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Why is God so hidden? Why must we seek Him to Find Him?

Moral Orel

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I didn't say it was immoral, I implied that it's inevitable that a finite can't see the absolute in anything like an absolute sense, but not because the absolute is hiding, rather man is just not equipped.

So then he could have equipped us better, but he chose not to. And the question isn't why we don't understand everything about God in an "absolute" sense, I don't think anyone would expect that. The question is why do we have to seek him. We could be better equipped to perceive him, and God chose to limit us in that manner.

Omnipotence does not mean God can or would do something contrary to his wisdom. God cannot create evil that is also good, or square circles etc.

"Contrary to his wisdom" just sounds like it wasn't part of his plan. Which just means it was a choice. If you really mean that God can't do things that aren't the best possible thing to do, then I would say that God doesn't have free will but is more of a force of nature than an intelligent being.

He wants us to find him in truth.

"He wants us to find him" means he chose to hide.
 
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Colter

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So then he could have equipped us better, but he chose not to. And the question isn't why we don't understand everything about God in an "absolute" sense, I don't think anyone would expect that. The question is why do we have to seek him. We could be better equipped to perceive him, and God chose to limit us in that manner.



"Contrary to his wisdom" just sounds like it wasn't part of his plan. Which just means it was a choice. If you really mean that God can't do things that aren't the best possible thing to do, then I would say that God doesn't have free will but is more of a force of nature than an intelligent being.



"He wants us to find him" means he chose to hide.

Equipped us better? Well, when you do find God you can explain to him why and how you would do things better.

Why do we have to seek him? That question has been answered, our particular design (there are many beyond our range of vision) is material creatures of time and space who have beginnings but not necessarily endings. We are designed to grow through experience. I've already said, if we were transported to the geographical location of God we would still not see him with our material vision, and we haven't grown enough spiritually to recognize him if we could see him.

Some of us see God in his creation all around us, but I realize that's not the kind of proof people demand of God.
 
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Locutus

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Love is impossible to define or prove in the same way, but those who have experienced it know what it is.

love is an emotion, a feeling. driven by hormones, mostly. are you saying that Jesus is just that, feelings? because that would make more sense.
 
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Locutus

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Whats it matter to you? Does my faith keep you awake at night? Does it harm you in some way? Is this still a free country? Do we still have freedom of religion? Im not trying to be offensive or rude, but i must ask you.

so that's a 'no' then?
 
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Extraneous

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love is an emotion, a feeling. driven by hormones, mostly. are you saying that Jesus is just that, feelings? because that would make more sense.

At the end of the day, and the end of your life, science and politics will mean nothing. All you will desire is love. One day you will see that Love is more than an emotion. In the end you will see that its the most valuable thing of all. God is love. Not love as defined by the world, but love as defined by God himself.
 
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Extraneous

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love is an emotion, a feeling. driven by hormones, mostly. are you saying that Jesus is just that, feelings? because that would make more sense.

The answer is already within yourself. Forgive me for re-posting these same words below, but this is what i mean when i say that the answer is already within yourself.

At the end of the day, and the end of your life, science and politics will mean nothing. All you will desire is love. One day you will see that Love is more than an emotion. In the end you will see that its the most valuable thing of all. God is love. Not love as defined by the world, but love as defined by God himself.
 
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Locutus

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You keep recycling the same argument. You have to experience it instead of coming up with a thousand and one excuses to stay in the nest. The search for God is personal for each one if us.

Probably because it hasn't been answered. And here you are again, not answering the question.
 
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Locutus

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The answer is already within yourself. Forgive me for re-posting these same words below, but this is what i mean when i say that the answer is already within yourself.

At the end of the day, and the end of your life, science and politics will mean nothing. All you will desire is love. One day you will see that Love is more than an emotion. In the end you will see that its the most valuable thing of all. God is love. Not love as defined by the world, but love as defined by God himself.

Undoubtedly I will consider love the most important thing - besides surviving - if I'm at death's door. what does that have to do with gods?
 
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Locutus

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No, you assume much. God is an absolute, I am finite, we are all finite humans who can worship God and seek his will. But certainly none of us can know God in an absolute sense. Unity not uniformity. I'm certainly evolving in my understanding of God as well.

So you believe all gods are real and valid?
 
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Extraneous

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the heart pumps blood around the body. if you believe it has another function, by all means please post the evidence!

Here is the evidence. This is the third time im posting these words. Its not spam, and my last reply with these words was actually meant for this post instead, i replied to the wrong message, my apologies. here is the evidence you asked for.

