Evidence from Sola Scriptura - right from the Bible itself

[BobRyan]

Plenty of evidence in the Bible for the saints using the "sola scriptura" method to test all doctrine and tradition to "see IF those things are true"


Acts 17
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see IF these things were so.


Luke 24

27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

And Christ said this - about "Sola Scriptura" testing of church tradition and doctrine.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

In Isaiah 8:19 we find this "to the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them".

There again we have sola scriptura - being taught.


And Paul insists that he and everyone else be tested that same way -

Gal 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

We can know what had been preached by Paul as of Gal 1... by reading the texts themselves.

I think that it is obvious to anyone who has objectively read this thread that Sola Scriptura is not supportable from Scripture,

Until you read the opening post.

It's quite obvious here that there was a third party between Scripture and it's readers. Someone still had to explain it, unfold it, interpret it for them.

Let's "test that" claim without using circular reasoning - using one of the examples given above


Acts 17
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see IF these things were so.

Who is the "third party" here explaining to them what Paul was saying so that they could know if "it was so" when compared to scripture?


Notice that the text does not say "these non-Christians asked the Christian Apostle Paul to explain scripture to them so they could see IF what the scripture said -- was SO".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[fhansen]

Let's "test that" claim without using circular reasoning - using one of the examples given above


Acts 17
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see IF these things were so.

Who is the "third party" here explaining to them what Paul was saying so that they could know if "it was so" when compared to scripture?


Notice that the text does not say "these non-Christians asked the Christian Apostle Paul to explain scripture to them so they could see IF what the scripture said -- was SO".

in Christ,

Bob

Why would Paul or others of this new movement need to tell them anything? Why shouldn't they just be able to pick up the OT and know on their own? Are you saying no teachers were/are necessary? No need for instruction? No need for promulgating correct doctrine?

 

[BobRyan]

You have consistently made an unsubstantiated claim that church tradition includes the Bible. It is a lie you need to perpetuate in order to maintain Roman church totalitarianism.
God is not a tradition and His word is not subservient or even equal to tradition. His word always measures tradition as beneficial or heretical. .

Hence the example that we have in Mark 7:6-13 where Christ hammers the traditions of church magisterium "sola scriptura".

A demonstrated practice by Christ that is "not supposed to even exist" according to "some" on this thread.

 

[Erose]

You have consistently made an unsubstantiated claim that church tradition includes the Bible.

Tradition and Scripture

17. In reaffirming the profound connection between the Holy Spirit and the word of God, we have also laid the basis for an understanding of the significance and the decisive value of the living Tradition and the sacred Scriptures in the Church. Indeed, since God “so loved the world that he gave his only Son” (Jn 3:16), the divine word, spoken in time, is bestowed and “consigned” to the Church in a definitive way, so that the proclamation of salvation can be communicated effectively in every time and place. As the Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum reminds us, Jesus Christ himself “commanded the Apostles to preach the Gospel – promised beforehand by the prophets, fulfilled in his own person and promulgated by his own lips – to all as the source of all saving truth and moral law, communicating God’s gifts to them. This was faithfully carried out; it was carried out by the Apostles who handed on, by oral preaching, by their example, by their ordinances, what they themselves had received – whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or by coming to know it through the prompting of the Holy Spirit; it was carried out by those Apostles and others associated with them who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing”.[56]

The Second Vatican Council also states that this Tradition of apostolic origin is a living and dynamic reality: it “makes progress in the Church, with the help of the Holy Spirit”; yet not in the sense that it changes in its truth, which is perennial. Rather, “there is a growth in insight into the realities and the words that are being passed on”, through contemplation and study, with the understanding granted by deeper spiritual experience and by the “preaching of those who, on succeeding to the office of bishop, have received the sure charism of truth”.[57]

The living Tradition is essential for enabling the Church to grow through time in the understanding of the truth revealed in the Scriptures; indeed, “by means of the same tradition, the full canon of the sacred books is known to the Church and the holy Scriptures themselves are more thoroughly understood and constantly made effective in the Church”.[58] Ultimately, it is the living Tradition of the Church which makes us adequately understand sacred Scripture as the word of God. Although the word of God precedes and exceeds sacred Scripture, nonetheless Scripture, as inspired by God, contains the divine word (cf. 2 Tim 3:16) “in an altogether singular way”.[59]

