Witches, wizards and the occult

[MehGuy]

As a child I didn't know this and would chant 'we're off the see the wizard' like all the others. Well, God doesn't want us 'off to see the wizard' !!!!

The wizard is a charlatan! They all are. You see how insiduous it is.

Thanks for making me laugh.

 

[Noxot]

well if you don't have something higher to reach for you shall be stuck in the lower. to see only evil in a thing that could have potential good is to throw out the baby with the bath water. the nature of DNA shows us that it can say many different things all at once and so to strain out a gnat might mean you don't wear the camel hair that the prophets wore.

some people find it disgusting to eat locust and yet God said they are clean?

Lev 11:22 (YLT)
these of them ye do eat: the locust after its kind, and the bald locust after its kind, and the beetle after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind;

ummm ewww beetles? I mean, some of the palm grubs MIGHT be okay... ~gag~

but yeah if you feel you are loving God by rejecting such things then more power to you, may you grow closer towards the Lord and not go astray from the path he leads you on, unless he wants to to walk off the path, then you do that.

 

[Hawthorne]

She had to act like a young girl when she was 16 and the studios, MGM and her own mother put her on drugs to make her lose weight because she was too fat. Those drugs were addictiive (pharmokeopia..is one of those greek words that also mean SORCERY). Anyway she died at age 47 after long battle and intense suffering with those pills.

Not all chemical dependency is pharmakeia; only those whose goal is spiritual experience. In the Greek context, the pythia at Delphi inhaled vapours from the earth and consequently spoke in ecstasy; such utterances were deemed Apollo's message.

Clearly the oracle was under the influence of something and the use of drugs in religious rites is hardly isolated to ancient Greece.

It's difficult to find congress with spirits in a chemical reaction caused by the intake of too many weight-loss pills.

 

[Miss Spaulding]

.
Movies can cast spells on people. People DO become obsessed with the characters portrayed in them. I met this guy who was YEARS older than me, like 50 and he was still obssessed with Judy Garland, who played Dorothy in the movie. I didn't understand this obssession, I thought she was ok, but didn't know that much about her. Well she's a brilliant artist, BUT there is this whole dark side to her and what people these days don't know is she got into a lot of drugs and alcohol, directly as a result of this film. She had to act like a young girl when she was 16 and the studios, MGM and her own mother put her on drugs to make her lose weight because she was too fat. Those drugs were addictiive (pharmokeopia..is one of those greek words that also mean SORCERY). Anyway she died at age 47 after long battle and intense suffering with those pills.

Wrong.

Working on the specific film 'The Wizard of Oz' is not what turned Judy Garland to drugs and alcohol. The movie industry itself did and all the fame and attention that comes along with it. THAT is what set her on the path of destruction in regards to drugs and alcohol. Judy is simply one of hundreds of actors who led a tragic life throughout their film career as a result of the very career itself... It's a very tough life to be a famous and professional actor, and unfortunately it proves too tough for some. Sadly, Judy couldn't shake it.

I'm not going to claim that there aren't some people who may be negatively affected by certain films/shows (like The Wizard of Oz for example), but they are in the very small minority, and I will go even farther by saying that where they may be negatively affected, it's not because a 'spell' has been cast upon them. If that movie affects you in a way that you don't think is good, Goodbook, then fantastic if you want to cut it (and other films/shows) out of your life. But you really need to start evaluating just how wildly ridiculous some of your views are on this subject, and quite frankly, baselessly damning towards others.

You have the uncanny ability for throwing every person into the same sin-filled boat like I have never seen before, and it's wrong.

 

[Elliewaves]

I'm still waiting for an explanation of why tai chi is spiritually fine to engage in as fun.

 

[CCHIPSS]

God has shown me whats behind a lot of the entertainment books, movies and other media that I 'consumed' as a child. He didn't do it all at once, He dealt with the big things first, like, for example yoga and new age/psychic things.

