LDS Why do Mormons think all Christians are in apostasy?

[Jutta2]

Are there multiple Christian churches which Christ founded? If no, then how do you explain the Catholic church and your church (2 churches)?

Mormons believe that there so many churches, m because they all have rebelled against the true and only Church. The existence of many churches is not a sign of apostasy, probes to understand a sign of thinking and believing people who want to try their faith. The case come forth different opinions and beliefs is only natural!
Only, these people all had in common. A she unifying faith despite differences. The faith of the Mormons, however, is outside the Christian faith. Your God is a God other than the God of the Christians and the Bible. Your Jesus is another Jesus, as the Christians and the Bible. Temple Endowment, baptism for the dead, all that was and has never been part of early Christianity. It is an LDS invention, and one that they stole from the Freemasons.

 

[Jutta2]

But Christ did not found two churches, and you stated that Catholics and you go to different churches. Which did Christ found?

Jane, You remind me of one of my cousins, when she was little. She always wanted to be right, even if she knew she was wrong.

 

[Jutta2]

In the History of the Church (vol.7, p. 287), Brigham Young even claimed that "Every spirit that confesses that Joseph Smith is a Prophet, that he lived and died a Prophet and that the Book of Mormon is true, is of God, and every spirit that does not is of anti-Christ."

In other words: Those who believe the words of Mormon without verification, has the Holy Spirit. Who questioned the statements of Mormons and checked, and comes to a different conclusion than Mormons, is of the devil. I wonder if my cloven hooves, ponytail and two horns, would look good on my head?

President Joseph Fielding Smith added that there is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth.... No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1, pp. 189-90).

In the newspapers and magazines of the LDS Church (Ensign and Church News, and Childrens Friend) is more written about Joseph Smith and the Church's history than Jesus Christ. And when it is written about Jesus, then the Mormon Christ.

These are Mormon Presidents saying that salvation is dependent on believing in JS?

This is not officially taught today, was literature but never denied in the LDS.

 

[Jutta2]

There is only ONE Christian church---there are many different interpretations of scriptures leading to different denominations, but only ONE "Christian" church.

Nope! There is NO Christian Church as a faith, but many Christian Churches as belief.

 

[mmksparbud]

It is the Christian faith, it is the Christian church--with many different denominations--if you wish to think otherwise---won't hurt my feelings any.

 

[Goatee]

Jane does bring up some good points. I will have to read more about them but i have no issues with some of them. Some of them to me seem like common sense as how a Christian should behave anyway!

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

Hi TravelerFarAwayFromHome,

I'm actually going to answer these specific questions in a few posts (I'm breaking down my discussion about Mormon views of into bite-size pieces). I'll let you know the post number when I get to these questions. In the mean time, let me know if you have any questions about Parts 1 or 2 thus far.

thanks for your reply

I just read your part 1

so Mormon believe anyone and everyone will be resurrected in the second coming from the physical death

and those who are not Mormons or possibly Christians will die a spiritual death?

 

[NYCGuy]

But do you believe everyone in Heaven is Catholic (regardless of what they were in this life)? For example, does everyone in Heaven acknowledge the Pope as Christ's representative on Earth, and that the Catholic Church is Christ's One True Church.

Presumably. However the distinction I am making is that for Catholics, one does not explicitly need to receive Catholic sacraments to receive eternal life. An Orthodox baptism can be salvific. An Anglican baptism can be salvific. Etc. In contrast, sure, Mormons may believe that others are disciples of Christ and everything else you stated, however, to receive eternal life, you must have the ordinances from Mormon priesthood authority. That's the distinction I'm making.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Jane does bring up some good points. I will have to read more about them but i have no issues with some of them. Some of them to me seem like common sense as how a Christian should behave anyway!

I'm glad you're enjoying Let me know if you have any question!

 

[Jane_Doe]

so Mormon believe anyone and everyone will be resurrected in the second coming from the physical death

Correct.

and those who are not Mormons or possibly Christians will die a spiritual death?

The short answer: everyone will have equal opportunity to be with God in the afterlife, and many people whom a Christian in this life will be there.

The long answer: I just decided that I'm going rearrange my Parts a little, and make this answer Part 5.

 

[tickingclocker]

So basically, the Mormon faith thinks that the Bible is not true because the Bible has survived all these years in it's original languages of Hebrew and Greek. Because if you believed that the Bible were true, than there were always people during the supposed 'apostasy' that had God's Word and could have come to Christ for salvation because ALL that is needed to come to Christ and be saved is in the Bible.