18. We see clearly, then, how important it is for the People of God to be properly taught and trained to approach the sacred Scriptures in relation to the Church’s living Tradition, and to recognize in them the very word of God. Fostering such an approach in the faithful is very important from the standpoint of the spiritual life. Here it might be helpful to recall the analogy drawn by the Fathers of the Church between the word of God which became “flesh” and the word which became a “book”.[60] The Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum takes up this ancient tradition which holds, as Saint Ambrose says,[61] that “the body of the Son is the Scripture which we have received”, and declares that “the words of God, expressed in human language, are in every way like human speech, just as the word of the eternal Father, when he took on himself the weak flesh of human beings, became like them”.[62] When understood in this way, sacred Scripture presents itself to us, in the variety of its many forms and content, as a single reality. Indeed, “through all the words of sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single word, his one utterance, in whom he expresses himself completely (cf. Heb 1:1-3)”.[63] Saint Augustine had already made the point clearly: “Remember that one alone is the discourse of God which unfolds in all sacred Scripture, and one alone is the word which resounds on the lips of all the holy writers”.[64]

In short, by the work of the Holy Spirit and under the guidance of the magisterium, the Church hands on to every generation all that has been revealed in Christ. The Church lives in the certainty that her Lord, who spoke in the past, continues today to communicate his word in her living Tradition and in sacred Scripture. Indeed, the word of God is given to us in sacred Scripture as an inspired testimony to revelation; together with the Church’s living Tradition, it constitutes the supreme rule of faith.[65]
VERBUM DOMINI

Look if you really want to know what the Church teaches, you really don't have to go far. Its all right on the web. If you want to know what the popes really taught, the Vatican has a website with a lot of the papal documents on it.

It is a lie you need to perpetuate in order to maintain Roman church totalitarianism.

You know this really makes no sense. The Catholic Church to be totalitarian would require it the have much more secular power than what it has now. Vatican city is not that large, and I don't believe anyone who lived within its gates would think that the government was totalitarian.

God is not a tradition and His word is not subservient or even equal to tradition. His word always measures tradition as beneficial or heretical.

His Word is His Son. Sacred Tradition/Scripture is the Divine Revelation handed down to us by His Word.

I have laid out the heresies of the Roman church because they are contrary to God's word.

Actually you really haven't. The few doctrines that you have complained about, are not heresies, and do not contradict Scripture. What contradicts Scripture is Sola Scriptura and this Once Saved Always Saved thing. Neither are found in Scripture. It really requires a lot of twisting to even come close to these false teachings.

You continually lusteth after your traditions and worship them.

No...I worship God, His Son, and His Spirit in all truth, handed down to me by His Church, which is the Body of His Son, and I know that His teaching has come to me untainted, because Christ promised it would.

That sin is owned by you.

I really feel sorry for you that you have bought into the lies and deceptions of these hate-groups. May God lead you out of your hate, and into His fullness of Faith, which I pray through Christ our Lord.

I also do want to apologize for doing the tit for tat thing with you. I should not have done so. I should have been a better man than that. If you have an honest question or argument, I will do my best to answer it from here on out.

 

[Erose]

Hence the example that we have in Mark 7:6-13 where Christ hammers the traditions of church magisterium "sola scriptura".

A demonstrated practice by Christ that is "not supposed to even exist" according to "some" on this thread.

Bob, the Church as an institution didn't exist yet. Unless you think that Jesus was really reprimanding the Apostles here, which I really can't see how you can get to that point.

 

[MennoSota]

Tradition and Scripture

17. In reaffirming the profound connection between the Holy Spirit and the word of God, we have also laid the basis for an understanding of the significance and the decisive value of the living Tradition and the sacred Scriptures in the Church. Indeed, since God “so loved the world that he gave his only Son” (Jn 3:16), the divine word, spoken in time, is bestowed and “consigned” to the Church in a definitive way, so that the proclamation of salvation can be communicated effectively in every time and place. As the Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum reminds us, Jesus Christ himself “commanded the Apostles to preach the Gospel – promised beforehand by the prophets, fulfilled in his own person and promulgated by his own lips – to all as the source of all saving truth and moral law, communicating God’s gifts to them. This was faithfully carried out; it was carried out by the Apostles who handed on, by oral preaching, by their example, by their ordinances, what they themselves had received – whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or by coming to know it through the prompting of the Holy Spirit; it was carried out by those Apostles and others associated with them who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing”.[56]