Going as far back to the age of maybe 5 or 6, I was exposed to the movie 'Wizard of Oz' as a child and, because I was the target audience, was completely under its spell. I was fascinated, not with the 'wicked witch' but Dorothy, who is they said 'a good witch' although she's an ordinary girl, in the movie, she goes to a fortune teller and then all this weird stuff starts happening to her. She's not happy at home and wants to leave. She dreams of 'going over the rainbow' which in of it self is not a bad desire, but her unhappiness makes her seek the wrong things.

I definitely did idolise this movie at a young age as I thought it was cool that it changed from black and white to colour and Dorothy was my heroine. Although toto and the other characters were cute. What I didn't realise at the time was this story the movie was based on comes from occult theosophy. I found this out much later, after I became a christian.

Movies can cast spells on people. People DO become obsessed with the characters portrayed in them. I met this guy who was YEARS older than me, like 50 and he was still obssessed with Judy Garland, who played Dorothy in the movie. I didn't understand this obssession, I thought she was ok, but didn't know that much about her. Well she's a brilliant artist, BUT there is this whole dark side to her and what people these days don't know is she got into a lot of drugs and alcohol, directly as a result of this film. She had to act like a young girl when she was 16 and the studios, MGM and her own mother put her on drugs to make her lose weight because she was too fat. Those drugs were addictiive (pharmokeopia..is one of those greek words that also mean SORCERY). Anyway she died at age 47 after long battle and intense suffering with those pills.

I think it is more like we humans shouldn't idolize anyone or anything else other than God.

Take Judy Garland for example. It is wrong to idolize her. As you stated her "true" self turns out wicked and corrupted. She has drug and alcohol problems. She divorced 4 times and married 5 times. etc.

Another example is Andy Stanley. As many of you know I admire him and think many of the things he said is correct. However last month he talked about big church vs small church. That parents are wrong to stay in small churches that harms their kids. But what he said was totally wrong. Small churches do not always harm kids (some do, not all).

Now after listening to many of his sermons, I actually know what he "actually" meant. (And no you will not get this from just that 1 sermon of his.) He was actually talking about "dead" churches vs "alive" churches. There are both dead and alive churches of all sizes, so this isn't really size related (as what that sermon of his suggested).

Alive churches focus a lot on bring in non-believers and mentoring young believers to become mentors one day. Dead churches do not do outreach and do not mentor the young Christians. 90% of the church are elderly men and women, yet no one mentors the young. And in those situation yes the parents should take their kids away from a "dead" church and bring them to an "alive" church.

However if you just listen to that one sermons by Andy Stanley, he was totally wrong. Now he might not mean what he said. But at face value that message was very very wrong. It just goes to show that all humans are just humans, even the best of us. Everyone make mistakes. So we shouldn't idolize anyone, even other very good Christians. We are all sinners and we all need Jesus.

But once again it is far-fetched to claim that watching HP or LOTR will directly lead people into an occult cult. Now perhaps it does happen on a very small scale. But I doubt it will be enough to make such a claim. It is the same thing as people trying to link violence to violent video games.

 

[Cearbhall]

Well she's a brilliant artist, BUT there is this whole dark side to her and what people these days don't know is she got into a lot of drugs and alcohol, directly as a result of this film.

I wouldn't say that it was a direct result of that one movie, but I think most people know this...her death is probably one of the most famous premature ones in Hollywood. The industry still mourns what could have been.

 

[Noxot]

oh I think things can cast spells on people. we naturally fall into whatever we believe to be right or good. results will vary depending on your inner spiritual condition. the souls nature is that it is limited and being limited means you can be caught up in certain things, higher or lower. obviously the best 'thing' for a soul to be with is God. so being under a spell is to be under the deceptive lower spirits of the world in which the god of this world blinds the eyes of the ones who refuse the goodness of the truth, which is first and foremost a SPIRIT and not a mere outer/fleshly belief system that the spirit feeds us with which is called "bread". but man is not to live by bread alone, but by every word coming from the breath of the lips of God.