Is this true?

Mormonism teaches that all people (who are not adulterers, murderers, or reject mormonism) will end up in heaven, even if they don't believe Jesus Christ is their Savior beforehand. They will be offered the opportunity to do so (or reject Him) once there. Which is why their "apostasy" stance is beyond me, considering the above completely nullifies walking by faith, except being rewarded for it. On the other hand, we know no believer can manufacture faith through their own effort, so how can one be rewarded for something that originated from and is sustained by God, technically making it God's property from start to finish? Even the servants given the Master's talents to increase had to hand them all back as the Master rightful property. All they got for their efforts was sharing in the Master's "joy". Nothing is ever the servant's to "claim/own/use for his own needs", just manage FOR their Master. (Matthew 25:14-30) So why the need to claim that some don't have all the "truth", when possessing "truth" has never been necessary within mormonism anyway? Is that like making your kids put on sunscreen to go play in the rain? Sounds like it to me.

Personally I've learned to stay away from religions that are so intricate no child can understand them without first being systematically instructed in its precepts. Which leads me to another observation: God didn't need the bible to speak to Abraham's, Noah's, or Adam and Eve's faith in Him. Never limit His actions to the bible, or anything else. God can talk to people anyway He desires.

 

[ToBeLoved]

This is not officially taught today, was literature but never denied in the LDS.

Someone cannot take away what the Prophets and others in leadership say. This is what the decision-makers in the church teach and say. I don't care if it is 'officially' taught or not. Just like my other thread about the Brigham Young blood atonement sermon. He was their prophet, so His words are in their view, from God. That carries much more weight with me than what is in their teaching books.

And this should make others wonder, why are they saying things, but won't put them in the 'official' records/teachings?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Nope! There is NO Christian Church as a faith, but many Christian Churches as belief.

Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.

Colossians 1:18
He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Ephesians 5:29-30
for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body.

We are the body of Christ, the church.


**
Question: "What is the church?"

Answer: Many people today understand the church as a building. This is not a biblical understanding of the church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people. It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.

The church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head. Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” The body of Christ is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ from the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) until Christ’s return. The body of Christ is comprised of two aspects:

1) The universal church consists of all those who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13). This verse says that anyone who believes is part of the body of Christ and has received the Spirit of Christ as evidence. The universal church of God is all those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

2) The local church is described in Galatians 1:1-2: “Paul, an apostle … and all the brothers with me, to the churches in Galatia.” Here we see that in the province of Galatia there were many churches—what we call local churches. A Baptist church, Lutheran church, Catholic church, etc., is not the church, as in the universal church—but rather is a local church, a local body of believers. The universal church is comprised of those who belong to Christ and who have trusted Him for salvation. These members of the universal church should seek fellowship and edification in a local church.

In summary, the church is not a building or a denomination. According to the Bible, the church is the body of Christ—all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13). Local churches are gatherings of members of the universal church. The local church is where the members of the universal church can fully apply the “body” principles of 1 Corinthians chapter 12: encouraging, teaching, and building one another up in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Taken from http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-the-church.html

**

 

[ToBeLoved]

(My promised response to post #131—)

I would also say that it is through Christ’s atonement that our sins are justified and Christ is our advocate, as I explained in Part 2. Do you think we are on the same or different wavelength? How so?

One way in which mainstream Christianity and Mormonism do differ is that mainstream Christianity views the afterlife and a Heaven/Hell binary. Mormonism on the other hand has a spectrum, because God loves all His children and wants to give the most He can. Some people flat out refuse Christ (no crown), other partially accept Christ but still love some of their sins (small crown), other forsake their sins and fully embrace Christ (fully crown). I was going to talk more about this spectrum in a later part.

I’ll talk about the Holy Spirit tomorrow morning in Part 3.

Believing that Christ is one of many Gods that have risen to the point of godhood, is much different than knowing that Christ, the Father and Holy Spirit are the only God, now and forever.

Believing that one can become a God is against every verse in the Bible. The Israelite's were punished throughout the Old Testament for their issues with putting ANY God before the Only God.

Jesus Christ being God needs to have the same meaning for it to be the same. But it is not the same Jesus here.

