Can we reach a compromise regarding abortion?

[ml5363]

People were lynched during the Civil Rights Movement. An entire race of people was terrorized and segregated. I think that was a bit worse than the current disagreements over abortion.

The only division is in dealing with politicians who are trying to erode people's constitutional rights.



Prohibition of alcohol didn't work, and the prohibition of abortion will not work. Legislating morality doesn't work. If you want to stop abortions then you need to win people's hearts. Using the iron fist of laws won't work.

exactly , when people feel (made) to do something when they oppose it most...

 

[Loudmouth]

If a patient and a doctor decided to put grandma to sleep,

That would make grandma the patient. If grandma requests euthanasia, I am actually in support of that.

or to shoot up together during the lunch hour,

Not a medical decision.

 

[Loudmouth]

exactly , when people feel (made) to do something when they oppose it most...

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but are you saying that people are being forced to have abortions?

 

[Albion]

Not a medical decision.

Ah, so the qualifications and requirements begin. Then the next one. And then there's nothing but an ideal behind the "patient and doctor" talk.

 

[ml5363]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but are you saying that people are being forced to have abortions?

not that they are forced to have abortions, but when folks are told not to do something or they can't do something..makes people more inclined to try or do it..not that folks will do it just bc they were told not to...I believe abortion is wrong, and would not do it...but I believe we are not peoples judge, god is...we all have right to choice and I believe all should have that choice..but we should encourage them not to do it..and tell people we believe it is morally wrong and bad..but in the end they need to choice for themself...

 

[ananda]

The only real compromise would be for individuals to decide for themselves as to the ethics and morality regarding abortion. Individuals should be free to live according to their own personal belief, and not pursue enforcement of their belief as mandatory for all others.

 

[Loudmouth]

Ah, so the qualifications and requirements begin.

Doing illegal drugs has never been considered a medical treatment.

 

[Loudmouth]

not that they are forced to have abortions, but when folks are told not to do something or they can't do something..makes people more inclined to try or do it..not that folks will do it just bc they were told not to...I believe abortion is wrong, and would not do it...but I believe we are not peoples judge, god is...we all have right to choice and I believe all should have that choice..but we should encourage them not to do it..and tell people we believe it is morally wrong and bad..but in the end they need to choice for themself...

I agree with most of that. I wish that abortions never happened. However, a governmental ban just won't work. It didn't work. The best way to stop abortions is to support single mothers, have effective sex education, and easy access to contraception. If history has shown us anything it is that teenagers are going to have sex, and they are the most vulnerable when it comes to unplanned pregnancies.

 

[Vicomte13]

Is there any way that we can reach a compromise on the issue? Please complete the poll and explain your answers. For example, even if you personally oppose abortion would you be willing to allow legal abortions in cases where the life of the pregnant woman is in danger? Why or why not?

I do not believe that compromise is possible. The fundamental problem is that God revealed that life begins at conception. Therefore, to intentionally terminate a pregnancy is to intentionally kill an innocent human being.

In war sometimes this happens, and we excuse it as "collateral damage" because, we say, there is no way to fight an enemy without innocent civilians getting killed in the crossfire. Even if we accept that argument as a legitimate reason why soldiers in a war are not killers, it doesn't apply to abortion: there is no war. A woman wants to kill her innocent baby. She does not need to kill her baby in order to preserve her own life except in the rarest of circumstances (under which a self-defense exception could be made to permit abortion to save the life on the mother, only). She wants to for other reasons.

We don't allow civilians in peacetime to kill other civilians in peacetime even if their happiness depends on it. And we should not permit the premeditated slaying of a child in the womb either - not if we're going to listen to God.

Most people prefer the convenience of abortion over God, so we have legal abortion available on demand, and we slaughter about 2 million babies a year in the USA.

Of course there can be no compromise on the matter, just as there could never be any compromise on slavery, and there cannot be compromise on other murder.

As long as pro-abortion people are in the majority, we will have abortion on demand, the slaughter will continue, killer doctors and nurses will make a good living doing it, and people will be casting their spirits into the Lake of Fire at final judgment because they willfully slew others.

