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Evidence from Sola Scriptura - right from the Bible itself

Erose

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The Bible did not come out of the Church.
Do you not know that the Church is the Body of Christ?


God's word came out of God's mouth and was imparted to humanity and to his church.
I think you are confusing Christ, who is the Word, with Scripture, which is the Word. There is a difference here. The Word is a Who, primarily. Scripture is that which God taught through His Prophets and Apostles. His Prophets are Jews, His Apostles are both Jews and members of His Church. So yes it was through the Jewish people that we received the Old Testament, and it was through His Church that He gave us the New Testament.

You are getting very close, to worshipping the letter, over the Spirit.


God sovereignly directed and anointed his chosen to write down his word. He sovereignly kept his word available to us throughout the centuries.
Actually it was God's inspiration by which the authors wrote the Sacred Texts, not His sovereignty. He did not force anyone against their will. It was His inspiring the Church to select the writings that they did to become their Sacred Canon, which by the way for some odd reason, Protestant publishers decided to remove seven of those Sacred Writings from the Christian Canon. That adding/subtracting thing you spoke of earlier.


I am stating that infant baptism as a means of salvation is never taught in God's word. God shares that He makes us alive and gives us faith. He extends grace to his chosen, adopted, children. God gives salvation to whom He wills. Salvation comes by God baptizing us with his Holy Spirit. Read Ephesians 2:1-10.
So you are saying that God does not will infants to be saved? How strange.
 
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MennoSota

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Do you not know that the Church is the Body of Christ?


I think you are confusing Christ, who is the Word, with Scripture, which is the Word. There is a difference here. The Word is a Who, primarily. Scripture is that which God taught through His Prophets and Apostles. His Prophets are Jews, His Apostles are both Jews and members of His Church. So yes it was through the Jewish people that we received the Old Testament, and it was through His Church that He gave us the New Testament.

You are getting very close, to worshipping the letter, over the Spirit.


Actually it was God's inspiration by which the authors wrote the Sacred Texts, not His sovereignty. He did not force anyone against their will. It was His inspiring the Church to select the writings that they did to become their Sacred Canon, which by the way for some odd reason, Protestant publishers decided to remove seven of those Sacred Writings from the Christian Canon. That adding/subtracting thing you spoke of earlier.


So you are saying that God does not will infants to be saved? How strange.
You have done a lot of misreading and mis-stating.

You clearly want your traditions to be greater than God's word so that God becomes subservient to your church and your will. That's sad.
 
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NonTheologian

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The Bible did not come out of the Church.

We know from Church history the following:
  • The New Testament books were written by men who were within and not without the Church
  • At the time that the New Testament canon was being developed there were many other books in circulation besides the books that are bound in what people read as the "New Testament" today
  • The books we currently accept as properly belonging to the New Testament were enumerated in writings we have of certain Church Fathers, such as Athanasius and Cyril of Jerusalem
  • Local churches formally established the New Testament canon within their jurisdictions beginning in the 4th century (e.g. Canon 33 of the local Council of Carthage, 397 AD)
  • The New Testament canon was formally closed for the universal Church by the Seventh Ecumenical Council in Nicea in 787, which adopted the previous local Councils' canons.
We see, then, that the Church - through its Fathers and Councils, guided and guarded by the Holy Spirit - played a very active role in defining the New Testament canon. Do maintain otherwise seems to me to imply that the Church was a purely passive instrument - a sort of ventriloquist's dummy, if you will. Am I misrepresenting your view?
 
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Erose

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You have done a lot of misreading and mis-stating.

You clearly want your traditions to be greater than God's word so that God becomes subservient to your church and your will. That's sad.
I don't think I have done any misreading here, perhaps you are not being clear.

The fact is that Sacred Tradition, which includes Scripture, is God's Word, the sacred Deposit of Faith given to man-kind. So no my Traditions cannot be greater than God's Word for it is His Word.
 
