Why The Trinity is a False Teaching - Summarized Doctrinal Reasons

[MerriestHouse]

Then who is Jesus if he is not God?....or maybe what is he if not God?

The Apostle Paul (who is strictly a Jewish monotheist who believed "To us there is one God, the Father and no other God besides Him) repeats that same view of God as a single person in 1 Timothy 2:5 "There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Messiah Jesus."

Paul is careful to say that there is "one Lord Jesus Christ." The first one, God the Father who is the Lord God of the Shema. Then there is the one Lord Christ who is Jesus, now exalted to the right hand of the One God. For us, there are two Lords but only one God. The second Lord cannot also be God. The Father and the Son are not Lords in the same sense.

He is the Lord Messiah and he is given that designation by the angel when he was born. "Today is born to you a Savior, who is the Lord Christ." Luke 2:11 Not, the Lord God. Jesus is God's anointed.

Sarah called Abraham Lord. She was not calling him God.

 

[MerriestHouse]

cgaviria

Is not belief in the Trinity a key element in being a Christian?

From the gospel going forth from Jerusalem in the first century to the Nicene Council in the fifth century . . .almost 500 years later, thousands of Christians lived and died that had never heard of the Trinity. They were Christians without it. The greatest of the Nicene fathers, Athanasius admitted that the Trinitarian formula of Nicea "was going beyond anything said explicitly in the New Testament." Not all of those at Nicene debating over the issue agreed with the doctrine.

Luke and Matthew declared in plain terms that the coming into existence, begetting, of the Son of God was by a miracle, some two thousand years ago, in the womb of the virgin Mary. There is no preexisting Son and no possibility of this doctrine in Luke. The virgin birth of Jesus is a contradiction to the incarnation of the preexistent Son of God and to the Trinity. Jesus first became God's Son through Mary's conception. Sonship cannot at the same time consist in preexistence and still have its origin only in the divine procreation of Jesus in Mary. Gabriel, Mary and Luke would all have come under an anathema as others did when they dared to challenge the doctrine.

 

[Strong in Him]

The Holy Spirit is also God, right? Does the Holy Spirit have a name?

No. Is that relevant?

When Jesus said "I and the Father are one," John 10:30, it was clearly meant to describe the perfect unity of purpose and action between God and himself as the Messiah.

No, that's one way of reading it; it doesn't clearly say/mean that at all.
Jesus also said, "if you have seen me", ie the Son of Man who came from heaven, "you have seen the Father."

If Jesus is God, not only is Jewish and Christian monotheism subverted and thousands of references to God as a single Person overthrown, but Jesus' accomplishment on our behalf becomes and empty charade.

If Jesus is NOT God, then we are trusting that a mere man has the ability to reconcile us with the Father, take away our sins, overcome the devil and grant us eternal life. If it was only a man who died on the cross, he has achieved nothing - having been crucified for blasphemy. God raised Jesus from the dead to prove that he was exactly who he had claimed to be, and has exalted him above all things and given him the name that is above every name.
No other human being in the entire history of the world could achieve what Jesus did and be exalted as he was.

If Jesus is God, he cannot be tempted, because God cannot be tempted with evil. James 1:13

Jesus was fully man and fully God - not easy to understand, but nothing else makes sense. Like I said, how can someone who is simply a man, no matter how anointed, reconcile us to the Father and give us eternal life?

If Jesus was not God when he was on earth, who was he?

 

[Strong in Him]

From the gospel going forth from Jerusalem in the first century to the Nicene Council in the fifth century . . .almost 500 years later, thousands of Christians lived and died that had never heard of the Trinity. They were Christians without it.

No they weren't.
Jesus told the disciples to baptise in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The trinity is involved in, and necessary for, our salvation.
Jesus said that he is the way, the truth and the life and that no one can go to the Father except through him, John 14:6. Peter said that there is no other name under heaven by which we can be saved, Acts 4:12. So Jesus is the only way to God and our Saviour. Paul says that through the death of Christ we have been reconciled to God, Romans 5:11; 2 Corinthians 5:19-20, and that through the Spirit we are adopted as God's children, Romans 8:14, and are heirs of God together with Christ, Romans 8:17. He says that without the Holy Spirit we cannot declare that Jesus is Lord of our lives, 1 Corinthians 12:3.

So mankind sinned against God, were spiritually dead and the relationship between God and man was broken. Jesus came to make a NEW covenant, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Matthew 26:28, to give his life as a ransom for many, Mark 10:45, to seek and save the lost, Luke 19:10, and to save people from their sins, Matthew 1:21, John 1:29. Through Jesus, God the Son, we are reconciled to God the Father; through God the Holy Spirit we have assurance that we are children of God and co-heirs with Christ, Romans 8:17. The apostles baptised people in water, in the name of the trinity, and then laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.
This is the Gospel; mankind sinned against God the Father, we have been reconciled through God the Son and can receive, and are filled with, God the Spirit. The Apostles preached this from the beginning - even if they did not say, "I am teaching you about the trinity", that is clearly what they were doing. They believed in ONE God, not 3.