When pro-abortion people are no longer in the majority, abortion will be outlawed and abortionists punished.

Compromise is not possible. It is a pure test of power, between good and evil. Evil currently rules the day, and as long as the evil are ascendant, it will do so.

 

[Armoured]

I do not believe that compromise is possible. The fundamental problem is that God revealed that life begins at conception. Therefore, to intentionally terminate a pregnancy is to intentionally kill an innocent human being.

In war sometimes this happens, and we excuse it as "collateral damage" because, we say, there is no way to fight an enemy without innocent civilians getting killed in the crossfire. Even if we accept that argument as a legitimate reason why soldiers in a war are not killers, it doesn't apply to abortion: there is no war. A woman wants to kill her innocent baby. She does not need to kill her baby in order to preserve her own life except in the rarest of circumstances (under which a self-defense exception could be made to permit abortion to save the life on the mother, only). She wants to for other reasons.

We don't allow civilians in peacetime to kill other civilians in peacetime even if their happiness depends on it. And we should not permit the premeditated slaying of a child in the womb either - not if we're going to listen to God.

Most people prefer the convenience of abortion over God, so we have legal abortion available on demand, and we slaughter about 2 million babies a year in the USA.

Of course there can be no compromise on the matter, just as there could never be any compromise on slavery, and there cannot be compromise on other murder.

As long as pro-abortion people are in the majority, we will have abortion on demand, the slaughter will continue, killer doctors and nurses will make a good living doing it, and people will be casting their spirits into the Lake of Fire at final judgment because they willfully slew others.

When pro-abortion people are no longer in the majority, abortion will be outlawed and abortionists punished.

Compromise is not possible. It is a pure test of power, between good and evil. Evil currently rules the day, and as long as the evil are ascendant, it will do so.

Where/when did God "reveal life begins at conception "?

 

[Vicomte13]

Where/when did God "reveal life begins at conception "?

In Genesis and throughout the text.
You have to read carefully and critically, and remember that God is the author, and God speaks precisely.

Go to the table of nations, whereby the descendants of Adam and his sons are described.

Read how lives are described: Adam begat Seth. Seth begat..., Methuselah begat..., etc.
When God revealed the distant origins of mankind to the writers of Scripture, he did so speaking in terms of chains of family linkage down through the ages.

By doing so, he showed that all of mankind everywhere on earth are, at root, first cousins (however many times removed). All of the people we kill in war, then, are our own family, LITERALLY.

Now, look carefully at how God revealed the lineages. He did so through the MALE principles. A woman bears a baby over the course of nine months, then gives birth, but a MAN begets a child at one specific instant, when his sperm joins with the egg to conceive a baby.

The male has no further part to play in reproduction other than that begetting. Begetting is not the sex act, for not every sex act results in a child. Indeed, most do not. Begetting by a male is the specific point where the MALE principles brings a child into being, and that only occurs at precisely one moment in a child's life: conception.

A woman bears a child over the course of 40 weeks, but a man begets a child at the moment of conception only, and is thereafter no longer NECESSARILY involved in that child's existence.

Every life in the Bible, including the life of Jesus, is measured from the moment of its BEGETTING, by the FATHER not its BIRTH from the Mother.

The Bible is inspired by God, and God knew what he was doing when he decided to pin human life to the MALE begetting, because that is a single precise moment, and no other. Female childbearing is long, but male childbearing occurs only at one instant: fertilization. That is begetting. And God revealed all human lives in the Bible as beginning at the FATHER'S begetting, which is conception.

That is where.

 

[Belk]

Ah, so the qualifications and requirements begin. Then the next one. And then there's nothing but an ideal behind the "patient and doctor" talk.

Which of your medical decisions do you feel I should be privy to?

 

[Belk]

In Genesis and throughout the text.
You have to read carefully and critically, and remember that God is the author, and God speaks precisely.

Go to the table of nations, whereby the descendants of Adam and his sons are described.

Read how lives are described: Adam begat Seth. Seth begat..., Methuselah begat..., etc.
When God revealed the distant origins of mankind to the writers of Scripture, he did so speaking in terms of chains of family linkage down through the ages.

