a lie.

You have no understanding of the real world. If you did, you would know that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. You would know that the Creator of the universe is Lord of the universe. His word is truth; not man's.

We cannot expect atheists such as the one you respond to in that example - to rely on scripture -- as I am sure you will agree.

What is "helpful" is that the atheists will very often admit that the Bible is clearly contradicting evolutionism in its God-ordained doctrine on origins of the form

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

pretty hard to for atheist evolutionist to claim that this Ex 20:11 "legal code" is just another way to say "yeah-- evolutionism that is how it all happened. That is how all life got here".


Gen 1
24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

One period of dark and light... one rotation of the planet -- the 6th day - and ALL animal life on earth on land - including humans - fully created.

pretty hard to for atheist evolutionist to claim that this Genesis 1 statement is just another way to say "yeah-- evolutionism that is how it all happened. That is how all life got here".

 

[Julie.S]

But it matters whether one chooses heaven or hell.

AND Darwin, Dawkins, Meyers et al. claim that evolutionism drove them off a cliff - though they began as Christians.

Here is a recent "victim" - a T.E. pleading for "help".

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Here's my problem, I believe in evolution, and it brings up doubts especially in the OT... were the OT writers simply writing what they "thought" and the way they "felt" about God, and not in an actual words God actually said..

Well, my problem is I believe the scientific evidence which casts doubt on some of the Bible writers, BUT, I have too much personal experiencial evidence of a God and other spirits existing on another side beside this one...

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...periencing-part-of-a-pm-conversation.7843548/

My personal experiencial evidence stands on it's very own as enough proof for me, but have I encountered the same God (YHWH) spoke about in the OT, some OT acts and verses by God cast a shadow of a doubt on him being a or the God of Love...

Anyone help?

God Bless!
===================================================

And of course that thread started by our poor pleading T.E. friend - is ultimately swamped by atheist and agnostic posts of the form "all-praise-evolution". Not too surprising that atheists don't really care if our poor T.E. friend is driven to reject the Bible - by his faith in evolutionism.

But what is more surprising is that some of the same T.E. posters here on the thread you are on -- also contribute to that thread once the atheists take over - and they too merely have the same "all-praise-evolution" focus -- find the "Cause" of uplifting blind-faith evolutionism of far more "Value" than helping some one not reject the Bible, than helping a T.E. avoid the lake of fire in Rev 20.

Now your question seems to be 'why should it matter'. Are you asking that question in this larger context?

how do you value the worth of a human soul? ... above blind faith in evolutionism or ...?



I believe everyone has free will, can choose as they wish... Adam and Eve certainly did.

At the same time - I prefer to see the evolutionists not be stuck in the pit that we see that T.E. poster in the example demonstrating for us - and so also Darwin demonstrating for us... and so also Dawkins.. and so also Meyers... and so also a host of atheists over on the other boards - claiming that most of them started out as Christians.

i.e. - the real world we live in.




Might you lose a few minutes of sleep - if God revealed to you that you were complicit in their downward course? That you were working for the forces of darkness by declaring to them that the Bible is not to be taken seriously???



I have no problem with presenting truth to people and then letting them choose light or darkness as they wish.

Strangely enough God has helped me a lot in my choices so far as much as I can tell. If I somehow made someone spiral down well that's sad yeah but we all need to learn to pick ourselves up and continue on when we fall and get back on track.

I also do not go around talking about the Bible to other people much so this does not have much of an impact on me sorry. I only talk about this stuff on forums not the real world.

 

[BobRyan]

1. Are you familiar with the concept of homologous chromosomes???

Then you already know that amoeba==> rabbit stories are utter foolishness -- no matter "how long the sufficiently long period of time filled with just-so stories".

I "know" no such thing.

That's pretty sad.

2. Are you inclined to argue that your belief in evolutionism is rightly stated as "FOR in SIX days the LORD created the heavens and the earth the seas and all that is in them ... and rested the 7th day" Ex 20:11 ???

No.

Some here are arguing that such a statement is the very opposite of evolutionism's claim and is never the way that evolution is described. -- so then you agree that the Bible does not proclaim evolutionism?

Agreed!

We find agreement on that one point.



=================================
3. Are you familiar with the "pile of dirt will sure enough turn into a horse over time - given a sufficiently large pile of dirt and a sufficiently long period of time filled with just-so stories" form of evolution? Or do you insist that God came here and scattered amoebas around to get things started?


