How many creationist here think that atheism and evolution go together?

[bhsmte]

I thought you had a job in the medical field?

I asked you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You wish I had no proof. Problem is I have overwhelming evidence that you will be held accountable for. Because the one thing you are NOT going to be able to do is say is: "I do not know, no one told me".

…2"Son of man, speak to the sons of your people and say to them, 'If I bring a sword upon a land, and the people of the land take one man from among them and make him their watchman, 3and he sees the sword coming upon the land and blows on the trumpet and warns the people,4then he who hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, and a sword comes and takes him away, his blood will be on his own head.…

5'He heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning; his blood will be on himself. But had he taken warning, he would have delivered his life. 6'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'7"Now as for you, son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel; so you will hear a message from My mouth and give them warning from Me.…Eze33

Those are just empty quotes from the Bible. Here you need to be able to support your claims with actual evidence, not nonsense. Elsewhere here there are threads that are Christian only, and even then your personal interpretation of the Bible would be only poor evidence at best since others will have a different interpretation. In this part of the thread you need actual evidence.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You were asked, "How do you distinguish, between the placebo effect and God's divine faith?"
Your answer was.......

We know why but.... Why did you not answer the question?

Why would I explain something to him that he already knows. Maybe you do not know so I will explain how drug testing works at least in the traditional sense. Every test has a control group that is often referred to as a placebo. A placebo can be a sugar pill with no known effect. The challenge then is for the drug they are testing to out perform the placebo. The FDA (federal drug association) requires that you prove that your drug is more effective then a placebo. Usually a placebo is effective for one third of the people that take the placebo. If you give a second placebo then a different one third of the people benefit. So in this way up to 50 percent of the people show improvement from placebos. They may report side effects but for the most part side effects from placebos are quite a bit less then the side effects that are reported from real drugs. Most drugs are tested short term and the long term effect is unknown. Some antibiotics can be up to 92% effective and this does set the bar high. Still you only have to out perform the placebo effect so you only have to be 52% effective to be approved. Even though at 52% your really not out performing the placebo and there could be long term side effects that cancel out the known effectiveness.

If you want to test for God then you have to overcome the placebo effect. This can be difficult to do. God does thinks His way, and many do not understand the ways of God to test for God. AS Christians we do have a covenant relationship with God. If we do our part then we can be sure that God will do His part. So in this way God is testable. My point has been even if all we got was the placebo effect that is still reason to believe because the placebo effect can be substantial. I mentioned that they perform surgery on people knowing that the only benefit they will receive is from the placebo effect. Of course there are still checks and balances in that the Insurance company has to be willing to pay for the surgery.

So you have the FDA and you have Insurance companies and they have rather strict control over what they will approve. Religion is know to have many many benefits. My point is that even if all people were able to receive is the placebo effect that is still substantial and well worth the effort. I believe that we can go beyond the placebo effect. I can give you an example. There was a pastor that had a wife and his wife had cancer. The doctors opened her up and the cancer was so bad that they sowed her up and sent her home to die. Then we prayed for her. Only she was still in pain from the surgery. Finally they talked the doctor into opening her up again and they found the cancer was gone. She did have an infection because the doctor did not think they needed to clean up after themselves. So they cleaned up this time and the infection was treated and healed and she had a full recovery that lasted for over five years. So we do see results that are better then what you could expect to receive from a placebo effect. That for me is proof for God. Using the standard that the Government requires science to use to get their drugs or treatment plan approved.

Atheists have what they call the lottery theory. If your odds are one in a million that still is not evidence for them. Yet science only requires results that are better then 50%. Science is well aware of he benefit of having faith and believing in God. But most of the benefit comes from attending church or being active in your community center. One benefit is that people that are active develop empathy. This makes them more of a healthy contributing member of the society they are a part of. Also the temperance that most religious groups live by can be very beneficial and add up to five years to peoples lives. Science considers religion to be beneficial. There are many advantages that can be substantiated and tested for to verity their effectiveness.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Those are just empty quotes from the Bible.

