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LDS Why do Mormons think all Christians are in apostasy?

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Ironhold

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I think we can all agree that within every religion on earth there are those who are not up to date on every point within their religion's history.

The matter becomes quite galling, however, when the same people who can't explain even basic Christian concepts can somehow recite anti-_____ material nearly verbatim and are more familiar with one or more counter-cult authors than they are the Bible.

That, to me at least, raises questions about what their religious environment is when a higher value is placed on sectarian strife than on ensuring basic education.
 
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tickingclocker

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I feel so deeply sorry for those who are taught they cannot depend upon God's Word for life, but must accept every word that Joseph Smith uttered as Gospel instead.

I don't accept every word Joseph Smith uttered any more than I accept every word Paul uttered as "Gospel",

1 Corinthians 11:15
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

I cut my hair ever so often, it's curly and obeys no master.

JS wrote what mormonism is. Without his opinions, mormonism falls apart. If he had said he believed in the Trinity, the LDS and its branches would be Trinitarian today. But he changed his mind, claiming (eventually) that God is completely separate from Jesus Christ, and both are completely separate from the Holy Spirit. And please don't get into the Trinity. It's not what the intent is. Hopefully you understand that.

And I know that type of hair well, too! Tamed by a pixie.
 
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withwonderingawe

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One more insult and I'm closing this thread.

Oh please don't I nearly have my long awaited for apostasy thesis done, I'm doing some last min tinkering with it, got to make sure I spelled everything right.
 
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John Davidson

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The Hindu woman who learns to love and feed her neighbors will have as much opportunity to enter the Celestial Kingdom as I.

This statement seems rather suspect to me. From my understanding (concerning Mormon theology) faith in Jesus Christ and membership in the LDS church are only a couple of the requirements for entering the Celestial Kingdom. Your statement on the other hand bases everything on works and nullifies faith in the atonement.
 
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Ironhold

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One more insult and I'm closing this thread.

How, I ask, is anything I said an "insult"?

I have *legitimately* encountered mainline Christians who had an easier time reciting material hostile towards other groups than in reciting the theology of their own denomination.
 
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withwonderingawe

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This statement seems rather suspect to me. From my understanding (concerning Mormon theology) faith in Jesus Christ and membership in the LDS church are only a couple of the requirements for entering the Celestial Kingdom. Your statement on the other hand bases everything on works and nullifies faith in the atonement.

Well then you don't really understand Mormonism.

Hebrews 6:10
10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Several years ago an airplane landed in a river, many of the people ended up in ice cold water. A helicopter lowered a life line down to the first man who they expected to hang on as they pulled him to safety but instead he helped the woman next to him wrap the line around herself. He kept helping each person as the copter made several trips back and forth. When they finally went back to save him he had slipped below the freezing water and was gone.

For that selfless act of love that man will enter the Celestial Kingdom long before I do

But we don't all get a chance at great acts of heroism, instead we each plug along one day and one step at a time.

Salvation from sin is the free gift. We achieve this by following what Peter prescribed on the Day Of Pentecost

Acts 2
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for there mission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The prick in their hearts is the Holy Ghost moving upon them, they have faith. It moves them to act upon it and repent of their past sins. They are then given the gift of baptism and their sins are washed away. They are then given the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. (see also Acts 8 and 19)

At this point one has entered at the gate. He is sinless but of course not perfect, the narrow path lays in front of him and he will sin again and again.

We are now going through a sanctification process, humbly partaking of the sacrament and asking the Lord's forgiveness can reset that baptismal covenant, put us back on the path. It's a life long process of recognizing our weakness and asking the Lord to help us over come them. The Holy Ghost is there to prompted us to our knees. The idea is to cultivate Christ like love, you can have all the faith in the world, you can be baptized over and over again but if you have not charity you are nothing. If you want to call that works I suppose that is but we're striping off the old man one sin at a time. God's grace comes into play by the very fact we are incapable of seeking forgiveness for every single sin, what he is looking for is the "good and faithful servant" not the perfect one.