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MennoSota

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We know from Church history the following:
  • The New Testament books were written by men who were within and not without the Church
  • At the time that the New Testament canon was being developed there were many other books in circulation besides the books that are bound in what people read as the "New Testament" today
  • The books we currently accept as properly belonging to the New Testament were enumerated in writings we have of certain Church Fathers, such as Athanasius and Cyril of Jerusalem
  • Local churches formally established the New Testament canon within their jurisdictions beginning in the 4th century (e.g. Canon 33 of the local Council of Carthage, 397 AD)
  • The New Testament canon was formally closed for the universal Church by the Seventh Ecumenical Council in Nicea in 787, which adopted the previous local Councils' canons.
We see, then, that the Church - through its Fathers and Councils, guided and guarded by the Holy Spirit - played a very active role in defining the New Testament canon. Do maintain otherwise seems to me to imply that the Church was a purely passive instrument - a sort of ventriloquist's dummy, if you will. Am I misrepresenting your view?
God spoke. God inspired. God gave His word. Humans were chosen by God and wrote God's word to humanity.

We must refrain from imagining that humans wrote what they imagined about God. We must refrain from imagining that humans chose to write their opinion and that humans chose the canon.
No.
God directed men and men obeyed.
God fulfilled his word to us when Revelation was complete. No new revelation.
All God. Men were simply his channel.
The Roman church is only God glorifying when it obeys the Scriptures. When it makes things up out of thin air and calla them tradition, we must reject the non-inspired traditions as empty and valueless at best and deceitful and anti-christ at worst.
 
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MennoSota

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I don't think I have done any misreading here, perhaps you are not being clear.

The fact is that Sacred Tradition, which includes Scripture, is God's Word, the sacred Deposit of Faith given to man-kind. So no my Traditions cannot be greater than God's Word for it is His Word.
This is an outright lie. Stop speaking lies.
The Word of God is the word of God. It has nothing to do with tradition. It has everything to do with "Thus sayeth the Lord."
The traditions of the Roman church are subservient and must be rejected whenever they go against God's word.
Repent of your heresy, Erose.
 
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Erose

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This is an outright lie. Stop speaking lies.
Sorry, the truth hurts doesn't it.


The Word of God is the word of God. It has nothing to do with tradition. It has everything to do with "Thus sayeth the Lord."
Actually it does. Sacred Tradition is the full Deposit of Faith handed down from Jesus and His Apostles. Thus Sacred Tradition is God's Divine Revelation.


The traditions of the Roman church are subservient and must be rejected whenever they go against God's word.
Well they never go against God's Word, for it was given to us by God's Word, and His Apostles.


Repent of your heresy, Erose.
I have sins to repent, but not heresy.
 
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Erose

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God spoke. God inspired. God gave His word. Humans were chosen by God and wrote God's word to humanity.

We must refrain from imagining that humans wrote what they imagined about God. We must refrain from imagining that humans chose to write their opinion and that humans chose the canon.
No.
God directed men and men obeyed.
God fulfilled his word to us when Revelation was complete. No new revelation.
All God. Men were simply his channel.
The Roman church is only God glorifying when it obeys the Scriptures. When it makes things up out of thin air and calla them tradition, we must reject the non-inspired traditions as empty and valueless at best and deceitful and anti-christ at worst.
Nontheologian is Orthodox not Catholic, Orthodox also baptize their babies as well.
 
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MennoSota

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Which one? Sola Scriptura?
Erose, you are clearly not going to give up clinging to your popes robes and worshipping his every command. That's your choice. Just don't tell the rest of Christianity that they need to worship your anti-christ as well.
 
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Erose

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Erose, you are clearly not going to give up clinging to your popes robes and worshipping his every command.
You know we have discussed this earlier in the thread; but the pope doesn't make doctrine, never has never will. That's not his function nor is it the function of his infallibility. His function is to safe guard the Divine Revelation given to us by God. It is as simple as that.

That's your choice.
I thought you didn't believe in free will.