No answer?? Is this the part where you tell us that the there was something way more than 'matter' -- than a "pile of dirt" as the starting point??? this should be good.

===========================================

4. Would you agree that atheist evolutionism is the worst of all options because it has the worst hole-in-ground "upside" and it has the worst Revelation 20 "downside"?

No.

On the contrary - I just proved that it is the worst option.[/quote]


=======================================


To your number 3:

The theory of evolution makes no comment on the origins of life. It is concerned with the descent of species.
[/QUOTE]

Number 3 -- I give you the "non atheist" option of claiming "God did it" helping you out so you can get that "pile of dirt" to be a bit less daunting. But to be honest - - you must admit that as atheist you have to go with "pile of dirt will sure enough turn into a horse over time..." rather than "God planted amoebas on earth - the first eukarytoes and then all life evolved from that".

See it again --

3. Are you familiar with the "pile of dirt will sure enough turn into a horse over time - given a sufficiently large pile of dirt and a sufficiently long period of time filled with just-so stories" form of evolution? Or do you insist that God came here and scattered amoebas around to get things started?

The T.E.'s here DO have that second option - but as a "purist" - as an "atheist evolutionist" you don't.

There is no other Atheist "start" from that big bang onward - to the accretion disk of the solar system from which earth was formed -- right to the rabbit and sure-enough "horse" -- given a sufficiently large pile of dirt and a sufficiently long period of time.

And we all know it.

 

[BobRyan]

Strangely enough God has helped me a lot in my choices so far as much as I can tell.

Nice. Perhaps He is helping you "yet again" with this "pile of dirt will sure enough turn into a rabbit over time -- given a sufficiently large pile of dirt and a sufficiently long period of time - filled with very unlikely just-so-stories" -- mythology.

If I somehow made someone spiral down well that's sad yeah but we all need to learn to pick ourselves up and continue on

Hence the efforts to help people out of that pit.

Your efforts to point people to "light" rather than darkness - include your family, friends, members of your church - your sunday school class -- etc.

This is a teachable moment provided by this thread.

Notice that we have an atheist here and also a number of T.E.'s notice that they respond pretty much the same to these "cries for help" that come to us from T.E's that suddenly realize what Darwin himself realized - which is that the religion of evolutionism does not fit with the Bible doctrine on origins.

The Genesis 1-2:3 Bible doctrine on origins has all the "kinds" of land animals created immediately on day 6 - fully formed mature and capable of independence - including two humans... Adam and Eve -- and in the Bible version the animals ate vegetation - not each other... day 1 of their life.

There is no way to "Call that evolution" there is no way to marry darwinism to it - and this is soooo obvious that eventually Darwin himself figured it out.

 

[Julie.S]

Nice. Perhaps He is helping you "yet again" with this "pile of dirt will sure enough turn into a rabbit over time -- given a sufficiently large pile of dirt and a sufficiently long period of time - filled with very unlikely just-so-stories" -- mythology.

Are you referring to Spontaneous Generation there?^
That there made no sense sorry. Dirt can help things grow that are plant like in nature or allow things to live inside said dirt. I could say a lot of stuff in the same way that was said up there but I will not.

I'm sorry if me not believing what you are saying bothers you.
I think I might just leave this as it is.

Have a good day!

 

[ViaCrucis]

how many other places do you choose man-made-fiction to the Bible?

World wide flood?

Virgin birth?

Bodily resurrection and ascension of Christ into heaven?

Miracles of the Bible?

The Real Presence in the Eucharist.

The first day of the week being the day Christians gathered together for worship and the Lord's Supper.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[stephen583]

The truth does not reside with the internet, the Discovery Channel, or books on evolution.

We live in the real world. That is where your children are escaping to in droves.

 

[stephen583]

No, but plenty of polling organisations have. In the USA, approximately 70% of citizens identify as Christian. Additionally, around 46% of citizens accept the theory of evolution, whether they think it 'guided by God' or not.

According to a 2015 Harris Poll, fifty percent of people in America identifying themselves as Jewish, no longer believe in God.

 

[BobRyan]

Dodging the question i see. So you will assert that Toe doesn't contradict Genesis or any scripture, but then you assert that the red sea miracle was just a fictional story? You seem to prove that ToE does contradict scripture.

