Question

[Davian]

Good thing there's still more reality to be observed.

Such as?

 

[Chriliman]

Such as?

Reality in the future.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Are you familiar with the God that Christians describe? I'm a Christian so it's safe to assume I'm talking about Jesus.

Is it fair to say Jesus has not interacted with the world?

Oh for... You started out saying:
"So when someone wants to convince you that it's true that god does not exist..."

That could be anyone talking about any god. You could have saved a lot of time if you had been less vague.

Ok, let's cut to the chase. Do you believe your god possesses these characteristics which are typically associated with the Christian god?

1. Omnipotence - the ability to do anything logically possible.
2. Omniscience - the ability to know everything knowable.
3. Omnibenevolent - perfectly good and loving.

 

[Davian]

Reality in the future.

You are hoping to have evidence in the future that will demonstrate that virtually everything we know now is wrong? I can wait.

Yet you already believe, without evidence?

 

[Chriliman]

Oh for... You started out saying:
"So when someone wants to convince you that it's true that god does not exist..."

That could be anyone talking about any god. You could have saved a lot of time if you had been less vague.

Ok, let's cut to the chase. Do you believe your god possesses these characteristics which are typically associated with the Christian god?

1. Omnipotence - the ability to do anything logically possible.
2. Omniscience - the ability to know everything knowable.
3. Omnibenevolent - perfectly good and loving.

Yes all of the above. You wouldn't believe someone who had a soundly reasonable explanation for why this God does not exist, unless they could provide evidence of this God not existing?

 

[HitchSlap]

You claim to believe no God or gods exist right?

Right.

Yet you were not presented with evidence of an eternal God not existing,

Right.

so what's your belief based on,

Lack of evidence.

since it's not based on evidence?

Absence of evidence is sometimes evidence of absence.

Can you explain why you believe no God or gods exist?

No evidence.

Because I also accept soundly reasoned explanations as evidence of truth.

I don't think you do.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

One has to be humble and sincerely searching for God before God will reveal Himself to them. I think most non-believers don't want to believe in God since it would mean they'd have to make radical changes in their life which they don't want to do.

 

[Ana the Ist]

One has to be humble and sincerely searching for God before God will reveal Himself to them. I think most non-believers don't want to believe in God since it would mean they'd have to make radical changes in their life which they don't want to do.

By "radical changes" did you mean I'd have to start going around judging everyone according to my personal interpretation of scripture?

 

[Chriliman]

Absence of evidence is sometimes evidence of absence.

By this logic I could just as easily say that the lack of evidence that God does not exist, means God does exist. Based on your logic, you should agree, yet you don't, why is that?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

By "radical changes" did you mean I'd have to start going around judging everyone according to my personal interpretation of scripture?

It means the death of your former life and putting all of your trust in Jesus and following Him. That's a radical change for anyone. It's what I had to do when I converted to Christianity. A lot of people don't want to undergo that kind of change in their life. Catholics don't base our understanding of the faith on personal interpretation of the Holy Bible. We have Sacred Scripture, but we also have divine Tradition and the Teaching Authority of the Church which traces back in history to Jesus and the Apostles.

 

[Chriliman]

One has to be humble and sincerely searching for God before God will reveal Himself to them. I think most non-believers don't want to believe in God since it would mean they'd have to make radical changes in their life which they don't want to do.

Thankfully, when one honestly seeks God, He provides the change needed by His Spirit and the person is born again. He cares for the humble in heart and brings the prideful down and humbles them.

Matthew 23:12
"For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."

 

[AnonymousRain]

In my view for something to be construed as that which is defined as god it would then be incumbent on that higher power to believe in me. It's giving my life praise, blessings, rewards, would then serve to prove that creator creates the example of its existence in some way that shows proof beyond what I can do for myself.
Whereas today's religions make that which they each identify as that higher power egoism and insecurity. That it must be worshiped , placated, obeyed, beseeched for a boon, while every aspect of our life occupies its time. And that part is what pertains to the egocentric nature of the human believer.
It's a contradiction to claim one is not worthy of that powers love, mercy, blessings, attention, and then follow a tradition that describes that believers life as being worthy of that higher powers complete focus as supervisor and punisher or that which gives reward, based on it observing that individuals life around the clock.

Why would a higher power need to be reassured of its station? Why shouldn't it believe in us when it is superior to us?
I see religion , all religious worship, as like unto expecting an ant to understand us. And then when it thinks it does lives its life to please us by its actions. In this way we'll let it live or we'll step on it to show our displeasure.

 

[Chriliman]

You are hoping to have evidence in the future that will demonstrate that virtually everything we know now is wrong? I can wait.

