LDS Why do Mormons think all Christians are in apostasy?

[withwonderingawe]

The one that professes Him God....

?

 

[Jutta2]

Jutta,
The posts you have been spamming throughout this thread are completely off-topic, factually incorrect, completely ignores what people are trying to say to you, and dripping with un-Christ-like slander. If you want to argue all this other stuff to "show how Mormons their faults and weaknesses", then start a new thread on the matter. Your English is fine.

My English is bad, and you know it!
But that's not the point. The point is that Mormons repeatedly claim to be right, and if someone proves them wrong, they behave like a petulant child. All my statements submitted; either a quotation or summary; LDS sources which I can prove at any time. Jane, frankly, discussion with you bored me because you used all the LDS tactics; I know as a former Mormon, and thus see through. ,

 

[Jutta2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_..._Christ_of_Latter-Day_Saints_v._United_States

This was among the last of the legal battles the church fought, and came shortly before Official Declaration #1.
This is false, and whoever told it to you obviously cannot be trusted as a source.

But an article in Wikipedia, which was obviously written by Mormon; can be trusted? ,

 

[Jutta2]

No, it's just the usual anti-Mormon shock tactics spread by folks like Decker.

Are you living on the same planet as I ? I have photocopies from books, which were published by your so-called "church" that prove just that! I have the Discouses, I have the History of the Church (earlier issues). They all prove these statements, that was then believed that Jesus and God are polygamists. It is not an invention of apostate Mormons, as you imagine, but an invention of the true believin Mormons.

 

[Jutta2]

There seems to be 2 versions to Mormonism, the official, public one, and the unofficial, privately practiced one----that is the way it comes across, anyway.

True description of LDS tactics. They are living in two different words.

 

[Jutta2]

The lds has no evidence to back up it's claim, nor has provided evidence that "proper authority" is necessary.

Correct. But they want to themselves and the world made to believe that there is such evidence. It would be funny if it were not so sad. I met many good people among the Mormons. People who lie to themselves and others, because they do not know better. And if someone comes and sets out the facts to them, they do not want to believe it, because its leaders have persuaded them lies. One of these lies is that everything that comes from "apostates", is a lie per se. And that ONLY THE LDS got the whole truth. What a lie!

 

[Jutta2]

He is wrong

Who was wrong? My aunt? The bishop? I?
The Bishop should still get supposedly from God through the HG revelations for his ward. If the bishop has been wrong, can it not be that he, and all the other bishops of the LDS, received from God no revelations?

 

[Jutta2]

She is asking to start your own thread and not derail this thread

Are she and/or you afraid about the answer, about my deep understanding of LDS doctrines?

 

[fatboys]

My English is bad, and you know it!
But that's not the point. The point is that Mormons repeatedly claim to be right, and if someone proves them wrong, they behave like a petulant child. All my statements submitted; either a quotation or summary; LDS sources which I can prove at any time. Jane, frankly, discussion with you bored me because you used all the LDS tactics; I know as a former Mormon, and thus see through. ,

Kitts I don't know how long you have been away from the church but I think you have forgotten things and remembering from anti Mormon websites is not a good resource. Almost all of you posts are questions and answers from thes sites. The only one that was original was about you uncle/aunt. No please start your own thread before someone reports you and you get punished for it

 

[Jutta2]

Hi Jutta2,

JS had his first vision in 1820 and it was in that year that he told his clergyman. So it is from that date he told of the apostacy. Over the next few years that apostacy was made more clear and more clear, but 1820 is the date that the apostacy started to be talked about.

Incorrect! This statement from you referring comes from the so called "Wentworth Letter" which was later distributed as a brochure. To my knowledge, it was written around 1838, so eight years after the church foundation, and eighteen years after the alleged First Vision. So Smith told the story from the flashback as I would call it as a screenwriter. And we all know that changes a story, the longer it is back. There is of Smith-written and partly published statements about the First Vision, which contradict each other in part. And also there was the same year as Smith First Vision to have had, in his residential area a religious revivalism. The place, however, as various sources prove, not 1819-20 instead, but winter / spring 1823/24, as well as Oliver Cowdery, one of the "witnesses" of the Book of Mormon, told.
Conclusion: The First Vision JS is a fraud. It also contradicts biblical statements.

