Question

[ecco]

I'm interested to hear if any non-believers have seriously considered believing in God based on an argument or reason they heard from someone else, either on these forums or elsewhere.

Pardon the late entry.

I would think that those of you who have been on these forums for an extended period of time would have come across some argument or reason that has brought you close to believing in God, but maybe the opposite is true, maybe all the arguments just reaffirm your non-belief.

I realized that god, santa and the easter bunny belonged in the same category when I was about nine years old following two sessions in Sunday school.

Nothing I have heard or read since then has changed my belief. Everything I have heard or read since then has only served to support my convictions.

I think explaining why one believes God does not exist is really difficult to the point of impossible, which is why many atheist claim non-belief, so they don't have to deal with explaining why they believe God does not exist. They instead say, its not true that they believe God does not exit, it's true that they don't believe in God.

Explaining why god does not exist is not difficult at all. Christians, like you, don't believe the Hindu gods exist. Do you find it difficult to explain why the Hindu gods do not exist? Remember, I believe in just one less god than you do.[/QUOTE]

 

[princess123]

With nothing but stories to go on, and having to toss out virtually all of mainstream science for them to be true, I think it is fair to say that it never happened.

Hi Davian, I see that you are responding to the question: "Is it fair to say Jesus has not interacted with the world?"

Are you saying that Jesus having lived is a story which you believe to have never happened?

 

[princess123]

Pardon the late entry.



I realized that god, santa and the easter bunny belonged in the same category when I was about nine years old following two sessions in Sunday school.

hmmm, in my opinion, there is a huge distinction between santa, the easter bunny, and God. Both Santa and the easter bunny have been made up by adults, they are mythical figures and nobody (other than children, of course) has ever claimed that either of these actually exist. In addition, their origins can be dated back to a particular time (not too long ago in comparison to the belief in God ).
God on the other hand, is someone who is respected, acknowledged, loved by, and believed in by many adults and children worldwide (2 billion), and can be traced back to 2345 BCE which doesn’t even include the lineage of Adam until the time of Noah which is in the THOUSANDS of years. The belief in God has existed and continues to exist, and many people are 100% certain that God exists. The God I speak of, has been followed by many until TODAY. I'm not referring to the other gods, which have come and gone or to the gods which don't have nearly as many followers....


Nothing I have heard or read since then has changed my belief. Everything I have heard or read since then has only served to support my convictions.

Just curious, what specifically have you heard or read that supports your convictions?





Explaining why god does not exist is not difficult at all. Christians, like you, don't believe the Hindu gods exist. Do you find it difficult to explain why the Hindu gods do not exist? Remember, I believe in just one less god than you do.

[/QUOTE]

 

[ml5363]

I haven't yet come across any argument that has convinced me of something I not only have never experienced, but also believe is nonsensical.

you have to be open to the possibilty and beliefs in order to receive anything from it..like I tell other friends you can read the bible 1000 times and pray as well but until you have your heart ready and open to god will you received...

 

[ecco]

hmmm, in my opinion, there is a huge distinction between santa, the easter bunny, and God. Both Santa and the easter bunny have been made up by adults, they are mythical figures and nobody (other than children, of course) has ever claimed that either of these actually exist. In addition, their origins can be dated back to a particular time (not too long ago in comparison to the belief in God ).

All gods are mythical figures that have been made up by adults. Many from long before the Hebrews ever wrote Genesis. If you do not believe that gods are mythical figures made up by adults, then am I correct in assuming that you believe the Hindu gods are real?

God on the other hand, is someone who is respected, acknowledged, loved by, and believed in by many adults and children worldwide (2 billion), and can be traced back to 2345 BCE which doesn’t even include the lineage of Adam until the time of Noah which is in the THOUSANDS of years. The belief in God has existed and continues to exist, and many people are 100% certain that God exists.

So old beliefs held by a lot of people are the deciding factor?

The real deciding factor is where you were born. People born in Western countries believe in "god". People in the Mid-East believe in Allah or are Jews. People in India are Hindus.

People believe in the god(s) that their parents told them were real since before the children could walk or read. Western children were also told Santa was real by these same people. As the children got older and saw many Santas and saw their parents buying presents, they asked questions and were told the truth - There is no Santa. As children got older, their parents just continued to reinforce the idea that THEIR God was the real one. But it goes far beyond just which god. It also goes to the right ways to worship him, which explains why there are hundreds of christian denominations. I'm sure that not all christians share your specific beliefs.

The God I speak of, has been followed by many until TODAY. I'm not referring to the other gods, which have come and gone or to the gods which don't have nearly as many followers....

If you lived in Rome 2000 years ago you would have had the same convictions about Venus and Apollo, for the same reasons.