When you really evaluate what the Mormon belief in God is, their are many many gods and there will be many many more that become gods, an equal to Christ, the Son of God?

Correct?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Great question.

An "I'm sorry" without Christ's atonement still leaves you paying the unsurmountable price at the Judgement Day. A person must accept Christ as their Savior & His atonement.

Beyond that, steps in repentance are--
Feel a genuine sincere remorse for the sin
Confessing it. For most sins this is simply to the Lord, but sometimes other people (like if it was criminal act).
Turn your heart away from the sin, abandoning it (this is done with the Lord's power).
If applicable, restitution. For example, give something back you stole.
Go and sin no more.

Important note: for the vast majority of people, repentance is an continually on going process (we mess up again). Repentance is also facilitated and only made possible because of God-- we can no way to it on our own.

What is the 'unsurmountable price on Judgement Day?'

 

[Jane_Doe]

Mormonism teaches that all people (who are not adulterers, murderers, or reject mormonism) will end up in heaven, even if they don't believe Jesus Christ is their Savior beforehand. They will be offered the opportunity to do so (or reject Him) once there. Which is why their "apostasy" stance is beyond me, considering the above completely nullifies walking by faith, except being rewarded for it. On the other hand, we know no believer can manufacture faith through their own effort, so how can one be rewarded for something that originated from and is sustained by God, technically making it God's property from start to finish? Even the servants given the Master's talents to increase had to hand them all back as the Master rightful property. All they got for their efforts was sharing in the Master's "joy". Nothing is ever the servant's to "claim/own/use for his own needs", just manage FOR their Master. (Matthew 25:14-30) So why the need to claim that some don't have all the "truth", when possessing "truth" has never been necessary within mormonism anyway? Is that like making your kids put on sunscreen to go play in the rain? Sounds like it to me.

This is only partially accurate. I'll talk about all of this stuff in just a little bit. Sorry about the delay, these entries are time consuming to write, and I have to balance real-life responsibilities too.

Personally I've learned to stay away from religions that are so intricate no child can understand them without first being systematically instructed in its precepts.

It's actually not that complicated, Mormon children by the age of 5 get it...

Which leads me to another observation: God didn't need the bible to speak to Abraham's, Noah's, or Adam and Eve's faith in Him. Never limit His actions to the bible, or anything else. God can talk to people anyway He desires.

Agreed.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Believing that Christ is one of many Gods that have risen to the point of godhood, is much different than knowing that Christ, the Father and Holy Spirit are the only God, now and forever.

Believing that one can become a God is against every verse in the Bible. The Israelite's were punished throughout the Old Testament for their issues with putting ANY God before the Only God.

Jesus Christ being God needs to have the same meaning for it to be the same. But it is not the same Jesus here.

When you really evaluate what the Mormon belief in God is, their are many many gods and there will be many many more that become gods, an equal to Christ, the Son of God?

Correct?

I'm a little confused here...how does any of this connect to my Parts 1 & 2?
(I'm trying to avoid going off-topic here)

 

[Jane_Doe]

What is the 'unsurmountable price on Judgement Day?'

We cannot pay the price for our sins, and with Christ & His atonement, we will never have our stain washed cleaned and never live with God in the eternities. That is a huge price.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'm a little confused here...how does any of this connect to my Parts 1 & 2?
(I'm trying to avoid going off-topic here)

It is speaking of the diety of Christ in the Christian church, that He is God and that the Trinity is the Only God that will ever be.

That is much different from believing that Jesus the Son of God was once not God, but became God through being born of Mary and succesfully living a perfect life to become God.

In Christainity there is only One God, the Trinity.

In Mormonism, many can become God through steps.

So, it is very different and in Mormon view Jesus Christ is not THE God, but one God of many gods.

 

[Jane_Doe]

It is speaking of the diety of Christ in the Christian church, that He is God and that the Trinity is the Only God that will ever be.

That is much different from believing that Jesus the Son of God was once not God, but became God through being born of Mary and succesfully living a perfect life to become God.

In Christainity there is only One God, the Trinity.

In Mormonism, many can become God through steps.

So, it is very different and in Mormon view Jesus Christ is not THE God, but one God of many gods.

My Parts 1 & 2 did not touch on the Trinity or Godhood at all, though it did mention belief in Jesus as the Son of God. Beyond that... honestly I view this as a side-track. Mind if we hold off on this until I get done talking about salvation?