The heart i speak of is just a metaphor. Its like your soul i suppose. Evidence for the existence and function of this spiritual heart is found within the heart itself

Just look and see- At the end of the day, and the end of your life, science and politics will mean nothing. All you will desire is love. One day you will see that Love is more than an emotion. In the end you will see that its the most valuable thing of all. God is love. Not love as defined by the world, but love as defined by God himself.
 
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Extraneous

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Undoubtedly I will consider love the most important thing - besides surviving - if I'm at death's door. what does that have to do with gods?

Your need for survival is why love is so important. When death knocks at your door, who will you pray to? In other words, when you cry out wanting to live instead of die, who will you cry out to?
 
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Locutus

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Your need for survival is why love is so important. When death knocks at your door, who will you pray to? In other words, when you cry out wanting to live instead of die, who will you cry out to?

No idea. My husband. My children. A better doctor. A dear friend who died recently cried out for her husband. Another I know called for a long dead sibling.

The telling thing about death and religion - believers are as loathe to go as the rest of us. Sometimes more so.
 
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Extraneous

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Folks, imagine if you will, that life is the greatest scientific experiment. What are the findings at the end of this experiment? What have we observed?

We will all, no matter who we are, find that in the end nothing in this world matters because when we die it will all be meaningless. All that will remain is our desire to keep living, although we are dying. That's the end result of the scientific experiment known as life in this world. Is this not true?

I say that this is not insignificant by any means. The fact that this is all that will remain is proof that it is actually all that is real. Its Gods way of speaking to our heart, i.e, our soul or our inner being. Everything else is only temporary, a mere illusion if you will. This is the truth. Its what the prophets spoke, and the apostles. Its what i have found to be true, and its why we hope in the Gospel.


Look and see-

Isaiah 40: A voice cries:
In the wilderness prepare the way of the Lord;
make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
4 Every valley shall be lifted up,
and every mountain and hill be made low;
the uneven ground shall become level,
and the rough places a plain.
5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
and all flesh shall see it together,
for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”


6 A voice says, “Cry!”
And I said,[c] “What shall I cry?”
All flesh is grass,
and all its beauty[d] is like the flower of the field.
7 The grass withers, the flower fades
when the breath of the Lord blows on it;
surely the people are grass.
8 The grass withers, the flower fades,
but the word of our God will stand forever.


1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”[c]

And this is the word that was preached to you.
 
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Locutus

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Here is the evidence.

The heart i speak of is just a metaphor. Its like your soul i suppose. Evidence for the existence and function of this spiritual heart is found within the heart itself.

the evidence for a mysterious organ which no one has seen or can define, is found in the mysterious organ no one has seen or can define? further, despite the apparent total mystery of the thing, you somehow know this?

you'll forgive my understandable incredulity.

meanwhile, it's a very human thing, to name and think of our little urges somewhat poetically.
 
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Moral Orel

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Equipped us better? Well, when you do find God you can explain to him why and how you would do things better.
I'm not telling God what he ought to do. I'm pointing out to you that God chose to do things this way, since you seem to be under the impression that there was no other option. God made the choice to hide, because he wants us to seek him, and that is what the OP asked. Saying, "Because God designed it that way" isn't an answer.

Why do we have to seek him? That question has been answered, our particular design (there are many beyond our range of vision) is material creatures of time and space who have beginnings but not necessarily endings. We are designed to grow through experience. I've already said, if we were transported to the geographical location of God we would still not see him with our material vision, and we haven't grown enough spiritually to recognize him if we could see him.

Again, why did God make our particular design this way. That is the question. Not, "Why do physical eyes not see spiritual things". You aren't answering the question at hand. You're stating the question is something different than it is.
 
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Colter

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I'm not telling God what he ought to do. I'm pointing out to you that God chose to do things this way, since you seem to be under the impression that there was no other option. God made the choice to hide, because he wants us to seek him, and that is what the OP asked. Saying, "Because God designed it that way" isn't an answer.



Again, why did God make our particular design this way. That is the question. Not, "Why do physical eyes not see spiritual things". You aren't answering the question at hand. You're stating the question is something different than it is.
Why? Because it was his will for us. The result is the necessity to live by faith and the never ending quest for truth.
 
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Moral Orel

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Why? Because it was his will for us.

Sounds like, "Because I said so", which also isn't an explanation. If it's just another one of those "working in mysterious ways" answers, then what in the world are we supposed to learn from it if we can never know why it is the way that it is?
 
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Colter

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Sounds like, "Because I said so", which also isn't an explanation. If it's just another one of those "working in mysterious ways" answers, then what in the world are we supposed to learn from it if we can never know why it is the way that it is?
I understand it and don't need God to change his ways. I trust him and his messengers.
 
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