Spoiler: bible quotes

2 Peter 2:19 (YLT)
liberty to them promising, themselves being servants of the corruption, for by whom any one hath been overcome, to this one also he hath been brought to servitude,

Rev 18:20-24 (YLT)
`Be glad over her, O heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets, because God did judge your judgment of her!' And one strong messenger did take up a stone as a great millstone, and did cast it to the sea, saying, `Thus with violence shall Babylon be cast, the great city, and may not be found any more at all; and voice of harpers, and musicians, and pipers, and trumpeters, may not be heard at all in thee any more; and any artisan of any art may not be found at all in thee any more; and noise of a millstone may not be heard at all in thee any more; and light of a lamp may not shine at all in thee any more; and voice of bridegroom and of bride may not be heard at all in thee any more; because thy merchants were the great ones of the earth, because in thy sorcery were all the nations led astray, and in her blood of prophets and of saints was found, and of all those who have been slain on the earth.'


1 John 5:3-6 (YLT)
for this is the love of God, that His commands we may keep, and His commands are not burdensome; because every one who is begotten of God doth overcome the world, and this is the victory that did overcome the world--our faith; who is he who is overcoming the world, if not he who is believing that Jesus is the Son of God? This one is he who did come through water and blood--Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; and the Spirit it is that is testifying, because the Spirit is the truth,


Luke 12:39-40 (YLT)
`And this know, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief doth come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken through; and ye, then, become ye ready, because at the hour ye think not, the Son of Man doth come.'

Matt 12:28-30 (YLT)
`But if I, by the Spirit of God, do cast out the demons, then come already unto you did the reign of God. `Or how is one able to go into the house of the strong man, and to plunder his goods, if first he may not bind the strong man? and then his house he will plunder. `He who is not with me is against me, and he who is not gathering with me, doth scatter.

Luke 16:9-13 (YLT)
and I say to you, Make to yourselves friends out of the mammon of unrighteousness, that when ye may fail, they may receive you to the age-during tabernacles. `He who is faithful in the least, is also faithful in much; and he who in the least is unrighteous, is also unrighteous in much; if, then, in the unrighteous mammon ye became not faithful--the true who will entrust to you? and if in the other's ye became not faithful--your own, who shall give to you? `No domestic is able to serve two lords, for either the one he will hate, and the other he will love; or one he will hold to, and of the other he will be heedless; ye are not able to serve God and mammon.'

Col 2:14-17 (YLT)
having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross; having stripped the principalities and the authorities, he made a shew of them openly--having triumphed over them in it. Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body is of the Christ;

Eph 1:18-23 (YLT)
the eyes of your understanding being enlightened, for your knowing what is the hope of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what the exceeding greatness of His power to us who are believing, according to the working of the power of His might, which He wrought in the Christ, having raised him out of the dead, and did set him at His right hand in the heavenly places , far above all principality, and authority, and might, and lordship, and every name named, not only in this age, but also in the coming one; and all things He did put under his feet, and did give him--head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of Him who is filling the all in all,

Rev 2:17 (YLT)
He who is having an ear--let him hear what the Spirit saith to the assemblies: To him who is overcoming, I will give to him to eat from the hidden manna, and will give to him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, that no one knew except him who is receiving it .

1Cor 3:19-23 (YLT)
for the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it hath been written, `Who is taking the wise in their craftiness;' and again, `The Lord doth know the reasonings of the wise, that they are vain.' So then, let no one glory in men, for all things are yours, whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things about to be--all are yours, and ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's.

the Holy Spirit reveals a reality not seen by those who are not in the kingdom, though most of us do see in part.

 

[Goodbook]

Its not a farfetched claim, sorry, you just making an exception for things you are under the spell of. Ho and lotr are not that great, they just childish things people need to put away.

Really. Why keep arguing when you know God doesnt like it?

 

[Goodbook]

Another thing people get really riled up about is rock music and pop stars and think they not occult influenced either. Well they being naive about that one too.

 

[Goodbook]

CS lewis, I read actually was an atheist before he became a christian and did dabble in the occult, which is why he wrote lion witch and wardrobe and knew a lot about them...witches that is. In that book, its a witch not a wizard, thats the star of the story as it were.