The Second Vatican Council also states that this Tradition of apostolic origin is a living and dynamic reality: it “makes progress in the Church, with the help of the Holy Spirit”; yet not in the sense that it changes in its truth, which is perennial. Rather, “there is a growth in insight into the realities and the words that are being passed on”, through contemplation and study, with the understanding granted by deeper spiritual experience and by the “preaching of those who, on succeeding to the office of bishop, have received the sure charism of truth”.[57]

The living Tradition is essential for enabling the Church to grow through time in the understanding of the truth revealed in the Scriptures; indeed, “by means of the same tradition, the full canon of the sacred books is known to the Church and the holy Scriptures themselves are more thoroughly understood and constantly made effective in the Church”.[58] Ultimately, it is the living Tradition of the Church which makes us adequately understand sacred Scripture as the word of God. Although the word of God precedes and exceeds sacred Scripture, nonetheless Scripture, as inspired by God, contains the divine word (cf. 2 Tim 3:16) “in an altogether singular way”.[59]

18. We see clearly, then, how important it is for the People of God to be properly taught and trained to approach the sacred Scriptures in relation to the Church’s living Tradition, and to recognize in them the very word of God. Fostering such an approach in the faithful is very important from the standpoint of the spiritual life. Here it might be helpful to recall the analogy drawn by the Fathers of the Church between the word of God which became “flesh” and the word which became a “book”.[60] The Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum takes up this ancient tradition which holds, as Saint Ambrose says,[61] that “the body of the Son is the Scripture which we have received”, and declares that “the words of God, expressed in human language, are in every way like human speech, just as the word of the eternal Father, when he took on himself the weak flesh of human beings, became like them”.[62] When understood in this way, sacred Scripture presents itself to us, in the variety of its many forms and content, as a single reality. Indeed, “through all the words of sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single word, his one utterance, in whom he expresses himself completely (cf. Heb 1:1-3)”.[63] Saint Augustine had already made the point clearly: “Remember that one alone is the discourse of God which unfolds in all sacred Scripture, and one alone is the word which resounds on the lips of all the holy writers”.[64]

In short, by the work of the Holy Spirit and under the guidance of the magisterium, the Church hands on to every generation all that has been revealed in Christ. The Church lives in the certainty that her Lord, who spoke in the past, continues today to communicate his word in her living Tradition and in sacred Scripture. Indeed, the word of God is given to us in sacred Scripture as an inspired testimony to revelation; together with the Church’s living Tradition, it constitutes the supreme rule of faith.[65]
VERBUM DOMINI

Look if you really want to know what the Church teaches, you really don't have to go far. Its all right on the web. If you want to know what the popes really taught, the Vatican has a website with a lot of the papal documents on it.

You know this really makes no sense. The Catholic Church to be totalitarian would require it the have much more secular power than what it has now. Vatican city is not that large, and I don't believe anyone who lived within its gates would think that the government was totalitarian.

His Word is His Son. Sacred Tradition/Scripture is the Divine Revelation handed down to us by His Word.

Actually you really haven't. The few doctrines that you have complained about, are not heresies, and do not contradict Scripture. What contradicts Scripture is Sola Scriptura and this Once Saved Always Saved thing. Neither are found in Scripture. It really requires a lot of twisting to even come close to these false teachings.

No...I worship God, His Son, and His Spirit in all truth, handed down to me by His Church, which is the Body of His Son, and I know that His teaching has come to me untainted, because Christ promised it would.

I really feel sorry for you that you have bought into the lies and deceptions of these hate-groups. May God lead you out of your hate, and into His fullness of Faith, which I pray through Christ our Lord.

I also do want to apologize for doing the tit for tat thing with you. I should not have done so. I should have been a better man than that. If you have an honest question or argument, I will do my best to answer it from here on out.

Thanks for sharing the lie of the Roman church. A discerning Christian will see the heresy mixed with truth. Subtle, like Satan, it twists people away from God and gives glory to the Roman church as lord of people's lives. Usurping God's authority it replaces truth with with a lie.

Thank you for sharing. Now everyone can see what I have been talking about.

 

[fhansen]

Thanks for sharing the lie of the Roman church. A discerning Christian will see the heresy mixed with truth. Subtle, like Satan, it twists people away from God and gives glory to the Roman church as lord of people's lives. Usurping God's authority it replaces truth with with a lie.