 

[Goatee]

No they weren't.
Jesus told the disciples to baptise in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The trinity is involved in, and necessary for, our salvation.
Jesus said that he is the way, the truth and the life and that no one can go to the Father except through him, John 14:6. Peter said that there is no other name under heaven by which we can be saved, Acts 4:12. So Jesus is the only way to God and our Saviour. Paul says that through the death of Christ we have been reconciled to God, Romans 5:11; 2 Corinthians 5:19-20, and that through the Spirit we are adopted as God's children, Romans 8:14, and are heirs of God together with Christ, Romans 8:17. He says that without the Holy Spirit we cannot declare that Jesus is Lord of our lives, 1 Corinthians 12:3.

So mankind sinned against God, were spiritually dead and the relationship between God and man was broken. Jesus came to make a NEW covenant, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Matthew 26:28, to give his life as a ransom for many, Mark 10:45, to seek and save the lost, Luke 19:10, and to save people from their sins, Matthew 1:21, John 1:29. Through Jesus, God the Son, we are reconciled to God the Father; through God the Holy Spirit we have assurance that we are children of God and co-heirs with Christ, Romans 8:17. The apostles baptised people in water, in the name of the trinity, and then laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.
This is the Gospel; mankind sinned against God the Father, we have been reconciled through God the Son and can receive, and are filled with, God the Spirit. The Apostles preached this from the beginning - even if they did not say, "I am teaching you about the trinity", that is clearly what they were doing. They believed in ONE God, not 3.

Well said. The other posters against the Trinity need to look at scripture properly instead of picking and choosing and twisting it to suit their own narrow beliefs!!

 

[Goatee]

He is a created being that is made Lord over the creation of the Father, who alone is the one true God. Amen.

Obviously you do not read scripture correctly!

 

[MerriestHouse]

No. Is that relevant?

You cannot have a Trinity without three. Trinity - triune - three. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Isn't that the doctrine of the Trinity?

No, that's one way of reading it; it doesn't clearly say/mean that at all.
Jesus also said, "if you have seen me", ie the Son of Man who came from heaven, "you have seen the Father."

The passage means exactly what it says. Jesus said to Thomas and Philip: "whoever believes in me believes not in me but in the one who sent me, and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me." John 12:45. Jesus is "the image of God" 2 Corinthians 4:4. Colossians 1:15, Jesus is "the image of the invisible God." When people look at us they should see Christ.

An image of a person is not the person. No person has looked on God and lived.

Jesus is the perfect mediator between God and us. He knows exactly how we feel and what we go through. He lived on earth as a man, he was tempted as a man, without sinning, he suffered as a man, and he physically died as a man.

If Jesus is NOT God, then we are trusting that a mere man has the ability to reconcile us with the Father, take away our sins, overcome the devil and grant us eternal life. If it was only a man who died on the cross, he has achieved nothing - having been crucified for blasphemy. God raised Jesus from the dead to prove that he was exactly who he had claimed to be, and has exalted him above all things and given him the name that is above every name.
No other human being in the entire history of the world could achieve what Jesus did and be exalted as he was.

If Jesus was not worthy because he was a man, there is no hope for us. Jesus was the mortal human being, the Lamb who died. By that definition, he cannot be the one immortal God of all creation. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Jesus, not God, is the alpha and omega who died. God cannot die. 1 Timothy 6:16 God is not turned into two or three persons because God never changes.

Jesus was fully man and fully God - not easy to understand, but nothing else makes sense. Like I said, how can someone who is simply a man, no matter how anointed, reconcile us to the Father and give us eternal life?

If Jesus was not God when he was on earth, who was he?

He was the selected sacrifice for sin, the sinless human being, the Lamb crucified." That's the good news, the gospel. His mission was to redeem us, to reconcile us to God, and his mission was accomplished, because he rose from the grave. Believers have eternal life through his resurrection.

Luke 2:9 "And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with fear. 10 And the angel said to them, "Be not afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people; 11 for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."

 

[Goatee]

You cannot have a Trinity without three. Trinity - triune - three. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Isn't that the doctrine of the Trinity?



The passage means exactly what it says. Jesus said to Thomas and Philip: "whoever believes in me believes not in me but in the one who sent me, and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me." John 12:45. Jesus is "the image of God" 2 Corinthians 4:4. Colossians 1:15, Jesus is "the image of the invisible God." When people look at us they should see Christ.

An image of a person is not the person. No person has looked on God and lived.