This is a good point - if the Bible is all fiction - then how could the stories found in evolutionism mythology contradict it??

What atheist would not be satisfied with that arrangement.

Perhaps Darwin figured this out as well.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

How utterly sad that people put their belief in something that is admittedly variable and ever changing.... whereas the Bible has never changed... I think I'll stick with the solid , reliable source, thank you.

Of course the bible has changed. There was a time when it was still accumulating, for example. If you want to make valid points, you should learn to make valid statements.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

This is a good point - if the Bible is all fiction - then how could the stories found in evolutionism mythology contradict it??

What atheist would not be satisfied with that arrangement.

Perhaps Darwin figured this out as well.

We will all agree that the way you interpret the Bible is contradicted by the discovery of evolution.

 

[BobRyan]

According to a 2015 Harris Poll, fifty percent of people in America identifying themselves as Jewish, no longer believe in God.

Indeed there is a growing trend for atheism which is that "belief in" evolutionism is one of the keys to getting to atheism - just as Darwin experienced using belief in evolutionism to destroy his affirmation of Christianity.

=========================

from - http://www.conservapedia.com/Essay:_10_reasons_why_American_atheism_will_see_a_significant_decline

1. Global atheism is shrinking and demographic changes in the United States and the world are expected to shrink the influence of American secularism.[3][4][5]

In 2012, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary reported that globally every day there are 800 less atheists per day, 1,100 less non-religious (agnostic) people per day and 83,000 more people professing to be Christians per day.[6][7]

 

[jlhbr100]

The Genesis 1-2:3 Bible doctrine on origins has all the "kinds" of land animals created immediately on day 6 - fully formed mature and capable of independence - including two humans... Adam and Eve -- and in the Bible version the animals ate vegetation - not each other... day 1 of their life.

Fully formed animals of all types would have to mean that there were animals in the Garden with teeth and a digestive system that are only geared towards eating meat. How did carnivorous animals eat vegetation? Or do you think they adapted after the Fall?

 

[BobRyan]

One of the keys to promoting "belief in" evolutionism is - alternate reality - while "avoiding inconvenient details" .

For example -- what is the "reality" when it comes to what the Bible says about creation -- and the doctrine on origins?

Wake up call -- Those who argue that only mean ol "Bible believing Christians" would think Genesis is talking about a 7 day creation week... think again.

consider what happens when you look at "the kind of literature that it is" when it comes to the Genesis account

Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that: (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark. Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’

=======================

That is the opinion of professors not at all inclined to accept the 7 day creation week that we find in Gen 1:2-2:3 yet they can still 'read' and point to the author's intent - whether they agree with the author or not.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

now what if we could gloss over all that "reality" and spin a 'story' of the form -- "That is just the way BobRyan reads the Bible"

We will all agree that the way you interpret the Bible is contradicted by the discovery of evolution.

See - how easy that was to "suggest" alternate reality - then pretend that merely suggesting it - turns it INTO documented fact -- "real life"??

 

[BobRyan]

If your opinion cannot be validated with the Scriptures, then your opinion has no value.

Your inability to produce Scripture to support your premise validates my opinion.


Since no Christian believes his Bible to be false, then evolution must be false.

Reality? Reality is that the OP asks a question why Christians have trouble supporting the lie of evolution of the truth of God's word. The answer is pretty obvious. Evolution is a lie.

You have no understanding of the real world. If you did, you would know that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. You would know that the Creator of the universe is Lord of the universe. His word is truth; not man's.

We cannot expect atheists such as the one you respond to in that example - to rely on scripture -- as I am sure you will agree.

What is "helpful" is that the atheists will very often admit that the Bible is clearly contradicting evolutionism in its God-ordained doctrine on origins of the form

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

pretty hard to for atheist evolutionist to claim that this Ex 20:11 "legal code" is just another way to say "yeah-- evolutionism that is how it all happened. That is how all life got here".


Gen 1
24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

One period of dark and light... one rotation of the planet -- the 6th day - and ALL animal life on earth on land - including humans - fully created.

pretty hard to for atheist evolutionist to claim that this Genesis 1 statement is just another way to say "yeah-- evolutionism that is how it all happened. That is how all life got here".

We will all agree that the way you interpret the Bible is contradicted by the discovery of evolution.

On the contrary - the mere quote of the verse is sufficient cause to give rise to your objection to it.