Thank you for sharing. Now everyone can see what I have been talking about.

Or see for themselves in any case. This has nothing to do with the authority of Rome per se, but with the way God structured His church as reflected in the expression of the faith in both the east and western churches. God simply didn't leave us with His Word-and no church that was an intrinsic part of it's reception from the beginning to understand/interpret it -so that we might otherwise end up, for example, with Sunday worship as satisfying the requirement for Sabbath observance for some while others insist on Saturday, with Sunday observance being considered a "mark of the beast", both views represented by posters in this thread, both going by Scripture alone, both presumably sincere in their reasons for interpreting as they do.

 

[MennoSota]

Or see for themselves in any case. This has nothing to do with the authority of Rome per se, but with the way God structured His church as reflected in the expression of the faith in both the east and western churches. God simply didn't leave us with His Word-and no church that was an intrinsic part of it's reception from the beginning to understand/interpret it -so that we might otherwise end up, for example, with Sunday worship as satisfying the requirement for Sabbath observance for some while others insist on Saturday, with Sunday observance being considered a "mark of the beast", both views represented by posters in this thread, both going by Scripture alone, both presumably sincere in their reasons for interpreting as they do.

God was not obscure in sharing His word. He speaks plainly to us. Those who hear the Shepherd's voice, respond to His word.
When the church presents a message that is contrary to the Shepherd's, the sheep must ignore and reject that voice. Any church that speaks in contradiction of the Bible, God's word, must be reprimanded as speaking falsely.
Infant baptism for salvation is false.
Indulgences is false.
Merits of the saints is false.
Works salvation is false.
Salvation via communion is false.
Purgatory is false.
Mary worship is false.
Shine and icon making is idol worship and false.

Return to the word of God. It is more than sufficient to lead us and guide us.

 

[Erose]

Thanks for sharing the lie of the Roman church. A discerning Christian will see the heresy mixed with truth. Subtle, like Satan, it twists people away from God and gives glory to the Roman church as lord of people's lives. Usurping God's authority it replaces truth with with a lie.

Thank you for sharing. Now everyone can see what I have been talking about.

Yes, they can. They can also see what exactly is the position of the Church, instead of the false indoctrination that you have received from the websites of hate groups.

 

[MennoSota]

Yes, they can. They can also see what exactly is the position of the Church, instead of the false indoctrination that you have received from the websites of hate groups.

Yes, they can see the position of the Roman church and see its heresy. Thank you for showing us all the heresy of your church.

You desperately want me to be reading websites instead of God's word. That would put me on your playing field where you read the writings of your church rather than the writing of God.

Go read your Bible and stop reading the paple bull.

 

[BobRyan]

You have consistently made an unsubstantiated claim that church tradition includes the Bible. It is a lie you need to perpetuate in order to maintain Roman church totalitarianism.
God is not a tradition and His word is not subservient or even equal to tradition. His word always measures tradition as beneficial or heretical. .

Hence the example that we have in Mark 7:6-13 where Christ hammers the traditions of church magisterium "sola scriptura".

A demonstrated practice by Christ that is "not supposed to even exist" according to "some" on this thread.

Bob, the Church as an institution didn't exist yet.

The RCC would not evolve into existence for many more centuries after Christ's statement to the church leadership of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai - in Mark 7.

But in Romans 11 that same - single - tree - where both OT and NT saints are grafted in -- is seen again in Rev 12 as the pure woman that gives birth to Christ and then for 1260 years in the dark ages is persecuted by Satan and his agents.

Thus when Christ hammers the leadership, the magisterium of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai "sola scriptura" in Mark 7 -- he shows us "how it is done"!

notice that in Mark 7 the discussion is about worship, church tradition and doctrine.

And Christ said this - about "Sola Scriptura" testing of church tradition and doctrine.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

In Isaiah 8:19 we find this "to the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them".

There again we have sola scriptura - being taught.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Erose]

God was not obscure in sharing His word. He speaks plainly to us. Those who hear the Shepherd's voice, respond to His word.
When the church presents a message that is contrary to the Shepherd's, the sheep must ignore and reject that voice. Any church that speaks in contradiction of the Bible, God's word, must be reprimanded as speaking falsely.

Infant baptism for salvation is false.

You still haven't answered my question on what you think baptism is.

Indulgences is false.

Jam 5: 19 My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Merits of the saints is false.