Our Heavenly Father is not an angry God looking forward to us failing but a loving Father cheering us on, his love is always there reaching out to us. Not all of us will be worthy of the Celestial Kingdom basically because we won't all want to be there, it will be a choice we make.

Each one of our Heavenly Father's children is loved deeply and they each will be judged by the amount of light and knowledge they received during their lives on this earth. The Hindu woman will be given the opportunity to hear the gospel in the spirit world, her baptism will be done vicariously and as she accepts the atonement of Christ she will be forgiven of her sins.
 
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ToBeLoved

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How, I ask, is anything I said an "insult"?

I have *legitimately* encountered mainline Christians who had an easier time reciting material hostile towards other groups than in reciting the theology of their own denomination.
This thread was started by me, the OP to talk about doctrine and the scriptures of each of our faiths. This sub-forum was fairly new (I believe). I truly wanted to find out answers about the Mormon faith.

I am now seeing posts (I'm not saying anyone in particular) that are damaging to my spiritual life and faith because my heart aches with each post I read. I can only share my feelings and my personal opinion. I am only writing this post because you asked me.

My prayer life is very good because each day I am praying for myself to be longsuffering, patient and to have a heart of forgiveness. But my feelings have not caught up to my prayers yet. I am extremely troubled (again no specifics, just general feelings).

The intention of why I started this thread, in learning more, is no longer seen in what I am reading.

I want to read a specific thesis, but realize through conversations i can do this. I do not need to keep this thread open to read it.
 
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John Davidson

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Well then you don't really understand Mormonism.

I have a good understanding of Mormonism. I checked the Gospel Principles manual and it states:

"Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple."

Page 272; Chapter 46

And it also states that those who inherit the celestial kingdom "received the testimony of Jesus Christ, and were baptized".

So you see this would disqualify a Hindu woman.
 
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withwonderingawe

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I have a good understanding of Mormonism. I checked the Gospel Principles manual and it states:

"Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple."

Page 272; Chapter 46

And it also states that those who inherit the celestial kingdom "received the testimony of Jesus Christ, and were baptized".

So you see this would disqualify a Hindu woman.

Yes but all of this will be done vicariously for those who had no opportunity during in this life.

Luke 20:38
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Rom 14:9
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

1Peter 3 &4
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;.....Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him....Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1 Cor 15
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death....And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Eph 1 & 3
"Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:....For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,..."
 
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John Davidson

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Yes but all of this will be done vicariously for those who had no opportunity during in this life.

So everyone who had no opportunity to receive the gospel in this life will have it forced on them in the afterlife?
 
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withwonderingawe

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So everyone who had no opportunity to receive the gospel in this life will have it forced on them in the afterlife?

God forces no man, the baptism can be rejected, not everyone is going to the Celestial Kingdom. Most will decide to go into the middle kingdom which is suppose to be a very lovely place while the Celestial Kingdom is a lot of work.
 
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John Davidson

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How, I ask, is anything I said an "insult"?

I have *legitimately* encountered mainline Christians who had an easier time reciting material hostile towards other groups than in reciting the theology of their own denomination.

Alright, mainline Christians are retarded and Mormons are geniuses.....you've established that.....
 
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Jane_Doe

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Alright, mainline Christians are retarded and Mormons are geniuses.....you've established that.....

Except that wasn't his point at all. His point is that it looks awfully strange when people claiming to be followers of Christ prioritize attacking other faiths over learning about Christ.
 
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Jane_Doe

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He makes that the point of the majority of his posts.

Are you talking about the point that there are Christians on here that are seemingly 100% devoted to "exposed the Mormon cult", and don't ever actually talk about Christ or the Good News?

Seems like a pretty valid point.
 
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John Davidson

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Are you talking about the point that there are Christians on here that are seemingly 100% devoted to "exposed the Mormon cult", and don't ever actually talk about Christ or the Good News?

Seems like a pretty valid point.


No, that's not what I was talking about.

I can't judge those Christians because maybe it is their ministry and calling to expose Mormonism as a false religion.
 
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