Just curious, what specifically have you heard or read that supports your convictions?

Science. The bible.

 

[ml5363]

You are hoping to have evidence in the future that will demonstrate that virtually everything we know now is wrong? I can wait.

Yet you already believe, without evidence?

I think no one on earth will know it all before their death..that is why it is a faith based system... there is things that have happened to me that I can say give me proof that God exists..thats all I need..one day I can ask him and know all the answers..until then I wait...happy and enjoying his blessings he bestows upon me

 

[ml5363]

I was a very strong believer in God. Then that changed when I started reading more and investigating more and studying more and taking courses on religion and anthropology and opening up my world view beyond the Bible. I'm not here to dissuade anyone from believing, but you may be surprised what you find if you are willing to look behind the curtain.

I really don't think there is anything that anyone could say that would change my viewpoint about God and my not believing at this point and I used to be a pretty hardcore Christian. Obviously, if God himself floated down on a cloud and said "Hi Jenny," well, then I would believe

when you say you were hardcore , does that mean you believed, repented, and asked god into your heart..or that you were going thru the motions of being a christian? going to church does not make a person a christian..nor does being in choir, being a deacon, and even preaching...you have to have god in your heart to be a christian...

 

[katerinah1947]

I think no one on earth will know it all before their death..that is why it is a faith based system... there is things that have happened to me that I can say give me proof that God exists..thats all I need..one day I can ask him and know all the answers..until then I wait...happy and enjoying his blessings he bestows upon me

Hi,

I think that if you search hard into,

... there is things that have happened to me that I can say give me proof that God exists..

That will find there is more there than faith alone. There is more.

LOVE,

 

[popsthebuilder]

Pardon the late entry.



I realized that god, santa and the easter bunny belonged in the same category when I was about nine years old following two sessions in Sunday school.

Nothing I have heard or read since then has changed my belief. Everything I have heard or read since then has only served to support my convictions.







Explaining why god does not exist is not difficult at all. Christians, like you, don't believe the Hindu gods exist. Do you find it difficult to explain why the Hindu gods do not exist? Remember, I believe in just one less god than you do.

[/QUOTE]
There is ultimately only One Creator GOD. The Hindi understand this for the most part. The name for it in there culture is Brahmin I think.

Names are divisive.

There is only one GOD.
Generally Christians are the most confused and divisive in their lack of understanding of this very significant point, unfortunately.

They're coming around though, thank GOD.

Peace

 

[katerinah1947]

I'm interested to hear if any non-believers have seriously considered believing in God based on an argument or reason they heard from someone else, either on these forums or elsewhere.

I would think that those of you who have been on these forums for an extended period of time would have come across some argument or reason that has brought you close to believing in God, but maybe the opposite is true, maybe all the arguments just reaffirm your non-belief.

Do share if you want, thanks!

Hi,

Ooooooops!

I am bowing out. I answered someone here mistakenly. You were addressing non believers and asking inputs from them.

I didn't notice till just now.

Good Bye,

LOVE,

 

[Davian]

Hi Davian, I see that you are responding to the question: "Is it fair to say Jesus has not interacted with the world?"

Are you saying that Jesus having lived is a story which you believe to have never happened?

What story are you referring to? Do I dispute that there may have been an apocalyptic preacher, or preachers, on which the life of the Jesus character of the bible could have been based?

No.

 

[Davian]

I think no one on earth will know it all before their death..that is why it is a faith based system... there is things that have happened to me that I can say give me proof that God exists..thats all I need..one day I can ask him and know all the answers..until then I wait...happy and enjoying his blessings he bestows upon me

If you have proof, why do you need faith?

 

[ldonjohn]

I'm interested to hear if any non-believers have seriously considered believing in God based on an argument or reason they heard from someone else, either on these forums or elsewhere.

I would think that those of you who have been on these forums for an extended period of time would have come across some argument or reason that has brought you close to believing in God, but maybe the opposite is true, maybe all the arguments just reaffirm your non-belief.

Do share if you want, thanks!

I grew up attending a Baptist church where I heard about Jesus dying on a cross to save me from my sin so I would not go to hell. When I was a young adult I doubted that all I had heard in church was true or if God was real. I dismissed it all, went on with my life, and forgot about going to church.

Later in my life I found myself again questioning whether or not God is real or if the bible was true and although I wanted to dismiss it as unbelievable something inside of me was driving me to find the truth.