I think to write something like that most people write about what they know, not things they make up. You cant say that witches and wizards arent real and completely made up out of peoples imaginations. They got the idea from somewhere and it wasnt God.

 

[Goodbook]

I think people are afraid to say that yes. Some people ARE witches and wizards. You can tell. In my previous workplace, I encountered many that were.

They did occult practices. Whether it was new age or channelling or visualization or reading horoscopes. Their belief system was, basically I am God. One of my english teachers was brlliant, he was a wizard, there was no other explanation for the spell he cast over students.
One of my former bosses, in fact most of them, obtained their positions of power through occult practises, one actually told me she did divination.

She would cast horoscopes over the people she employed. She told me that i was picked because i was a taurus. And also, she used crystals. She had this dowsing or pendulum that would help her make desicsions.

 

[Noxot]

I think that the biggest wizards and witches today are part of the church. and I mean, the people who keep promising that you will get rich and to give them money. funny how highly respected Christians are rich as hell and how everyone throws money at them and they act like they are not under a spell. then you wonder why people turn to things like astrology.

i'm ofc not talking trash about the rich and famous Christians that write books and make money that way.

but hey if you wanna make a business out of your church then so be it. it's what americans are used to. I hope those types do well and do pleasing things towards the Lord.

 

[keith99]

Another thing people get really riled up about is rock music and pop stars and think they not occult influenced either. Well they being naive about that one too.

Yes of course. My Stars and Stripes Forever and Circle albums by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band are obviously Satanic! One only has to look for all the 5 pointed stars on the original album covers! (Never mind that every single one is either on the Stars and stripes or stars and bars).

 

[CCHIPSS]

Its not a farfetched claim, sorry, you just making an exception for things you are under the spell of. Ho and lotr are not that great, they just childish things people need to put away.

Really. Why keep arguing when you know God doesnt like it?

I watched all of LOTR and HP. I don't see how I am under a spell. I am not doing anything occult.

In fact I am against any kind of occult practices in real life. When my family visited the memorial of my deceased grandparents, I absolutely refused to burn any incenses for them (as per Chinese tradition). I do not even bow my head to their memorial in respect. Not saying I don't respect them. But I do not bow down to the dead.

And I recently spoke against Pentecostalism in my small group. I personally believe all these speaking in "angelic" languages and shaking like crazy on the ground are all satanic. I think we should worry a lot more about Pentecostalism than the occult. All of these "feeling" God and "feeling" the Holy Spirit is very dangerous. So is listening to a voice in our head and claiming it to be from God. I had directly hear from Pentecostals that God told them it is OK to sin, and so it was ok to sin. Why? Because the bible is outdated (yup, some Pentecostals would go that far) and the voice in their head is the updated version of God's message. That's how many cults got started.

It is not spells that I worry about. It is Satan. And I need God's close help to defeat Satan everyday, on every single decision I make. Just yesterday at 2am I had a great temptation to sin over me. But I successfully resisted it with God's help.

 

[Saucy]

Except Harry Potter was completely made up in someone's mind. There is no connection to real-life witchcraft. There is no connection to Satan. The words they use and their abilities were COMPLETELY made up and have no bearing on the real world.

So I think there is a major difference between enjoying a fictional movie and getting involved in real witchcraft.

 

[keith99]

I watched all of LOTR and HP. I don't see how I am under a spell. I am not doing anything occult.

In fact I am against any kind of occult practices in real life. When my family visited the memorial of my deceased grandparents, I absolutely refused to burn any incenses for them (as per Chinese tradition). I do not even bow my head to their memorial in respect. Not saying I don't respect them. But I do not bow down to the dead.

And I recently spoke against Pentecostalism in my small group. I personally believe all these speaking in "angelic" languages and shaking like crazy on the ground are all satanic. I think we should worry a lot more about Pentecostalism than the occult. All of these "feeling" God and "feeling" the Holy Spirit is very dangerous. So is listening to a voice in our head and claiming it to be from God. I had directly hear from Pentecostals that God told them it is OK to sin, and so it was ok to sin. Why? Because the bible is outdated (yup, some Pentecostals would go that far) and the voice in their head is the updated version of God's message. That's how many cults got started.