Jesus is the perfect mediator between God and us. He knows exactly how we feel and what we go through. He lived on earth as a man, he was tempted as a man, without sinning, he suffered as a man, and he physically died as a man.



If Jesus was not worthy because he was a man, there is no hope for us. Jesus was the mortal human being, the Lamb who died. By that definition, he cannot be the one immortal God of all creation. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Jesus, not God, is the alpha and omega who died. God cannot die. 1 Timothy 6:16 God is not turned into two or three persons because God never changes.



He was the selected sacrifice for sin, the sinless human being, the Lamb crucified." That's the good news, the gospel. His mission was to redeem us, to reconcile us to God, and his mission was accomplished, because he rose from the grave. Believers have eternal life through his resurrection.

Luke 2:9 "And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with fear. 10 And the angel said to them, "Be not afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people; 11 for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/jesus-is-god

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-trinity

http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/explaining-the-trinity

Some links to help you understand the Trinty, Jesus and Scripture. God bless you buddy

 

[MerriestHouse]

No they weren't.
Jesus told the disciples to baptise in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The trinity is involved in, and necessary for, our salvation. <snip>

This is why I was asking about the Holy Spirit. It seems like the focus for Trinity folks is Jesus is God. Not much is said about the Holy Spirit who is supposedly an equal.

 

[Berean777]

without boasting about anything of myself, when i speak a God's word i speak from revelation as a man who has exercised faith in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ for many years, and They did not give me to believe in that doctrine of trinity according to which the Holy Spirit is a single person like the Father and the Son, the Son was born in this word about 2 millennia ago and had worked here as a Messiah so that many people could see Him, but the Holy Spirit is not presented as such a person, but it's said It is a spirit, moreover, the Spirit of the true God Himself, as in this verse: "what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."(1 Cor 2:11), from which it is evident the Holy Spirit is just the spirit of God Himself, in other words, His hands with which He takes care of the humans, that is why the Holy Spirit is represented in the Bible as a dove that flies coming from the heaven i.e. with outstretched wings, because the dove with outstretched wings looks like two palms, as in this picture:

Blessings

Hello friend I just wanted to highlight below what you stated in your post....

from which it is evident the Holy Spirit is just the spirit of God Himself, in other words, His hands with which He takes care of the humans

If we say hands, then we can also say works and if we say works, then we need to associate a person behind those works, right?

The question then arises to who the person is behind those works, right?

You say it is God behind those works, so we need to find from scripture who the personhood of God is, since our God is not the unknowable god of Islam or the god of the many false religions of the world, our God is a personal God which scripture declares is knowable by his sheep.....

No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." (Jeremiah 31:34) (Hebrews 8:11)

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. (John 10:27)

So who is the person of God the Spirit, is he the Father? Is he the Son? Or is he the Spirit?

Well in scripture John quotes Jesus, who highlights this point by using human sense of sight and the discernment of knowing and to accepting a person on a personal level.....

The Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Is the personhood of the Spirit of truth the Son, because the Son said he must leave before the Father can send the Spirit of truth, right? (John 16:7)

So the personhood of the Spirit is distinct from the Son, right there and then. Additionally if the personhood of the Father is sending the Spirit, after he had sent and recalled the personhood of the Son, then the personhood of the Spirit is distinct from the personhood of the Father who sent him and the personhood of the Son who needed to leave before the Father could send the personhood of the Spirit in the first place.

Can you see that there are in fact three distinct personhoods at play, who are the one God.

The church fathers who were very versed in scripture knew that there was in fact three distinct persons within the one infinite Godbeing. How this is, has not been revealed and we probably will never know.

Now to recap your statement that I drew upon, in relation to the PERSONAL works of God, requiring a knowable person to be behind those works, as you said the hands of God.

Who is this person behind those works?

Fortunately within the same context of the giving of the Holy Ghost on Pentecost in John chapter 14, we can establish whose works are being manifested in the believers.

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. (John 14:12)

So Jesus is going to the Father, who will send another..............

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (John 14:16)

The Father will give you, by sending you ANOTHER Comforter. Another to whom, one might say?

Another person, in place of the personhood of the Son. Obviously if the Father is sending ANOTHER, it also means ANOTHER to the Father himself, who is the sender of the Comforter.

So when we put one and one and one together we get three persona's or there distinct persons who are at play and the Comforter is the person working in us. His name is the I Am, the same name of the Father and the Son, because all three are the one Godbeing Yahweh.

 

[Berean777]

The Apostle Paul (who is strictly a Jewish monotheist who believed "To us there is one God, the Father and no other God besides Him) repeats that same view of God as a single person in 1 Timothy 2:5 "There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Messiah Jesus."

