Muslims and God

[Tallguy88]

Do Muslims worship God? Or do they worship a man made God?

Need citations and sources.

The RCC says they are the same God, but I'm of the opposite opinion.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Worship "a" God or "The" God? By their fruits you shall know them...

 

[Kristos]

Allah is a transcendent god without any direct connection to humanity and the world except that he created it. There is no immanence, no freewill of man, no fall, no repentance and no forgiveness - everything is predestined and caused by Allah. Allah does not reveal himself to man - he dictate his will through his prophet, Mohamed. Any resemblance to the God of Christianity is completely superficial - in other words - they are not even close the same, not even similar.

 

[Tallguy88]

Allah is a transcendent god without any direct connection to humanity and the world except that he created it. There is no immanence, no freewill of man, no fall, no repentance and no forgiveness - everything is predestined and caused by Allah. Allah does not reveal himself to man - he dictate his will through his prophet, Mohamed. Any resemblance to the God of Christianity is completely superficial - in other words - they are not even close the same, not even similar.

I agree. How do I respond to those who say it is the same God, just understood differently?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yes and no, OP. The way I would look at this would be through the eyes of St. John Damascene. He lived during the early age of Islam. He was illumined and "got it." His opinion was that Islam was a severe Christian heresy. So, if we look at Islam through that lens, it's helpful. Did Arians, Nestorians, Monophysites, Monothelites, or gnostics worship our God? Not really. They worshiped God with warped understandings of Him and a misguided approach. it's like knowing someone half-way or knowing someone briefly but you believe lies and distortions about them which causes you to see them in a blurred, hazy light. That's how I see heresy. Islam is a heresy of Christ.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I agree. How do I respond to those who say it is the same God, just understood differently?

a Trinitarian, Incarnate God who did not speak to Mohammad is not the same as a Unitarian, non-Incarnate God who did speak to Mohammad. a God who calls Isaac the child of the promise is not the same as a God who calls Ishmael the child of the promise.

 

[buzuxi02]

There is absolutely no Triune God in Islam. The Koran makes clear that God has no Son and its impossible to call him a Father. There is also no knowledge of the Holy Spirit as an effluence of God.

To claim that Muslims only believe in "the Father", as OT Jews did, is rejected by Muslims as any reference to God as "Abba" is heresy in itself.
As far as the Holy Spirit, Muslims interpret the reference in the gospel of John where Jesus says he will send a paraklete, to be a prophecy of the coming of Muhammed. The Koran condemns the Trinity which says the third person is the Virgin Mary, it has no knowledge of a 'Holy Spirit' other than a descriptive title for the anderlecht

Some may claim that we worship the same God just as some who worship Zeus can make the argument that Zeus is the same God as that of the muslims.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Do Muslims worship God? Or do they worship a man made God?

Need citations and sources.

The RCC says they are the same God, but I'm of the opposite opinion.

Besides the timely critique of St. John of Damascus who saw Islam in its infancy and noted it to be a heresy (Heresy of the Ishmaelites)/"in-house" battle, this was an very direct presentation from Patriarch John X when he was interviewed on the Church in Syria. His stance was that Muslims were brothers to Christians, with it being the case that brothers do not have fullness as older ones do and yet they are still family.

In his words, as noted in
Patriarch John X Interviewed on the Church in Syria: Antioche Orthodox
:

If they want to use the issue of the abduction of Bishops as a card to break up the region and fragmentation, and if some think that the issue of Christians is one of the papers that they could use to reach certain goals, and if they thought they nurture through this file method in dramatize Christians and intimidate them, we tell them, despite the difficult circumstance Despite the bitterness of the days they were completely wrong, because that is not afraid nor leads us to change our opinion or to give up any right we are sticking to. We as Christians live alongside Muslims brothers in this land precious nothing separates us from them.

More than fourteen centuries of fraternal coexistence among the various communities in the region have not ridden throughout history, such as the crisis in the region, this exceptional stage not need to be an extraordinary steps....


We live in these precious days in memory of the sacrifice of Ibrahim Abu parents, where express provision of the Eucharist, or the sacrifice of faith in the Lord, and submit to him and that you converted to Islam yourself to God, and then distribute it to the poor and needy people in order to eat them, and send them to heaven, this means that when we say for a Muslim that he devout celebrates Eid al-Adha, we mean the following; it offers an offering to God an expression of faith in Him and submit to him and this faith Ahdk to human brother, he is giving in the end to his fellow man poor in need, to be able to flesh eating if he was unable to do so If there is no religion, no humanitarian principle, accept things that occur, particularly, unfortunately, under the religion slogan, this is rejected by Muslims and Christians, and we have become as a result of blind extremism use the word moderate, after we imposed events a new dictionary, and every event that we are both of us on the cooperation and the meeting continues with each other, with the Grand Mufti Ahmad Badr al-Din Hassoun with which he has brothers Fbath our house and our house his home, we are on the case and one with our fellow scientists virtue and tolerance owners, and even the Arab world such as the Sheikh of Al-Azhar and all of the law of God, and anyone else who works his conscience and the law of God in inside, everyone reject extremism as believers in the Lord in Syria and the region, but it has become clear that the policy is one of the lies behind such behavior, not religion, and we hope that people open their hearts to God, and guided by, and knows that when a person holding a sword and say "Allahu Akbar" and to kill his brother, as slaughtered chicken, where is and where it is going.