No, I'm saying there could be evidence presented in the future that could reveal that your or my previously held beliefs are wrong. I fully expect and hope that my beliefs will conform to the truth.

Yet you already believe, without evidence?

I consider soundly reasoned explanations as evidence of truth, do you?

 

[Chriliman]

In my view for something to be construed as that which is defined as god it would then be incumbent on that higher power to believe in me. It's giving my life praise, blessings, rewards, would then serve to prove that creator creates the example of its existence in some way that shows proof beyond what I can do for myself.
Whereas today's religions make that which they each identify as that higher power egoism and insecurity. That it must be worshiped , placated, obeyed, beseeched for a boon, while every aspect of our life occupies its time. And that part is what pertains to the egocentric nature of the human believer.
It's a contradiction to claim one is not worthy of that powers love, mercy, blessings, attention, and then follow a tradition that describes that believers life as being worthy of that higher powers complete focus as supervisor and punisher or that which gives reward, based on it observing that individuals life around the clock.

Why would a higher power need to be reassured of its station? Why shouldn't it believe in us when it is superior to us?
I see religion , all religious worship, as like unto expecting an ant to understand us. And then when it thinks it does lives its life to please us by its actions. In this way we'll let it live or we'll step on it to show our displeasure.

Interesting view. Thanks!

 

[Davian]

No, I'm saying there could be evidence presented in the future that could reveal that your or my previously held beliefs are wrong. I fully expect and hope that my beliefs will conform to the truth.

There's no need to wait.

If we are talking about that character in a book named "God" that [allegedly] walked and talked in a garden that has no evidence of having existed, poofed people and animals into existence, and later, in a manner contrary to the modern understanding of genetics, populated the planet with a tiny group of individuals and animals that survived a global flood in an unbuildable boat, a flood that killed the dinosaurs in a manner that only *appears* to be 65 million years ago, because the Earth is really only somehow 6000 years old, yet remains, by every object measure to date indistinguishable from nothing, we already know that a story like that does not comport with observations of reality. That's old news.

I consider soundly reasoned explanations as evidence of truth, do you?

In the manner in which I have seen you use the phrase "soundly reasoned", I would not use it for evidence for worms in my garden.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It means the death of your former life and putting all of your trust in Jesus and following Him. That's a radical change for anyone. It's what I had to do when I converted to Christianity. A lot of people don't want to undergo that kind of change in their life. Catholics don't base our understanding of the faith on personal interpretation of the Holy Bible. We have Sacred Scripture, but we also have divine Tradition and the Teaching Authority of the Church which traces back in history to Jesus and the Apostles.

Sounds like a lot of work.

I bet I'd have to change a lot in my life if I wanted to be a Muslim too... That still doesn't convince me of either religion being true. It wouldn't change my opinion of what I think are unnecessary rules that seem to only slow down human progress, either.

 

[Chriliman]

There's no need to wait.

If we are talking about that character in a book named "God" that [allegedly] walked and talked in a garden that has no evidence of having existed, poofed people and animals into existence, and later, in a manner contrary to the modern understanding of genetics, populated the planet with a tiny group of individuals and animals that survived a global flood in an unbuildable boat, a flood that killed the dinosaurs in a manner that only *appears* to be 65 million years ago, because the Earth is really only somehow 6000 years old, yet remains, by every object measure to date indistinguishable from nothing, we already know that a story like that does not comport with observations of reality. That's old news.

In the manner in which I have seen you use the phrase "soundly reasoned", I would not use it for evidence for worms in my garden.

Lol, nice! Thanks, makes me feel real good

 

[Ana the Ist]

By this logic I could just as easily say that the lack of evidence that God does not exist, means God does exist. Based on your logic, you should agree, yet you don't, why is that?

What kind of evidence would show that something does not exist?

I'm not sure you understand what evidence is and how it works.

 

[Davian]

Lol, nice! Thanks, makes me feel real good

No problem. Good that you know that you are wrong now, so that you don't continue on like you were doing.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It means the death of your former life and putting all of your trust in Jesus and following Him. That's a radical change for anyone. It's what I had to do when I converted to Christianity. A lot of people don't want to undergo that kind of change in their life. Catholics don't base our understanding of the faith on personal interpretation of the Holy Bible. We have Sacred Scripture, but we also have divine Tradition and the Teaching Authority of the Church which traces back in history to Jesus and the Apostles.

Just out of curiosity...what did you convert from?

And I'm sorry, I should've been more clear when I said "personal interpretation" of scripture. I do realize some denominations rely on a specific person or group's interpretation of scripture and don't necessarily encourage each believer to develop their own understanding of the bible. I just wasn't thinking of this when I made my previous post.