The Cambrian problem

[pat34lee]

We have seen the neutrinos produced by nuclear fusion in the Sun's core.
Can you stop avoiding the question?
Why hasn't the Sun expanded into a gravitationally unbound cloud of thin gas?

How about the reverse?

How could a gravitationally unbound cloud of thin gas, mostly
Hydrogen, become dense enough to collapse into a sun?

 

[pat34lee]

Let's see your math.

 

[pat34lee]

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/Encyclopedia/02-star5.htm

 

[klutedavid]

I take it that you are not going to discuss the topic, nor other people's posts?

Hello Loudmouth.

I am sorry for being slow to respond, I am very busy.

I will try and respond when I get the time, thanks Loudmouth.

 

[klutedavid]

No offense intended, but your powers of observation are somewhat problematic.

Why must anyone provide "proof"? No one has ever shown that there is any causation other than the natural.

There is no reason to believe in any "spiritual realm". Propositions asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you can demonstrate the "spiritual realm", then James Randi has a million dollars for you.

Hello Gracchus.

You made the following claim.

Why must anyone provide "proof"? No one has ever shown that there is any
causation other than the natural.

It appears that you are confused, you seem to misunderstand that 'naturalism'
is a philosophy and that is all it is. You cannot prove or even offer any evidence,
to support a claim of a natural causation, to do so would require absolute knowledge.

Is there anyone here, who can claim to have absolute knowledge?

Is there anyone?

 

[Gracchus]

Hello Gracchus.

You made the following claim.

It appears that you are confused, you seem to misunderstand that 'naturalism'
is a philosophy and that is all it is. You cannot prove or even offer any evidence,
to support a claim of a natural causation, to do so would require absolute knowledge.

naturalism noun
: a style of art or literature that shows people and things as they actually are

Full Definition of NATURALISM

1: action, inclination, or thought based only on natural desires and instincts
2: a theory denying that an event or object has a supernatural significance; specifically : the doctrine that scientific laws are adequate to account for all phenomena
3: realism in art or literature; specifically : a theory or practice in literature emphasizing scientific observation of life without idealization and often including elements of determinism

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naturalism

Are we, or are we not, discussing definition #2?

We have observed cause and effect. All that we can demonstrate is the natural. The supernatural has never been satisfactorily demonstrated. There is no reason, other than wishful thinking, to suppose the supernatural or non-material exists.

Is there anyone here, who can claim to have absolute knowledge? Is there anyone?

ME! ME!

I am not so sure about you, but I am absolutely sure that I exist.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Okay, that math is only part of it. What happens to a gas when it is compressed?

 

[Subduction Zone]

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/Encyclopedia/02-star5.htm

Sorry, all you have there are a series of quote mines and quote mines are very poor evidence. The Bible says "there is no God" at least 12 times if you quote mine it. By the logic of the people that you just sited that is evidence that God does not exist. Are you sure that you want to go that route?

It is always wiser and more honest to quote people when you can link to the original source. Then you can show that your quote was in context. Also those are rather old quotes. With advanced telescopes astronomers have observed all stages of star formation, it is not that big of a mystery any more.

 

[Astrophile]

Do those that have faith in evolutionism realize that when the cambrian fossils are examined it is seen that the major phyla and classes of animals suddenly appear fully developed in the cambrian strata with no ancestral linage leading up to the many different phyla and classes.

Who discovered and published this fact? Hint: it wasn't creationists.

 

[Astrophile]

Fossils layers typically represent the biome and fauna in which they lived. I wouldn't expect to find a rabbit there.

Why are there no Cambrian whales, seals, walruses, or sirenians? Why are there no Cambrian turtles or ichthyosaurs?

 

[Astrophile]

How can you claim that life appeared fully formed in the Cambrian when it doesn't contain a single mammal?

It doesn't contain any birds, reptiles or amphibians either.

 

[Astrophile]

Hello Shemjaza.

Star formation.

For more than a decade, astronomers have known that stars formed
more rapidly in the past compared to today. At present, only a few stars
form each year in a typical large spiral galaxy like the Milky Way, but
five to ten billion years ago, the same kind of galaxy formed stars ten times
more quickly.
(Explaining Faster Star Formation in the Past, March 10, 2010, by Dr. Jeff Zweerink)

First, this has nothing to do with the Cambrian explosion. Second, five to ten billion years ago there was more interstellar matter available to form stars; it hadn't been used up in producing the stars that we see. Third, may I take it that you accept that galaxies and stars have formed over billions of years?

 

[Loudmouth]

How about the reverse?

How could a gravitationally unbound cloud of thin gas, mostly
Hydrogen, become dense enough to collapse into a sun?

Since we can see the process happening out in space, the answer is yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_formation

 

[Loudmouth]

Where is the mathematical formula showing that the heat caused by compression will counteract the force of gravity to the point that stars won't form?

 

[klutedavid]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naturalism

Are we, or are we not, discussing definition #2?

We have observed cause and effect. All that we can demonstrate is the natural. The supernatural has never been satisfactorily demonstrated. There is no reason, other than wishful thinking, to suppose the supernatural or non-material exists.


ME! ME!

I am not so sure about you, but I am absolutely sure that I exist.

Hello Gracchus.

You asked about the following.

2: a theory denying that an event or object has a supernatural significance; specifically :
the doctrine that scientific laws are adequate to account for all phenomena

I regard naturalism as a philosophy, never a theory by any stretch.

 

[sfs]

I think you were supposed to post math that supported your claim, not cut and paste random equations.

 

[Loudmouth]

Hello Gracchus.

You asked about the following.

I regard naturalism as a philosophy, never a theory by any stretch.

Do you think supernatural claims that lack supporting evidence are better explanations than natural processes backed by evidence? If someone said that Leprechauns create rainbows, not light refraction, would you agree that Leprechauns are the better explanation?

 

[Gracchus]

I regard naturalism as a philosophy, never a theory by any stretch.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less."

It seems Humpty was cracked even before he fell off the wall.

 

[klutedavid]

Do you think supernatural claims that lack supporting evidence are better explanations than natural processes backed by evidence? If someone said that Leprechauns create rainbows, not light refraction, would you agree that Leprechauns are the better explanation?

Hello Loudmouth.

This word 'evidence' is another difficult word to define.

The definition of evidence will reduce to what your philosophical disposition dictates.

 

[Loudmouth]

Hello Loudmouth.

This word 'evidence' is another difficult word to define.

The definition of evidence will reduce to what your philosophical disposition dictates.

Evidence is a set of verifiable facts that are independent of the claimant. Evidence is also able to differentiate between two opposing claims.