Several conferences and meetings held in Syria, Lebanon and others have participated in some of them, at the local, regional and global level, and always went out by everyone, without exception, Muslims and Christians to renounce extremism and lack of acceptance, it is very important to hear the voice of truth, and spoken the truth and this attitude announce States international organizations, the World Council of Churches in Geneva was held more than a conference, and this conference did not have a political edge, but were meetings humanitarian church adopts human rights..
​

Also, as said in Patriarch John X and the God Who is With Us | Antiochian ...

The Patriarch said that we are not looking for protection. Protection for us, while peaceful Muslim brothers and sisters who lived with us for centuries remain unprotected, is not enough. We need peace. We need outside powers to stop interfering in Syria and stop imposing their own agenda. Syria needs peace.​

​

 

[Prinzessin]

Allah is a transcendent god without any direct connection to humanity and the world except that he created it. There is no immanence, no freewill of man, no fall, no repentance and no forgiveness - everything is predestined and caused by Allah. Allah does not reveal himself to man - he dictate his will through his prophet, Mohamed. Any resemblance to the God of Christianity is completely superficial - in other words - they are not even close the same, not even similar.

Excuse me, but i feel like I have to ask: 'Do you know any muslims?' or 'Have you studied Islam?' If not, than how can you make these statements?
(Anyways, studying Islam is a better reference, because as we know, unfortunately some muslims misinterpret the Qu'ran and the Sunnah)

 

[ArmyMatt]

Excuse me, but i feel like I have to ask: 'Do you know any muslims?' or 'Have you studied Islam?' If not, than how can you make these statements?
(Anyways, studying Islam is a better reference, because as we know, unfortunately some muslims misinterpret the Qu'ran and the Sunnah)

I can say I know a few, and most of what he said is spot on from my dialogues with them.

 

[Prinzessin]

Yes. Unfortunately people (muslim or not) are not relying on the right sources and the right scholars nowadays (however there are amazing scholars existing). I wonder how would other non-muslims react if they heard these scholars, and what they are preaching.
And a response to this sentence: 'Allah does not reveal himself to man - he dictate his will through his prophet, Mohamed.'
In the Bible, God also revealed Himself only to prophets and dictated his will through them! - Moses, Jesus, etc.

 

[Armoured]

Do Muslims worship God? Or do they worship a man made God?

Need citations and sources.

The RCC says they are the same God, but I'm of the opposite opinion.

Soooo, on what basis do you disagree with Mother Church?

 

[Tallguy88]

Soooo, on what basis do you disagree with Mother Church?

I freely admit my beliefs on the issue are not in line with what is in the Catechism.

 

[Armoured]

I freely admit my beliefs on the issue are not in line with what is in the Catechism.

And that's good, because honesty is important. But I'm interested to hear how you come to the conclusion that you are right and the Church is wrong?

 

[Cappadocious]

Do Muslims worship God? Or do they worship a man made God?

Need citations and sources.

The RCC says they are the same God, but I'm of the opposite opinion.

They worship God but not in Spirit and Truth.

 

[ArmyMatt]

In the Bible, God also revealed Himself only to prophets and dictated his will through them! - Moses, Jesus, etc.

except that Jesus was not a mere Prophet, He is God. God dictated His will as He is.

 

[Tallguy88]

Yes. Unfortunately people (muslim or not) are not relying on the right sources and the right scholars nowadays (however there are amazing scholars existing). I wonder how would other non-muslims react if they heard these scholars, and what they are preaching.
And a response to this sentence: 'Allah does not reveal himself to man - he dictate his will through his prophet, Mohamed.'
In the Bible, God also revealed Himself only to prophets and dictated his will through them! - Moses, Jesus, etc.

Nit pick: Jesus isn't a prophet, he is God in the flesh.

 

[Tallguy88]

And that's good, because honesty is important. But I'm interested to hear how you come to the conclusion that you are right and the Church is wrong?

Prima facie, they are completely different. God is a Trinity. Muslims believe God is Unity, and call the Trinity polythiestic.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Yes. Unfortunately people (muslim or not) are not relying on the right sources and the right scholars nowadays (however there are amazing scholars existing). I wonder how would other non-muslims react if they heard these scholars, and what they are preaching.
And a response to this sentence: 'Allah does not reveal himself to man - he dictate his will through his prophet, Mohamed.'
In the Bible, God also revealed Himself only to prophets and dictated his will through them! - Moses, Jesus, etc.

Hi Prinzessin, and welcome to Christian Forums.

Seeing that you are new here, I just want to remind you of our rules. This forum is for members of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Guests, such as yourself, are welcome to post here in fellowship and to ask questions, but not to debate or teach.

Respectfully,

Mark
CF Admin

 

[buzuxi02]

The Koran has absolutely no knowledge of the doctrine of the Trinity or even the New Testament. The Koran believes Christians hold God the Father as a third subordinate God and hold to Jesus and Mary as two other deities.
Even St John of Damascus got it wrong as he believed the reference to "a holy spirit from him" ( referenced in the koran) refered to the Holy Spirit, in reality it's just a description of the angel Gabriel whom God sends to reveal his message to the prophets.

It's still baffling as to how the Koran came to believe Christians thought of Mary as a god. They try to pin it on an obscure statement by St Epiphanius on some heretical custom where some women baked a bread in honor of the Virgin Mary. First off this group was not a sect, no evidence that they worshipped Mary, we're a small group of christian wonen, and they didn't exist in Saudi arabia.