By doing so, he showed that all of mankind everywhere on earth are, at root, first cousins (however many times removed). All of the people we kill in war, then, are our own family, LITERALLY.

Now, look carefully at how God revealed the lineages. He did so through the MALE principles. A woman bears a baby over the course of nine months, then gives birth, but a MAN begets a child at one specific instant, when his sperm joins with the egg to conceive a baby.

The male has no further part to play in reproduction other than that begetting. Begetting is not the sex act, for not every sex act results in a child. Indeed, most do not. Begetting by a male is the specific point where the MALE principles brings a child into being, and that only occurs at precisely one moment in a child's life: conception.

A woman bears a child over the course of 40 weeks, but a man begets a child at the moment of conception only, and is thereafter no longer NECESSARILY involved in that child's existence.

Every life in the Bible, including the life of Jesus, is measured from the moment of its BEGETTING, by the FATHER not its BIRTH from the Mother.

The Bible is inspired by God, and God knew what he was doing when he decided to pin human life to the MALE begetting, because that is a single precise moment, and no other. Female childbearing is long, but male childbearing occurs only at one instant: fertilization. That is begetting. And God revealed all human lives in the Bible as beginning at the FATHER'S begetting, which is conception.

That is where.

We are talking about the same God who said we should bludgeon people to death with rocks if they worked on the wrong day? Somehow does not seem the kind of guy you have to parse carefully to ensure you get the right message. If he was worried about abortion I think he might of mentioned it rather directly.

 

[Armoured]

In Genesis and throughout the text.
You have to read carefully and critically, and remember that God is the author, and God speaks precisely.

Go to the table of nations, whereby the descendants of Adam and his sons are described.

Read how lives are described: Adam begat Seth. Seth begat..., Methuselah begat..., etc.
When God revealed the distant origins of mankind to the writers of Scripture, he did so speaking in terms of chains of family linkage down through the ages.

By doing so, he showed that all of mankind everywhere on earth are, at root, first cousins (however many times removed). All of the people we kill in war, then, are our own family, LITERALLY.

Now, look carefully at how God revealed the lineages. He did so through the MALE principles. A woman bears a baby over the course of nine months, then gives birth, but a MAN begets a child at one specific instant, when his sperm joins with the egg to conceive a baby.

The male has no further part to play in reproduction other than that begetting. Begetting is not the sex act, for not every sex act results in a child. Indeed, most do not. Begetting by a male is the specific point where the MALE principles brings a child into being, and that only occurs at precisely one moment in a child's life: conception.

A woman bears a child over the course of 40 weeks, but a man begets a child at the moment of conception only, and is thereafter no longer NECESSARILY involved in that child's existence.

Every life in the Bible, including the life of Jesus, is measured from the moment of its BEGETTING, by the FATHER not its BIRTH from the Mother.

The Bible is inspired by God, and God knew what he was doing when he decided to pin human life to the MALE begetting, because that is a single precise moment, and no other. Female childbearing is long, but male childbearing occurs only at one instant: fertilization. That is begetting. And God revealed all human lives in the Bible as beginning at the FATHER'S begetting, which is conception.

That is where.

Baloney.

 

[Vicomte13]

We are talking about the same God who said we should bludgeon people to death with rocks if they worked on the wrong day? Somehow does not seem the kind of guy you have to parse carefully to ensure you get the right message. If he was worried about abortion I think he might of mentioned it rather directly.

He did mention it directly: you shall not kill. He always speaks of babies in the womb as persons - saying that he knew us when we were in the womb, telling us how John the Baptist leapt for joy in his mother's womb when brought into the presence of Jesus in his mother's womb, prescribing the death penalty for the man who, in a fight with another man, strikes a pregnant woman causing premature birth in which the baby or the mother are killed.

God set one general rule prohibiting man from killing man, and then made a narrow generic exception for the execution of those who kill other men. Jesus told his apostles to arm themselves with swords for their protection, but warned them against taking up the sword. Within the boundaries of his kingdom of ancient Israel, God imposed the death penalty for other crimes, but God obliterated ancient Israel.