Everything in the Bible has been tested and proven to be accurate and true. In fact God watches over His word to perform it. So you can have no better assurance then that. If you do what the Bible says to do you can be 100% assured that you will get the results the Bible says you will receive. Because God watches over His word to perform it. The reason I quote the Bible is because of that accuracy and lack of error.

When Solomon built his temple The stones used in the construction of the Temple were finished at the quarry, so there was no sound of hammer, ax, or any other iron tool at the building site. It is the same way today with the church. God works on each and every individual, then after He has finished His work in us we are assembled.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I asked you.

Why should I explain something to you that you already know?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why would I explain something to him that he already knows. Maybe you do not know so I will explain how drug testing works at least in the traditional sense. Every test has a control group that is often referred to as a placebo. A placebo can be a sugar pill with no known effect. The challenge then is for the drug they are testing to out perform the placebo. The FDA (federal drug association) requires that you prove that your drug is more effective then a placebo. Usually a placebo is effective for one third of the people that take the placebo. If you give a second placebo then a different one third of the people benefit. So in this way up to 50 percent of the people show improvement from placebos. They may report side effects but for the most part side effects from placebos are quite a bit less then the side effects that are reported from real drugs. Most drugs are tested short term and the long term effect is unknown. Some antibiotics can be up to 92% effective and this does set the bar high. Still you only have to out perform the placebo effect so you only have to be 52% effective to be approved. Even though at 52% your really not out performing the placebo and there could be long term side effects that cancel out the known effectiveness.

If you want to test for God then you have to overcome the placebo effect. This can be difficult to do. God does thinks His way, and many do not understand the ways of God to test for God. AS Christians we do have a covenant relationship with God. If we do our part then we can be sure that God will do His part. So in this way God is testable. My point has been even if all we got was the placebo effect that is still reason to believe because the placebo effect can be substantial. I mentioned that they perform surgery on people knowing that the only benefit they will receive is from the placebo effect. Of course there are still checks and balances in that the Insurance company has to be willing to pay for the surgery.

So you have the FDA and you have Insurance companies and they have rather strict control over what they will approve. Religion is know to have many many benefits. My point is that even if all people were able to receive is the placebo effect that is still substantial and well worth the effort. I believe that we can go beyond the placebo effect. I can give you an example. There was a pastor that had a wife and his wife had cancer. The doctors opened her up and the cancer was so bad that they sowed her up and sent her home to die. Then we prayed for her. Only she was still in pain from the surgery. Finally they talked the doctor into opening her up again and they found the cancer was gone. She did have an infection because the doctor did not think they needed to clean up after themselves. So they cleaned up this time and the infection was treated and healed and she had a full recovery that lasted for over five years. So we do see results that are better then what you could expect to receive from a placebo effect. That for me is proof for God. Using the standard that the Government requires science to use to get their drugs or treatment plan approved.

Atheists have what they call the lottery theory. If your odds are one in a million that still is not evidence for them. Yet science only requires results that are better then 50%. Science is well aware of he benefit of having faith and believing in God. But most of the benefit comes from attending church or being active in your community center. One benefit is that people that are active develop empathy. This makes them more of a healthy contributing member of the society they are a part of. Also the temperance that most religious groups live by can be very beneficial and add up to five years to peoples lives. Science considers religion to be beneficial. There are many advantages that can be substantiated and tested for to verity their effectiveness.

Stories without evidence are just stories. You need to do a lot better than unsubstantiated nonsense. Your pastor's wife story is one of those. From what I have heard and read there is no positive effect from prayer or other religious beliefs at all. Science does not consider religion to be beneficial. Once again you have been making claims and not supporting them with any sort of evidence.

 

[bhsmte]

Why should I explain something to you that you already know?

To show us what you know.