Jam 5: 16...The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. 17 Elijah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18* Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit.

Works salvation is false.

The Catholic Church agrees.

Salvation via communion is false.

Not sure what you mean by this.

Purgatory is false.

This one would require greater detail than I have here. There are quite a few threads on this doctrine, and if you want a Biblical defense of this Doctrine, I will give it to you.

Mary worship is false.

You may be surprised to know that the false worship of Mary has been condemned by the Catholic Church.

Shine and icon making is idol worship and false.

The Catholic Church agrees.

Return to the word of God. It is more than sufficient to lead us and guide us.

Its hard to return to something that you haven't left.

 

[Erose]

Yes, they can see the position of the Roman church and see its heresy. Thank you for showing us all the heresy of your church.

You desperately want me to be reading websites instead of God's word. That would put me on your playing field where you read the writings of your church rather than the writing of God.

Funny

Go read your Bible and stop reading the paple bull.

Just finished actually. Guess we will also add to you lack of knowledge what a papal bull is.

 

[Erose]

Hence the example that we have in Mark 7:6-13 where Christ hammers the traditions of church magisterium "sola scriptura".

A demonstrated practice by Christ that is "not supposed to even exist" according to "some" on this thread.

The RCC would not evolve into existence for many more centuries after Christ's statement to the church leadership of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai - in Mark 7.

But in Romans 11 that same - single - tree - where both OT and NT saints are grafted in -- is seen again in Rev 12 as the pure woman that gives birth to Christ and then for 1260 years in the dark ages is persecuted by Satan and his agents.

Thus when Christ hammers the leadership, the magisterium of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai "sola scriptura" in Mark 7 -- he shows us "how it is done"!

notice that in Mark 7 the discussion is about worship, church tradition and doctrine.

And Christ said this - about "Sola Scriptura" testing of church tradition and doctrine.

Well thanks for contradicting yourself all in one single post. That made things quite easy. The Scribes and Pharisees, would not have been considered the magisterium of the Jewish nation Bob. That would have been the Sadducees, who held the priestly offices. I can understand how confusing this all can be.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

In Isaiah 8:19 we find this "to the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them".

There again we have sola scriptura - being taught.

Actually you have no such thing. I know you want it to be there, but no matter how much you want it to be, it isn't there. Do you not see what Jesus is referring to here? Their tradition, not THE Tradition. THE Jewish traditions, are those handed down from Moses all the way to Jesus' time and beyond. The pharisees where a sect of Jews, and not all Jews were pharisees. He is going after the added requirements above and beyond THE Tradition of the Jews.

Bob, we can both agree, that Scripture can be used for reproof, for teaching, etc. What we cannot agree on is that Scripture is the sole authority. Scripture was not intended to be that, it has never been viewed as such, not until 500 years ago. Whether you like it or not, Sola Scriptura is a man-made tradition, it is as simple as that. Then you throw in the fact, that the concept of Sola Scriptura doesn't work, has never worked and will never work. Then you get the mess that Christianity is in right now.

 

[MennoSota]

Funny

Just finished actually. Guess we will also add to you lack of knowledge what a papal bull is.

You are working desperately to cling to the heresies of the Roman church.

 

[Erose]

You are working desperately to cling to the heresies of the Roman church.

Actually not working hard at all on that matter. All you have done is prove just how ignorant people are out there even in this new "enlightened" age of the Internet; and also the fact that there are still a lot of Protestant anti-Catholic hate groups out there still spewing their lies.

 

[MennoSota]

Actually not working hard at all on that matter. All you have done is prove just how ignorant people are out there even in this new "enlightened" age of the Internet; and also the fact that there are still a lot of Protestant anti-Catholic hate groups out there still spewing their lies.

You're wrong.

I just oppose non-biblical heretical teachings of the Roman church. These false teachings of the Roman church do not come from God, which means they are anti-christ.
Stop telling us they come from God. You have zero biblical support for them and they contradict the word of God.
Me saying this is not hateful, it's truth you refuse to hear.

 

[BobRyan]

You have consistently made an unsubstantiated claim that church tradition includes the Bible. It is a lie you need to perpetuate in order to maintain Roman church totalitarianism.
God is not a tradition and His word is not subservient or even equal to tradition. His word always measures tradition as beneficial or heretical. .

Hence the example that we have in Mark 7:6-13 where Christ hammers the traditions of church magisterium "sola scriptura".