The case of unborn babies is very straightforward: they come into being when begotten, God knows them, and men are prohibited from killing other men except those adjudicated guilty of capital crimes - which babies cannot be for they are wholly innocent.

It's clear as day, really.

 

[Vicomte13]

Baloney.

Baloney?

When a man begets a child, when is that?

 

[pat34lee]

Do you have any actual evidence to support this? I am speaking of mainstream media, please don't provide links to right-wing fringe websites.

It's not a secret. Look for quotes by feminists like this one:

"I have to admit that when I meet a woman who I know is a graduate of, say,
Princeton -- one who has read The Second Sex and therefore ought to know better --
but is still a full-time wife, I feel betrayed."

What a title for that article too.
"1% Wives Are Helping Kill Feminism and Make the War on Women Possible"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...sm-and-make-the-war-on-women-possible/258431/

 

[pat34lee]

Nothing like collapsing an entire diverse group to a single, easily demonised strawman, is there?

I can disprove your claim easily. I'M a modern feminist, and I support stay at home mothers.

Are you sure you're a 'modern' feminist? Maybe it's more the 'old guard'
today. I'm getting older and so are the man-haters.

Edit: Unless your info is wrong, you are male, and thus barred
from being any type of feminist. Unless you are like Bruce Jenner
in reverse.

 

[Kylie]

I crushed an acorn with a hammer. Did I destroy an oak tree?

 

[ecco]

Armoured said: ↑
Where/when did God "reveal life begins at conception "?

In Genesis and throughout the text.
You have to read carefully and critically, and remember that God is the author, and God speaks precisely.

Go to the table of nations, whereby the descendants of Adam and his sons are described.

Read how lives are described: Adam begat Seth. Seth begat..., Methuselah begat..., etc.
When God revealed the distant origins of mankind to the writers of Scripture, he did so speaking in terms of chains of family linkage down through the ages.

By doing so, he showed that all of mankind everywhere on earth are, at root, first cousins (however many times removed). All of the people we kill in war, then, are our own family, LITERALLY.
Now, look carefully at how God revealed the lineages. He did so through the MALE principles. A woman bears a baby over the course of nine months, then gives birth, but a MAN begets a child at one specific instant, when his sperm joins with the egg to conceive a baby.

The male has no further part to play in reproduction other than that begetting. Begetting is not the sex act, for not every sex act results in a child. Indeed, most do not. Begetting by a male is the specific point where the MALE principles brings a child into being, and that only occurs at precisely one moment in a child's life: conception.

A woman bears a child over the course of 40 weeks, but a man begets a child at the moment of conception only, and is thereafter no longer NECESSARILY involved in that child's existence.

Every life in the Bible, including the life of Jesus, is measured from the moment of its BEGETTING, by the FATHER not its BIRTH from the Mother.

The Bible is inspired by God, and God knew what he was doing when he decided to pin human life to the MALE begetting, because that is a single precise moment, and no other. Female childbearing is long, but male childbearing occurs only at one instant: fertilization. That is begetting. And God revealed all human lives in the Bible as beginning at the FATHER'S begetting, which is conception.

That is where.

How interesting that you can arrive at this conclusion when Christian biblical scholars didn't.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/When_does_life_begin?#Christianity_and_Judaism

Traditionally for Christians, "a human becomes a person at ensoulment." In both ancient Hebrew tradition and early Christian tradition, ensoulment happened when the child took his or her first breath — the soul being directly equated with the breath of life.
​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_abortion#Christianity

There is scholarly disagreement on how early Christians felt about abortion. Some scholars have concluded that early Christians took a nuanced stance on what is now called abortion, and that at different times and in separate places early Christians have taken different stances.[8][9][10] Other scholars have concluded that early Christians considered abortion a sin at all stages; although there is disagreement over their thoughts on what type of sin it was[11][12][13][14] and how grave a sin it was held to be, it was seen as at least as grave as sexual immorality.[11][13] Some early Christians believed that the embryo did not have a soul from conception,[8][15][16][17] and consequently opinion was divided as to whether or not early abortion was murder or ethically equivalent to murder.[10][14]​

I guess you just understand the bible better than they did.