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

pretty hard to for atheist evolutionist to claim that this Ex 20:11 "legal code" is just another way to say "yeah-- evolutionism that is how it all happened. That is how all life got here".

That is irrefutable

 

[stephen583]

How utterly sad that people put their belief in something that is admittedly variable and ever changing.... whereas the Bible has never changed...

Not True. The Bible is one of the most edited and changed books that has ever existed. There are literally dozens of different versions of the Bible. Entire books of the Bible have been eliminated and discarded as Apocrapha by various Christian sects. Other (so called Christian sects), have invented and added their own Apocrapha to the Bible. So what Bible exactly are you referring to that has never been changed by man ???

 

[BobRyan]

This is a teachable moment provided by this thread.

Notice that we have an atheist here and also a number of T.E.'s notice that they respond pretty much the same to these "cries for help" that come to us from T.E's that suddenly realize what Darwin himself realized - which is that the religion of evolutionism does not fit with the Bible doctrine on origins.

The Genesis 1-2:3 Bible doctrine on origins has all the "kinds" of land animals created immediately on day 6 - fully formed mature and capable of independence - including two humans... Adam and Eve -- and in the Bible version the animals ate vegetation - not each other... day 1 of their life.

There is no way to "Call that evolution" there is no way to marry darwinism to it - and this is soooo obvious that eventually Darwin himself figured it out.

Fully formed animals of all types would have to mean that there were animals in the Garden with teeth and a digestive system

Like the Panda -- teeth, claws --- vegetarian.

that are only geared towards eating meat.

Turns out the Panda is not "only geared towards eating meat".

Also - experiments have shown that the digestive tract length of animals changes depending on whether they have animal or vegetable protein in their diet.

But that is not "exegesis" as we both know.

You cannot "change what the Bible says" simply because you "prefer not to believe it" or "have not read the material on how epigenome changes phenotype attributes".

This point is ... irrefutable.

Kea Parrot switches from vegetarian to red meat diet -- and then back again.

from - http://creation.com/Air-attack

 

[BobRyan]

Not True. The Bible is one of the most edited and changed books that has ever existed. There are literally dozens of different versions of the Bible. Entire books of the Bible have been eliminated and discarded as Apocrapha by various sects. Other sects have invented and added their own Apocrapha to the Bible. So what Bible exactly are you referring to that has never been changed by man ???

If two guys in a garrage next door add a chapter to their two Bibles -- it does not mean the Bible "changed".

It is irrefutable that the Catholic and Protestant AND the Evangelical Bibles ALL contain the same 27 books for the NT and ALL contain the same 39 books in the OT.

IT is irrefutable that Jerome who translated the Vulgate -- explicitly stated that the apocrypha was not part of OT or NT - was not canonical. (Hint - how many apocryphas in Bibles before the Vulgate?)

 

[stephen583]

I don't have any problem with evolution. It is stated unequivocally in the Bible. Science maintains that life began in the primordial oceans of the earth, and that's exactly where the Bible says life began, (Genesis 1:20). The Bible also says that creatures were later brought forth by the earth, (Genesis 1:24). I don't see where the inconsistency is ?! Except for religionists who insist some inconsistency must necessarily exist.

 

[stephen583]

If two guys in a garrage next door add a chapter to their two Bibles -- it does not mean the Bible "changed".

Just look at the passage in the KJV version of the Bible "And God created the great whales" (Genesis 1:21). In the original Hebrew those words appear as "God created the terrible creatures in the sea". In various other transliterations of the Bible, the phrase appears as "great and terrible sea creatures, sea monsters and so forth" (ASV, ISV, ect. ect.).

Well we pretty much recognize today great whales are neither terrible nor monstrous creatures, don't we ?! But that's what they had when they wrote the King James Version, so that's what ended up in that particular version as the Word of God. Nobody back then knew anything about pleisiasaurs or kronosaurs, or any other kind of extinct marine reptiles.

In fact, I find it quite interesting the Bible mentions these "terrible and monstrous" marine reptiles in the same passage with the creation of "every winged fowl", (Genesis 1:21). As dinosaurs are today separated into one of two major categories "Avian" and "Non-Avian" Dinosaurs. Dinosaurs that share anatomical similarities with birds and those that don't.

Has the wording of the Bible ever been changed ?! Are you kidding me ???