Paul is careful to say that there is "one Lord Jesus Christ." The first one, God the Father who is the Lord God of the Shema. Then there is the one Lord Christ who is Jesus, now exalted to the right hand of the One God. For us, there are two Lords but only one God. The second Lord cannot also be God. The Father and the Son are not Lords in the same sense.

He is the Lord Messiah and he is given that designation by the angel when he was born. "Today is born to you a Savior, who is the Lord Christ." Luke 2:11 Not, the Lord God. Jesus is God's anointed.

Sarah called Abraham Lord. She was not calling him God.

God is the only one who is worshipped and not created lords many. The Lord Jesus Christ who is worshipped has equality with the Father and if equality with the Father, then he is God almighty.

Philippians 2:6
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

 

[Berean777]

So it all comes down to the question of worship. If Jesus Christ is worshipped, then he cannot be a creature for it will be breaking the 1st commandment to worship a created being, doing so is idolatry. The Father can't even say worship a created being, that would go against his words. It would be like placing an idol in his place to be worshipped.

So the question of worship is proof positive that Jesus Christ is worshipped and that the Father is OK with that, unless people can prove otherwise from scripture.

 

[Strong in Him]

He is a created being that is made Lord over the creation of the Father, who alone is the one true God. Amen.

According to John, he is God, John 1:1-2. "And the word was GOD".
According to Isaiah, in a prophecy quoted every Christmas ;"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6.
According to the author of Hebrews, Jesus is the heir of all things, through whom the universe was made, and the exact representation of God, Hebrews 1:1-2.
According to Revelation, both Jesus and God are described as the Alpha and Omega.
According to the Jews in Jesus's time, he was blasphemous because he claimed to be God. So first they tried to stone him, then they had him crucified.

 

[cgaviria]

According to John, he is God, John 1:1-2. "And the word was GOD".
According to Isaiah, in a prophecy quoted every Christmas ;"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6.
According to the author of Hebrews, Jesus is the heir of all things, through whom the universe was made, and the exact representation of God, Hebrews 1:1-2.
According to Revelation, both Jesus and God are described as the Alpha and Omega.
According to the Jews in Jesus's time, he was blasphemous because he claimed to be God. So first they tried to stone him, then they had him crucified.

Jesus Christ is indeed God, because he is made God by God. No different than how Moses was made God by God,

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (Exodus 7:1 [KJV])

Yet Jesus Christ is the highest of all created beings, therefore he is higher God than even Moses.

 

[Strong in Him]

This is why I was asking about the Holy Spirit. It seems like the focus for Trinity folks is Jesus is God. Not much is said about the Holy Spirit who is supposedly an equal.

He is an equal.
He is referred to as the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, the comforter and the counsellor. In addition, in Acts 16, he is called the Spirit of Jesus.

What do you want people to say; the Father, the Son and George?

 

[MerriestHouse]

Well said. The other posters against the Trinity need to look at scripture properly instead of picking and choosing and twisting it to suit their own narrow beliefs!!

Ahem! I am a child of God and I search for truth. I can change my mind as I have many times in the past. If the facts are there, I can be persuaded.

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus Christ is indeed God, because he is made God by God. No different than how Moses was made God by God

Moses wasn't made God by God. Moses died - and you have previously said that God can't die. And he was forbidden from going into the Promised land because he sinned, and God can't sin.

 

[Berean777]

This is why I was asking about the Holy Spirit. It seems like the focus for Trinity folks is Jesus is God. Not much is said about the Holy Spirit who is supposedly an equal.

There is a very good reason why not much is said in regards to the Comforter in the apostles writings, because the Spirit who came on Pentecost revealed himself personally to the apostles and every believer, as declared in John 14:17. In this regard, they needed not to write an autobiography about him because of what scripture stated within the context of the pouring out of the Spirit of God on Pentecost.....

Jeremiah 31:33-34
This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” (Hebrews 8:11) (Ezekiel 26:27)

In fact if people are saying today, especially 2000 years after Pentecost that the Holy Ghost is unknowable to them because they can't read much about him in the apostles writings are unwittingly testifying about themselves the following..........

The Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. (John 14:17)

So the questions that are begging are....

Why we CANNOT ACCEPT HIM today?
Why we CANNOT SEE HIM today?
Why do we NOT KNOW HIM today?

 

[cgaviria]

Moses wasn't made God by God. Moses died - and you have previously said that God can't die. And he was forbidden from going into the Promised land because he sinned, and God can't sin.

Jesus Christ died too. And he was also resurrected. Moses died, and he too, will be resurrected.

 

[Commander Xenophon]

He is a created being that is made Lord over the creation of the Father, who alone is the one true God. Amen.

Not true, John 1:3 expressly refutes this argument of yours. Which perhaps explains why, contrary to all manuscript evidence, you want us to believe it to be a forgery.