Just don't tell the rest of Christianity that they need to worship your anti-christ as well.
When did Jesus Christ become the anti-Christ? What faith group do you belong to?
 
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fhansen

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Plenty of evidence in the Bible for the saints using the "sola scriptura" method to test all doctrine and tradition to "see IF those things are true"


Acts 17
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see IF these things were so.


Luke 24


27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

And Christ said this - about "Sola Scriptura" testing of church tradition and doctrine.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

In Isaiah 8:19 we find this "to the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them".

There again we have sola scriptura - being taught.


And Paul insists that he and everyone else be tested that same way -

Gal 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

We can know what had been preached by Paul as of Gal 1... by reading the texts themselves.
It's quite obvious here that there was a third party between Scripture and it's readers. Someone still had to explain it, unfold it, interpret it for them. This "someone" was the church, comprised of those called out by Christ. Scripture alone could never guarantee adequate understanding of it's meaning.
 
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MennoSota

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You know we have discussed this earlier in the thread; but the pope doesn't make doctrine, never has never will. That's not his function nor is it the function of his infallibility. His function is to safe guard the Divine Revelation given to us by God. It is as simple as that.

I thought you didn't believe in free will.


When did Jesus Christ become the anti-Christ? What faith group do you belong to?
The pope, who has created doctrine from thin air and whom you insist upon worshipping has created anti-christ doctrine that contradicts God's word. Your comments about the Bible being "tradition" are completely wrong. I have shown the errors of your church. You cling to the heresies anyway. Until God opens your eyes, you will continue to follow your heresies. So be it.
 
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Erose

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I think that it is obvious to anyone who has objectively read this thread that Sola Scriptura is not supportable from Scripture, nor is it in practice a feasible method of authority, as the far majority of Christians interpret Scripture through the lens of the faith tradition, and those few that don't cannot fully understand what they are reading. So I would say it is time to move on to another debate.
 
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Erose

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The pope, who has created doctrine from thin air and whom you insist upon worshipping has created anti-christ doctrine that contradicts God's word. Your comments about the Bible being "tradition" are completely wrong. I have shown the errors of your church. You cling to the heresies anyway. Until God opens your eyes, you will continue to follow your heresies. So be it.
What doctrine has a pope created out of thin air? Sources please.

Look I get it. You have spent way too much time on anti-Catholic websites, so you have been deceived. Perhaps it is time to do some honest study, instead of being indoctrinated by these hate groups.
 
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MennoSota

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What doctrine has a pope created out of thin air? Sources please.

Look I get it. You have spent way too much time on anti-Catholic websites, so you have been deceived. Perhaps it is time to do some honest study, instead of being indoctrinated by these hate groups.
I have shared the doctrines on many occasions in this thread. Your constant refusal to acknowledge them is very telling.

No websites. I read what the Pope and his cronies have stated over the years. I compare it with the Bible and see that it is unsupported by God. I reject non-biblical teachings as heresy.
You should do the same.
 
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Erose

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I have shared the doctrines on many occasions in this thread. Your constant refusal to acknowledge them is very telling.
No you have shared things you claimed as such, big difference.

No websites. I read what the Pope and his cronies have stated over the years. I compare it with the Bible and see that it is unsupported by God. I reject non-biblical teachings as heresy.
Yeah, right.


You should do the same.
You know, I do and you have nothing to support your false claims, so what is the point?
 
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MennoSota

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No you have shared things you claimed as such, big difference.

Yeah, right.


You know, I do and you have nothing to support your false claims, so what is the point?
You have consistently made an unsubstantiated claim that church tradition includes the Bible. It is a lie you need to perpetuate in order to maintain Roman church totalitarianism.
God is not a tradition and His word is not subservient or even equal to tradition. His word always measures tradition as beneficial or heretical. I have laid out the heresies of the Roman church because they are contrary to God's word. You continually lusteth after your traditions and worship them. That sin is owned by you.
 
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