The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

[Rick Otto]

Rick, your repeating yourself and not answering the question. Are you doing anything to be saved and continue in the state of being saved.

No, not that I can take personal credit for.

Did you mean to ask me, or Steeno?

 

[Rick Otto]

Obviously



I wasn't "once" saved. I am continually being saved.

I've never heard that before. Ever. lol

Whaddaya mean?

 

[Steeno7]

Rick, your repeating yourself and not answering the question. Are you doing anything to be saved and continue in the state of being saved.

Whose Rick??

I am continuing to live in Christ just as I received Christ, by grace through faith. (Col 2:6)

 

[Steeno7]

I've never heard that before. Ever. lol

Whaddaya mean?

It means there will never be a time when I will not need the Savior to be who He is, doing what He does, saving me.

 

[-57]

Actually it is not hard to obey God. But the Bible also says narrow is the way that leads into life and FEW be there that find it. OSAS is the popular wide gate path.

...

So, you obey God 100% of the time? You do know your post make it sound like you do...and that is also the requirement for gaining salvation.

Your post also make it sound like if you sin...then you're not really a christian...

Am I correct in reading you?

 

[-57]

Actually, it is the majority belief, my friend. Most churches here in America believe in OSAS (Which is not in the Bible) ....rest snipped
....

It's in the bible....
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

 

[Rick Otto]

Here's a somewhat decent link about it:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints

 

[FreeGrace2]

As for a person being "once saved" (or a one time acceptance of salvation) at that point in believing in Jesus and the gospel or accepting Him into your heart: Well, it means exactly that. When someone is saying they were "once saved" as a part of "always saved", they are not saying they were saved only at one point in time and then they lost it.

For good reason. When we accept God's gift of eternal life (Rom 6:23), we KNOW that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29). But the "loss of salvation" ilk either ignore that fact or reject it outright.

For example: I can say, "once divorced, always divorced." Why? Because most people do not remarry the person that they divorce and they will always be divorced to that person even if they choose to remarry another person.

Another ploy by that ilk: use an example that doesn't fit anything in Scripture. Why doesn't it? Because God HATES divorce.

Matt 19:7,8 - 7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

iow, God only permitted divorce because of the people's hardness of heart. Divorce was not part of creation from the beginning.

So, using divorce as an example of the Bride of Christ being in ANY WAY divorced from Christ is ludicrous, as it was NOT THIS WAY from the beginning.

Now can you say a person was "once saved" and then they lost their salvation by their own choice? Yes.

Not even a shred of evidence from Scripture about losing salvation by ANY choice or reason.

That is a truth that is taught to us in the Bible. There are many verses that talk about believers falling away.

The continuing fallacy that "falling away" includes loss of salvation. Not any Scripture contains anything about losing salvation for those who fall away. The assumption is simply absurd.

It is one of the many reasons why I disagree with Once Saved Always Saved (or Eternal Security). ....

There is no reason to disagree with eternal security, since the Bible clearly teaches it.

Those who believe in Christ will NOT come into condemnation (Jesus' words, not mine) in John 5:24. Those who have believed have their sins COVERED, which Jason won't address in Rom 4:7 - “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, And whose sins have been covered.

For Jason and those of his ilk, salvation is based on sinless perfection. But the BIBLE says that the believer's sins HAVE BEEN COVERED.

Why won't Jason address this verse? Because it refutes his views and he cannot explain this verse.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Saved by hope.

Nope. We're saved by grace through faith in Christ. Biblical hope is confidence that we ARE saved. Not will be saved.

Acts 16:31 tells us how to be saved.

 

[faither]

He needs to be a little more specific in what he is saying. Believe what about God's Word? Obviously, I am sure he means the gospel. But this the key ingredient or detail that needs to be there so as not confuse others (who may not know or who may take his word at face value).

While most believers repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior by way of prayer (like myself), a person can also just believe on Jesus as their Savior so as to be saved, too (See John 1:12).

As for a person being "once saved" (or a one time acceptance of salvation) at that point in believing in Jesus and the gospel or accepting Him into your heart: Well, it means exactly that. When someone is saying they were "once saved" as a part of "always saved", they are not saying they were saved only at one point in time and then they lost it.