I started going to church occasionally and really listened to the messages. I even talked to the preacher about how to become a “believer.” I read several books about Christianity written by well known bible scholars and evangelists, listened to preachers on TV and radio. I did not know for sure if God was real, if the bible was true, or if Jesus Christ was really God who became a man. I found myself wanting to believe all of it but just did not understand how to do that. In all the reading I had done and all of the preaching I had heard the one thing that I was hearing over and over was that if I wanted to become a Christian I would have to turn from my sin and say a prayer to ask Jesus to forgive my sin and save me. Well I could not understand how saying a prayer would save me from sin and although I knew that I had sin in my life I could not completely turn from it. I could not find the truth, I wasn't sure if God was real or if the bible was true. For some reason I could not dismiss from my mind the possibility that if God is real & the bible is the truth that I just might end up in that place called hell; and that scared the hell out of me. My life became a life of confusion and misery.

After several years of living in that misery and trying to “believe” in something that I wanted to believe in, but was not convinced that it was true, I just gave up on all the things I was doing to find the truth about God, the bible, and Jesus. Out of a sense of helplessness I looked up at the ceiling in my bedroom one night and said a prayer to the God who I wasn't even sure existed. I said “God will you show me the truth about believing in Jesus?” That night I slept better that I had slept in a long time. The next day I did something I had never done at home; I picked up the large family bible that sat on a table in the living room collecting dust, opened it to the Book of John, and started reading.

I realize that some readers will say or think that I was not a real non-believer since I had a church background and actually wanted to become a “believer.” But, the word “believe” doesn't mean to simply acknowledge that God exists or that Jesus is the person he claimed to be. The word “believe” became the main reason for my confusion & misery after I decided I wanted to become a “believer.” No, I am not confused now; I'm just having difficulty explaining how I became a genuine believer in something that I thought that I would never understand nor would I ever know for sure if I believed it or not.

Now, to answer the question. I had heard & read many arguments from men about believing in God. None of those arguments convinced me that God is real. Nothing I read in books written by well known Christians like Dr. John R Rice or Dr. H A Ironsides convinced me to believe God exists or how to “believe” in Jesus.

Although I wasn't convinced that God is real or that the bible is true, the moment I turned to the Bible, earnestly seeking the truth about God, and began to read in John chapter 1, I realized that for the first time in my life I was understanding scripture. The Holy Spirit opened my blind spiritual eyes and showed me the truth from God's Word as I read John chapters 1- 6. I found the truth about God, the Bible, and Jesus. That day I was convinced that God is real, the Bible is the Truth, and that Jesus is God who became a Man to redeem the lost world back to Himself. No, Mr. Atheist, I did not convince myself. I had no idea of what was about to happen to me that day. As I said earlier, I thought that I would never know the truth about God. But, my life changed forever that day as I became a true believer in the Gospel message of Christ. I could say much more about my conversion, 35 years ago, from being a non-believer to becoming a genuine believer in Jesus, but I will just end with the following statement: It is impossible for a true believer in Christ to explain, in a way a non-believer can understand, the peace, assurance, and change that takes place in the believers' life the moment one is led by the Holy Spirit out of the darkness of unbelief into the light of the Gospel message. It is a life-changing moment that transforms the non-believer into a new life in Christ, and that believer is a real Christian, and could never become an atheist.

Sincerely,
Don

 

[katerinah1947]

If you have proof, why do you need faith?

Hi,

Trying very hard not to derail this thread, the answer is God does not give anyone, even me who has the proof of His Existence, all the proofs for all things connected to God.

He gives some proofs to some, no proofs to others, and in some case Belief with no proof to a very Blessed, according to God, few.

Now this thread was directed to non believers in a single topic.

The OP might want his thread back.

If he says otherwise, that is up to him.

LOVE,

 

[klatu]

I'm interested to hear if any non-believers have seriously considered believing in God based on an argument or reason they heard from someone else, either on these forums or elsewhere.

I would think that those of you who have been on these forums for an extended period of time would have come across some argument or reason that has brought you close to believing in God, but maybe the opposite is true, maybe all the arguments just reaffirm your non-belief.

Do share if you want, thanks!

While never being an unbeliever in the conventional sense, I did come to the conclusion that religious tradition had nothing to do with God and that theology was not even a valid human intellectual project; thus I left organized religion many many years ago. but instead of defaulting to atheism, more of a 'none' yet never closed my mind to the idea or plausibility of God. An when recently it was suggested to me that I check out some thing new on the God question that was circulating on the web, I had a look and have been studying the material ever sense.