 

[Jay Follett]

Why would I explain something to him that he already knows. Maybe you do not know so I will explain how drug testing works at least in the traditional sense. Every test has a control group that is often referred to as a placebo. A placebo can be a sugar pill with no known effect. The challenge then is for the drug they are testing to out perform the placebo. The FDA (federal drug association) requires that you prove that your drug is more effective then a placebo. Usually a placebo is effective for one third of the people that take the placebo. If you give a second placebo then a different one third of the people benefit. So in this way up to 50 percent of the people show improvement from placebos. They may report side effects but for the most part side effects from placebos are quite a bit less then the side effects that are reported from real drugs. Most drugs are tested short term and the long term effect is unknown. Some antibiotics can be up to 92% effective and this does set the bar high. Still you only have to out perform the placebo effect so you only have to be 52% effective to be approved. Even though at 52% your really not out performing the placebo and there could be long term side effects that cancel out the known effectiveness.

If you want to test for God then you have to overcome the placebo effect. This can be difficult to do. God does thinks His way, and many do not understand the ways of God to test for God. AS Christians we do have a covenant relationship with God. If we do our part then we can be sure that God will do His part. So in this way God is testable. My point has been even if all we got was the placebo effect that is still reason to believe because the placebo effect can be substantial. I mentioned that they perform surgery on people knowing that the only benefit they will receive is from the placebo effect. Of course there are still checks and balances in that the Insurance company has to be willing to pay for the surgery.

So you have the FDA and you have Insurance companies and they have rather strict control over what they will approve. Religion is know to have many many benefits. My point is that even if all people were able to receive is the placebo effect that is still substantial and well worth the effort. I believe that we can go beyond the placebo effect. I can give you an example. There was a pastor that had a wife and his wife had cancer. The doctors opened her up and the cancer was so bad that they sowed her up and sent her home to die. Then we prayed for her. Only she was still in pain from the surgery. Finally they talked the doctor into opening her up again and they found the cancer was gone. She did have an infection because the doctor did not think they needed to clean up after themselves. So they cleaned up this time and the infection was treated and healed and she had a full recovery that lasted for over five years. So we do see results that are better then what you could expect to receive from a placebo effect. That for me is proof for God. Using the standard that the Government requires science to use to get their drugs or treatment plan approved.

Atheists have what they call the lottery theory. If your odds are one in a million that still is not evidence for them. Yet science only requires results that are better then 50%. Science is well aware of he benefit of having faith and believing in God. But most of the benefit comes from attending church or being active in your community center. One benefit is that people that are active develop empathy. This makes them more of a healthy contributing member of the society they are a part of. Also the temperance that most religious groups live by can be very beneficial and add up to five years to peoples lives. Science considers religion to be beneficial. There are many advantages that can be substantiated and tested for to verity their effectiveness.

You have managed to convince yourself but you have failed to convince anyone else, all you have done is tell us what it takes to convince you, which if you don't mind me saying is not a lot.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You have managed to convince yourself but you have failed to convince anyone else, all you have done is tell us what it takes to convince you, which if you don't mind me saying is not a lot.

You almost convince me that maybe Calvan was onto something. Because Christians know that God exists because He is very real to them in their lives. Still I believe in free will and that each and every individual has to make a choice and decide right from wrong and if they want to live for God or not. That is why we do not go along with Calvin or Arminian, but tend to follow the teaching of Wesley who says that God is calling us to Holiness. So you are looking for enough evidence to believe and I already have all the evidence I will need. I am looking for enough of a reason to live Holy before God and to serve Him and His purpose in life.

http://www.crivoice.org/tulip.html

 

[joshua 1 9]

To show us what you know.

Why would you want to know what I do or what I do not know? It is all pretty much a pratt anyways. Siri could take over at just about anytime. I understand now why God answers prayer in a way that we would never think or imagine, so that we know that He is real. Sort of like Pink when she does her acrobatics, she wants you to know for sure that she is really singing and it is not a recording.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Stories without evidence are just stories. You need to do a lot better than unsubstantiated nonsense. Your pastor's wife story is one of those. From what I have heard and read there is no positive effect from prayer or other religious beliefs at all. Science does not consider religion to be beneficial. Once again you have been making claims and not supporting them with any sort of evidence.