A demonstrated practice by Christ that is "not supposed to even exist" according to "some" on this thread.

Bob, the Church as an institution didn't exist yet.

The RCC would not evolve into existence for many more centuries after Christ's statement to the church leadership of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai - in Mark 7.

But in Romans 11 that same - single - tree - where both OT and NT saints are grafted in -- is seen again in Rev 12 as the pure woman that gives birth to Christ and then for 1260 years in the dark ages is persecuted by Satan and his agents.

Thus when Christ hammers the leadership, the magisterium of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai "sola scriptura" in Mark 7 -- he shows us "how it is done"!

notice that in Mark 7 the discussion is about worship, church tradition and doctrine.

And Christ said this - about "Sola Scriptura" testing of church tradition and doctrine.


Mark 7:6-13

.

In Isaiah 8:19 we find this "to the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them".

There again we have sola scriptura - being taught.

Well thanks for contradicting yourself all in one single post. That made things quite easy.

False factless accusations of that sort are a dime-a-dozen.

next.

The Scribes and Pharisees, would not have been considered the magisterium of the Jewish nation Bob.

until you read the actual Bible where Christ points to them as "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat." Matt 23:2 -

Less false accusation - more Bible facts please.

Actually you have no such thing. I know you want it to be there, but no matter how much you want it to be, it isn't there. Do you not see what Jesus is referring to here? Their tradition, not THE Tradition. THE Jewish traditions, are those handed down from Moses all the way to Jesus' time and beyond.

This is where you shoot yourself in the foot.

Much of Catholic tradition has no such "Moses speaking from God" source to it all. Most of us know that.

Yet we all know that God spoke to Moses - and at least some of what the jews had at the time of Christ came from that infallible source. STILL they had traditions that could be hammered - sola scriptura as we see Christ doing in Mark 7.

The point remains.

He is going after the added requirements above and beyond THE Tradition of the Jews.

Christ said He was going after their tradition and not "requirements beyond tradition" -- read the actual text instead of making stuff up.

Sola Scriptura is a man-made tradition,

No it is not. Read Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye


it is as simple as that. Then you throw in the fact, that the concept of Sola Scriptura is also in Isaiah 8:20 and has worked at every step you can avoid the mess that Christianity discovered in the dark ages when ruled by the RCC

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Erose]

You're wrong.

Doubt it.

I just oppose non-biblical heretical teachings of the Roman church. These false teachings of the Roman church do not come from God, which means they are anti-christ.

If you are so against non-biblical heretical teachings, why do you still hold to the false teachings of Sola Scriptura and OSAS?

Stop telling us they come from God. You have zero biblical support for them and they contradict the word of God.

Actually I have full support, it's called the Bible, and the witness of the Church Fathers. You have Calvin and hate sites.

Me saying this is not hateful, it's truth you refuse to hear.

Yeah, perhaps you need to work on your tact then, because you are coming off as being pretty hateful.

 

[Erose]

This is where you shoot yourself in the foot.

Much of Catholic tradition has no such "Moses speaking from God" source to it all. Most of us know that.

Yet we all know that God spoke to Moses - and at least some of what the jews had at the time of Christ came from that infallible source. STILL they had traditions that could be hammered - sola scriptura as we see Christ doing in Mark 7.

Actually we have someone greater Bob, we have Jesus Christ and His Apostles. Whether or not you like it, the Catholic Church is the tree that Christ planted and grew. Your group is one of the many branches that have fallen off.

The point remains.

Christ said He was going after their tradition and not "requirements beyond tradition" -- read the actual text instead of making stuff up.

Ok this shows that you really don't know what Tradition is. The Jewish Sacred Tradition is the whole Old Covenant. All of it handed down to them from Moses and the Prophets. That is Sacred Tradition of the Jews. What Jesus criticized them for was adding additional moral requirements to what was handed down, kind of like what your church has done. What Protestants have done with adding all these new teachings and twisting Scripture to fit what they want to believe.

it is as simple as that. Then you throw in the fact, that the concept of Sola Scriptura is also in Isaiah 8:20 and has worked at every step you can avoid the mess that Christianity discovered in the dark ages when ruled by the RCC

Now you are just heavily trying to force your beliefs too far onto Scripture.

It just goes to prove my point, Sola Scriptura fails because of the lens of faith tradition. One cannot read Scripture in a vacuum.