 

[Jutta2]

History does not support Smiths version.

I found this interesting quote about the first Vision:

But as it was in the days of our Savior, so was it in the advent of this new dispensation. It was not in accordance with the notions, traditions, and pre-conceived ideas of the American people. The messenger did not come to an eminent divine of any of the so-called orthodoxy, he did not adopt their interpretations of the Holy Scriptures. The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven, in power and great glory, nor send His messengers panoplied with aught else than the truth of heaven, to communicate to the meek, the lowly, and the youth of humble origin, the sincere enquirer after the knowledge of God. But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong ... (Brigham Young, 1855, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.171).

Smith didn't saw God or Jesus, just ANGELS? And don't forget, my source is from the LDS.

 

[fatboys]

Incorrect! This statement from you referring comes from the so called "Wentworth Letter" which was later distributed as a brochure. To my knowledge, it was written around 1838, so eight years after the church foundation, and eighteen years after the alleged First Vision. So Smith told the story from the flashback as I would call it as a screenwriter. And we all know that changes a story, the longer it is back. There is of Smith-written and partly published statements about the First Vision, which contradict each other in part. And also there was the same year as Smith First Vision to have had, in his residential area a religious revivalism. The place, however, as various sources prove, not 1819-20 instead, but winter / spring 1823/24, as well as Oliver Cowdery, one of the "witnesses" of the Book of Mormon, told.
Conclusion: The First Vision JS is a fraud. It also contradicts biblical statements.

There is a whole thread on this topic. Post in that one

 

[civilwarbuff]

?

Didn't think you'd get it....

 

[mmksparbud]

So is God supposed to force people to believe?

God does not force, there is enough there for faith in Him and His word, there is also the other side working against God and we are to be wise and He has warned us there sre false prophets and to test for evidence of what is from God and what isn't. If something goes against the already established written word of God, it is not from Him. If someone says God has told them to commit adultery, then you know it can't be from God as He will not command such a thing as it goes against a direct command of His. We are not to be gullible and stupid and fall for everything and everyone that says they are of God.

Mat_10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 

[Jane_Doe]

God does not force, there is enough there for faith in Him and His word, there is also the other side working against God and we are to be wise and He has warned us there sre false prophets and to test for evidence of what is from God and what isn't. If something goes against the already established written word of God, it is not from Him. If someone says God has told them to commit adultery, then you know it can't be from God as He will not command such a thing as it goes against a direct command of His. We are not to be gullible and stupid and fall for everything and everyone that says they are of God.

Mat_10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

So, do you believe that could be mass deception and lost of faith due to the wolves of Satan?

 

[Jutta2]

Kitts I don't know how long you have been away from the church but I think you have forgotten things and remembering from anti Mormon websites is not a good resource. Almost all of you posts are questions and answers from thes sites. The only one that was original was about you uncle/aunt. No please start your own thread before someone reports you and you get punished for it

 

[mmksparbud]

So, do you believe that could be mass deception and lost of faith due to the wolves of Satan?

People choose that all the time---Jonestown---

 

[Jane_Doe]

People choose that all the time---Jonestown---

But you find the idea of the world doing that unrealistic?

 

[mmksparbud]

But you find the idea of the world doing that unrealistic?

It's done all the time. There is a difference between truth being rejected and truth being lost---truth was rejected by the majority of Jews, it was not lost, truth was rejected by JS, it was not lost. The truth of the bible is rejected by his followers, it is not lost.

 

[Jane_Doe]

It's done all the time. There is a difference between truth being rejected and truth being lost---truth was rejected by the majority of Jews, it was not lost, truth was rejected by JS, it was not lost. The truth of the bible is rejected by his followers, it is not lost.

What do you see as difference between the whole world rejecting the truth, versus the whole world losing the truth?