It will be rather iconoclastic to those holding to an existing faith, but this fit perfectly into the conception of God I have always wanted to imagine and with potential theological traditions have never had. Here is a taste: 'As in the beginning' this teaching defines the very basis of a relationship between man and God, yet without any of the conventional trappings or artifice of tradition. An individual, spiritual virtue ethic, independent of all culture reference, contained within a single moral command, a universal moral Law, that finds its expression of obedience within a new Genesis of marriage between one man and one woman. It bypasses all institutional framework, charismatic leaders, clerical intrusion, churches or priestcraft, requires no scholastic theological rational, dogma or doctrine, needs no ones permission or license and stripped of all myth, worship requires only conviction, and the necessary self discipline and faith to accomplish a new, single moral imperative, then fidelity to the new divinely created reality." More at http://www.energon.org.uk

 

[ecco]

There is ultimately only One Creator GOD. The Hindi understand this for the most part. The name for it in there culture is Brahmin I think.

Names are divisive.

There is only one GOD.

Generally Christians are the most confused and divisive in their lack of understanding of this very significant point, unfortunately.

They're coming around though, thank GOD.

Peace

Every religion believes their god(s) to be the only real god(s).

Who do you think is coming around to what?

 

[ecco]

I grew up attending a Baptist church where I heard about Jesus dying on a cross to save me from my sin so I would not go to hell.

The things that are learned from a very early age stay with us. One cannot forget or ignore these things any more than one can unlearn or forget the language(s) they were raised in.

When I was a young adult I doubted that all I had heard in church was true or if God was real. I dismissed it all, went on with my life, and forgot about going to church.

Later in my life I found myself again questioning ...
I started going to church occasionally and really listened to the messages... My life became a life of confusion and misery.

After several years of living in that misery and trying to “believe” in something that I wanted to believe in,

The "wanting to believe" stems from your early years of being told that Jesus/God is real. If you had been raised in India, your early years would have been filled with beliefs in Brahma.

It is a life-changing moment that transforms the non-believer into a new life in Christ, and that believer is a real Christian, and could never become an atheist.

I'm sure that there are many ex-christians who believed as deeply as you do, who would be very offended being told that they were not "true believers".

 

[DogmaHunter]

You are insulting millions of Christians as stupid people.

I don't consider that to be insulting.

I'm for example pretty stupid when it comes to phenomena that I don't understand.
I'm absolutely positive that I hold at least one stupid belief.

I would thank the person who points it out to me, instead of telling him/her that (s)he's insulting me.

But perhaps that's just me.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Belief in God has strengthened within the scientific community lately.

Can you provide a reference for that claim?

Because the only polls I am aware of, show a negative correlation between level of religiosity and level of education, in all layers of the population.

Note: level of religiosity. This does not mean that the higher educated are all atheists. It rather means that on the one hand they are more likely to be atheist and on the other hand, if they are not atheists, then they are considerably less likely to be fundamentalist then those without higher levels of education.

Which again doesn't mean that there are no fundamentalists with phd's.

Are you really trying to say that believers are stupid?

I'ld say that believing things on bad evidence (or even no evidence) is a pretty stupid thing to do. Regardless what it is that is being believed.

And someone with an IQ through the roof is still perfectly capable of holding stupid beliefs. You need to make a distinction between calling someone stupid accross the board on the one hand, and calling someone's specific beliefs to be stupid.

They are not the same.
I'm pretty stupid when it comes to complex chemistry for example.
That's okay and it's not insulting. My IQ is above average and I don't mind being called "stupid" when it comes to things I'm stupid about.

Although I can agree that the word has a negative connotation and that there might be other words best suited that won't trigger feelings of personal attacks.

Do you realize how many faithful to GOD there actually are?

You mean the specific god YOU happen to believe in?
A global minority... Most people on this planet aren't christians. And most christians aren't part of the specific denomination that non-catholics adhere to.

What is the point in singling out Christianity in general?

Because most of us are westerners and christianity is the dominant religion in the west. And off course, the fact that this is called "christianforums".

Any can come to the knowledge of God by the will of God and faith in him.

If you say so.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Twist this around however you like; man is not the highest power obviously.

How do you know? Can you demonstrate to me a being of greater power then man?
(assuming that by "power" you mean an intellectual ability to reflect and ponder upon the universe and the workings thereof, the knowledge of which can then be used to create technology).

All existence follows order and direction observable through mathematics.

We humans invented mathematics out of our heads and it was designed and invented specifically to describe the workings of the universe / reality.

Math is not something one discovers under a rock. Math is human made.
In Newton's day, math was not capable of accuratly describing the orbital paths of celestial bodies. So he went ahead and invented calculus.

The Universe is thought to have expands from a seemingly infinitely smaller source. Even if you decide in Your human understanding that all came from mere chance then surely you can ascertain. That something greater than us gave and or gives us that chance.

Why?

What is your personal stance if you don't mind?

My personal stance is that it's is a waste of time and energy to ponder causal agents for which there is zero evidence.