It is not spells that I worry about. It is Satan. And I need God's close help to defeat Satan everyday, on every single decision I make. Just yesterday at 2am I had a great temptation to sin over me. But I successfully resisted it with God's help.

I feel compelled to make sure you are not using a broad brush. What you mention is a very real danger in the Pentecostal area. But I know of one Pentecostal Church down in Watts that holds these things:

1) If any revelation does not conform to Scripture it is not from God
2) One does not need to speak in tongues to be saved
3) Speaking in tongues when an unbeliever is present is improper (per the writings of Paul in Scripture)

I mention those last 2 as I think how a Pentecostal Church stands on those 2 issues gives a good indication of the risk in the areas you mentioned.

 

[Citanul]

CS lewis, I read actually was an atheist before he became a christian and did dabble in the occult, which is why he wrote lion witch and wardrobe and knew a lot about them...witches that is. In that book, its a witch not a wizard, thats the star of the story as it were.

If you think that the witch is the star of the story then you clearly haven't read it. At no point is she ever the protagonist.

You cant say that witches and wizards arent real and completely made up out of peoples imaginations.

Why not?

 

[CCHIPSS]

I think people are afraid to say that yes. Some people ARE witches and wizards. You can tell. In my previous workplace, I encountered many that were.

They did occult practices. Whether it was new age or channelling or visualization or reading horoscopes. Their belief system was, basically I am God. One of my english teachers was brlliant, he was a wizard, there was no other explanation for the spell he cast over students.
One of my former bosses, in fact most of them, obtained their positions of power through occult practises, one actually told me she did divination.

She would cast horoscopes over the people she employed. She told me that i was picked because i was a taurus. And also, she used crystals. She had this dowsing or pendulum that would help her make desicsions.

There are indeed witches and wizards in this world today. I am not doubting that. I never did in any of my posts here.

But have you asked these witches and wizards why they got involved with the occult? Did they say "Because I watched HP and LOTR?" I doubt it.

Usually people become witches and wizards because of friends, or friend of a friend. Their friend was doing these kind of taurus and crystal things, so they gave it a try and seems to work. And so they carry on and falls deeper and deeper into the hole.

I would worry more about the kind of friends people make than the movies they watch.

A real life example. One of my friend recently went to a Taoist/Daoism median (or Feng Shui) by an introduction from an aunt of his. The Taoist median told him many things that seems to be true. So he is slightly converted. He say there can be no harm from these.

I know telling him about Jesus at this point was pointless. So instead I just told him that as a Christian, I too believe in the spiritual realm. And by using the power of the spiritual realm (demonic, but I didn't tell him this directly), it is indeed possible to predict the future. But at the end of the day, these Taoist medians do not love or care about him. That they are just here for his money. I then point out cases in Asian (a very superstitious culture) where some super wealthy people gets scammed by Taoist medians in various ways. For example there is a common believe that wealth leads to short life. So when a super wealthy person is dying, he/she might donate away a lot of their money to a Taoist median in order to prolong their life. etc

At the end it was a friendly exchange and no argument happened. I think that's all I can tell him at this point. That these Taoist medians and their demonic spirits do not actually love the people they get paid to help.

 

[keith99]

Except Harry Potter was completely made up in someone's mind. There is no connection to real-life witchcraft. There is no connection to Satan. The words they use and their abilities were COMPLETELY made up and have no bearing on the real world.

So I think there is a major difference between enjoying a fictional movie and getting involved in real witchcraft.

I'd add it was done to make it impossible to imitate. All potions need ingredients that do not exist. All spells need a wand that contains something from a magical creature, like a feather from a Phoenix. The only thing that could be imitated is portrayed as unreliable and is mocked. (and riding a broom is done starting from the ground, not by leaping off a building broom between legs).