Why do I need to substantiate anything? All we need to do is to deliver the message God gives us to deliver and we are done. You are free to make your own choice and decide what you want to do. Your always trying to put they blame off on others rather then to take responsibility for yourself. God will hold you accountable for what you know. You will not be able to put the blame off on anyone other than yourself.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why do I need to substantiate anything? All we need to do is to deliver the message God gives us to deliver and we are done. You are free to make your own choice and decide what you want to do. Your always trying to put they blame off on others rather then to take responsibility for yourself. God will hold you accountable for what you know. You will not be able to put the blame off on anyone other than yourself.

Because that is the way that it works on an internet forum. Of course you don't have to. We know that you are wrong and your inability to support your claims shows that even you know that you are wrong.

And sorry, but your version of "God" is almost certainly wrong. You are not delivering a message for anyone except your own ego.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why would you want to know what I do or what I do not know? It is all pretty much a pratt anyways. Siri could take over at just about anytime. I understand now why God answers prayer in a way that we would never think or imagine, so that we know that He is real. Sort of like Pink when she does her acrobatics, she wants you to know for sure that she is really singing and it is not a recording.

You do know what a PRATT is don't you? PRATT's are what creationists use, not those arguing against your beliefs. When you are using PRATT's it is not a good time to accuse others of that sin.

 

[In situ]

Did you know that most theists accept evolution? that atheism has absolutely nothing to do with evolution, cheese making, wind surfing or horse riding.

Just want to add that there is a forum on CF for Christian only that also discuss theistic evolution and creationism.

Not saying that one should not post stuff like this here, but the purpose of this forum is a bit limited in its extent and, of course, not intended to rob people of their faith.

 

[In situ]

Why do I need to substantiate anything? All we need to do is to deliver the message God gives us to deliver and we are done..

Because this is the discussion forum in where you 1) are supposed to provide evidence for any claim you make, and 2) are not supposed (according to this forums rules) to preach your beliefs.

Once the rules allowed this kind of unsubstantiated talk in here but it mostly lead to bad feelings, hard words etc, due to the nature of the participants varied forms of skepticism in this forum. Therefore if you feel a need to preach god words, I suggest you do that elsewhere or you risk getting reported to the moderators - in the extension banned. Is that what you desire to happen?

But why not, feel free, go ahead and continue on. I would be more than happy to report you myself, because right now I don't like the attitude you display against other human fellow beings here, not to mention the disrespect you show towards the house rules which are set to keep the peace in here.

 

[In situ]

Why should I explain something to you that you already know?

Why don't you then instead explain why you cant keep to both the official and unofficial rules in this forum?

 

[Hoghead1]

I hate to gang up on you, Joshua 19. But the others are right. In a serious theological discussion group, you can disagree all you want, but you need to make a solid counterargument, casting aspersion on the character of others is way off limits.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Why you then instead explain why you cant keep to both the official and unofficial rules in this forum?

What are you talking about?

 

[In situ]

What are you talking about?

Statement like this: "Why do I need to substantiate anything? All we need to do is to deliver the message God gives us to deliver and we are done.." and the rest of your proselyting which I cant even be bothered to read...

Such statements are both off topic and rule breaking for this entire forum and I have explained in a previous post why these rules exists. (Which begs the question; did you even read that other message I wrote to you before you made this comment?)

My point is; if you do not want to participate in the discussions and the topic why even bother be here? That does not mean you have to agree with anything, it just means that you are not entitled to pretend your opinion and claims are facts, nor are you supposed to have a one way communication. You have to both give and take...

 

[PsychoSarah]

Why would you want to know what I do or what I do not know?

If you are arguing because you are ignorant on certain aspects or ideas, that demands a different approach to debating with you than if you are well informed, and just interpret information differently.