For example: I can say, "once divorced, always divorced." Why? Because most people do not remarry the person that they divorce and they will always be divorced to that person even if they choose to remarry another person.

Now can you say a person was "once saved" and then they lost their salvation by their own choice? Yes. That is a truth that is taught to us in the Bible. There are many verses that talk about believers falling away. It is one of the many reasons why I disagree with Once Saved Always Saved (or Eternal Security).


....

Hi Jason, thanks for the reply. Your the first person to answer the question. Your saying that "believing " is what takes us from unsaved to saved. Is that correct? Saying that I've done nothing, I just cant accept that as an answer. And I wasn't asking for any lost salvation scenarios in this discussion, only what we have to do to be saved.

thanks jay

 

[Rick Otto]

Hi Jason, thanks for the reply. Your the first person to answer the question. Your saying that "believing " is what takes us from unsaved to saved. Is that correct? Saying that I've done nothing, I just cant accept that as an answer. And I wasn't asking for any lost salvation scenarios in this discussion, only what we have to do to be saved.

thanks jay

The question is based on the false premise that we are saved by what we do, instead of what God does.
John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[faither]

Nope. We're saved by grace through faith in Christ. Biblical hope is confidence that we ARE saved. Not will be saved.

Acts 16:31 tells us how to be saved.

Hi Fg2, would you share your understanding of Acts 16:31." Saved by Grace through Faith". We have nothing to do with the free Grace gifted to us, what about Faith? Is Faith something we must do to be saved in your understanding?

 

[faither]

The question is based on the false premise that we are saved by what we do, instead of what God does.
John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ok, your with Brian in that we do nothing from birth to be saved?

 

[Rick Otto]

Hi Fg2, would you share your understanding of Acts 16:31." Saved by Grace through Faith". We have nothing to do with the free Grace gifted to us, what about Faith? Is Faith something we must do to be saved in your understanding?

That's right, we have no redeeming value that influences God decision to save us.
You misspeak... it is not that we have 'nothing to do with the free grace gifted to us" simply by the fact we are undeserving, even unwilling recipients. It is that we have nothing to do with why, when, where, or how He decides to have mercy on us by imparting this irresistible gift.

 

[faither]

The question is based on the false premise that we are saved by what we do, instead of what God does.
John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I'm not discussing what God does, (Grace). I'm asking what our part is. Please read my questions before posting on them, thanks.

 

[Rick Otto]

Ok, your with Brian in that we do nothing from birth to be saved?

Right. Ephesians 1:4 or thereabouts, describes God electing whom to save before creation.
Creation is planned beginning to end. God is not trying to deal with an accident.

 

[Rick Otto]

I'm not discussing what God does, (Grace). I'm asking what our part is. Please read my questions before posting on them, thanks.

If you're discussing grace, you're discussing what God does. I told you what the bible says our part is.
Please dispense with the condescending remarks and stop playing games with semantic vagueness.
You aren't the least bit good at it.

 

[-57]

The question is based on the false premise that we are saved by what we do, instead of what God does.
John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I might add, we can't even believe unless we are given by God the faith to believe.

 

[faither]

That's right, we have no redeeming value that influences God decision to save us.
You misspeak... it is not that we have 'nothing to do with the free grace gifted to us" simply by the fact we are undeserving, even unwilling recipients. It is that we have nothing to do with why, when, where, or how He decides to have mercy on us by imparting this irresistible gift.

Ok rick, your misrepresenting my question. the discussion between us is kind of going in circles. I appreciate your replies though. I 've got you down as we do nothing to have Salvation. I do have a point to all this, and i'll get to it when we have a consciences on what we do or not do to be Saved. I've got 2 say we do nothing and one that says we are saved by Grace through Faith. I'm just waiting for his understanding on what Faith is.

 

[-57]

Ok rick, your misrepresenting my question. the discussion between us is kind of going in circles. I appreciate your replies though. I 've got you down as we do nothing to have Salvation. I do have a point to all this, and i'll get to it when we have a consciences on what we do or not do to be Saved. I've got 2 say we do nothing and one that says we are saved by Grace through Faith. I'm just waiting for his understanding on what Faith is.

Eph 2:8 applies....For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,