Sabbath guidance

[BobRyan]

Hi Bob, Sorry I confused you with Rev 12. I didn't look to confirm chapters 12 or 14. both are referring to commandments. Both do not have a 10 in the verse,

Neither of them have "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 or "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in them either - but we know they include all of those moral laws.

Just as is irrefutably the case in Eph 6:2.


In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??


Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

Both of those statements - before the cross. And the primary intended audience listening those statements AS they were spoken - knew full well that God's TEN Commandments were included in the scope of the term "Commandments".

Paul - as a messianic Jew - would also have known that same thing - as HE points out in Romans 7.

And here -

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

 

[BobRyan]

So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

 

[BobRyan]

John tells us that LOVE for God and for fellow Christians - is shown by "KEEPING God's Commandments" this is HOW we know that we LOVE God and love others.

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

The point remains.

1 John 3 is not helping your case against the Commandments of God - the LAW of God.

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

1 John 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

John it in those verses in chapter 3 nails in down as to how we are to relate to Jesus will. He completely is in harmony with Paul's writings concerning the law.

I agree with that fully.

hence in 1 John 5 - we find no circular statements at all.

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

==========================

John did not just say "For this is the love of God that we love God" - that would be circular.
John did not say "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and Love God" - that would be nonsensical.

Rather - John is talking about really keeping the "Commandments of God" -

As Paul insists in Eph 6:2 are the TEN Commandments.

irrefutable.

Paul wrote in 2Cor 3 that the 10 Commandments were temporary.

No -- he did not. you merely "quote you" for that.

I contend that In chapter 2 of James he is referring to the Royal Law as being our love for our fellow man and not the 10 commandments

I contend that when we actually read James 2 we find MORE than "Love God with all your heart" - rather we find reference to the very commandments that are in the TEN Commandments - just as in Eph 6:2 - that are not deleted simply because they do not say 'Love God' or "Love your neighbor"

James 2
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James did not say our obligation to God's law "may be downsized according to man's desire to diminish the LAW of God" -- rather James said that our obligation is based on "HE WHO SAID" -- and James points out that the Commandment "Do not commit adultery" -- is from the same "HE WHO SAID" as the commanmdent "Do not kill".

That is the doom of all the downsize/delete/side-step gyrations from man-made-traditions against the Law of God.


As Christ points out in Matt 5 and John 14:15 - to live in rebellion against the Word of God - is not love for God.

All of the LAW AND the Prophets are founded upon - BASED on the two great laws.

Matt 22
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

"ALL the LAW and the Prophets" -- ALL of scripture known to the people of God as Christ spoke those words! ALL of it based on the unshakable foundation of the TWO commandments establishing firmly - all the rest.

 

[Bob S]

Fact No where in the New Testament does it tell Christians to keep the Sabbath. You may quote all the verses about law or commandments and there is nothing about the commandment with the supposed "halo" around it. lets get real. This "special" command was never explained by God or any of the New Testament writers to the new Gentiles converts in all of NT scripture. Your prophet tells the flock they are going to Hell if they fail to keep it yet there is no command accept for the Israelites in all of scripture Again, you may quote all the references concerning law and/or commandments, interpret them any way you wish and you still cannot prove that We Christians have ever been put under the ritual laws of Israel. In fact, 2Cor 3: 7-11 tells us the 10 commandments were only temporary laws so how could any of the text you have given refer to the Sabbath? Why did Paul call the law temporary in Gal 3? Why did Paul in Col 2 call the Sabbath a shadow? 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Why does your church stand in judgment of what others eat and when we go to worship?

In Christ, Bob S

 

[BobRyan]

Fact No where in the New Testament does it tell Christians to keep the Sabbath. You may quote all the verses about law or commandments and there is nothing about the commandment with the supposed "halo" around it.

By contrast - the actual Bible fact is that there is no quote in the New Testament of the command to not take God's name in vain - Ex 20:6 -- yet all Christians DO have the bible study skills to know that this means absolutely nothing in terms of being an excuse for taking God's name in vain.

And while there is NO command in the NT calling week-day-1 the "Lord's Day" or commanding observance of week-day1. Yet there IS the NT reminder that "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2Tim 3:16

And of course "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind and not mankind made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27
Turns out - Mark 2:27 is in the NT.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before me to worship" Is 66:23
Turns out... Is 66 is part of that "scripture" that Paul affirms in 2 Tim 3:16 "to be used for doctrine".

"There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4
Turns out - the Sabbath "remains" ...

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 --
"do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

And as we are reminded - the same LAW - moral LAW of God that defines sin -- known to Jeremiah in Jer 31:31-33 REMAINS for NT saints in Heb 8:6-10 "written on the heart and mind" for the SAINTS.


This point about the REMAINING Law of the Sabbath - in the NT -- is sooo incredibly obvious that EVEN majority of PRO-SUNDAY scholarship admits to it - as the signature line shows.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

 

[BobRyan]

Again, you may quote all the references concerning law and/or commandments, interpret them any way you wish

We call that "sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine and tradition - your interest in dismissing it is ... "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.

and you still cannot prove that We Christians have ever been put under the ritual laws of Israel. In fact, 2Cor 3: 7-11 tells us the 10 commandments were only temporary laws

No it does not.

2 Cor 3 tells us that the LAW written only externally is a minister of death - because as Rom 3 points out - all the world IS STILL held accountable to that Law that defines sin and declares all the world to be sinners.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the LAW is the knowledge of sin.

so how could any of the text you have given refer to the Sabbath? Why did Paul call the law temporary in Gal 3?

Paul never declares the LAW to be temporary - rather the role of the law as our 'instructor' -- before we came to faith - condemning the lost and instructing the lost to accept Christ - ends once that lost person accepts Christ.

AND the LAW of God is then - "written on the mind and heart" Heb 8:6-10

Another point not missed at all by the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith"

Why did Paul in Col 2 call the Sabbath a shadow? 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

The "annual Sabbaths" of Lev 23 point forward to the sacrifice of Christ and are "Shadows" of that future event.

But the Sabbath of Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 is a "memorial" pointing back to creation week commanding us to "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth and the springs of water"

Here "again" even the majority of PRO-SUNDAY scholarship gets this obvious Bible detail -- it is not just those Christians that choose to honor the Bible Sabbath on God's seventh day.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

 

[Cribstyl]

Fact No where in the New Testament does it tell Christians to keep the Sabbath. You may quote all the verses about law or commandments and there is nothing about the commandment with the supposed "halo" around it. lets get real. This "special" command was never explained by God or any of the New Testament writers to the new Gentiles converts in all of NT scripture. Your prophet tells the flock they are going to Hell if they fail to keep it yet there is no command accept for the Israelites in all of scripture Again, you may quote all the references concerning law and/or commandments, interpret them any way you wish and you still cannot prove that We Christians have ever been put under the ritual laws of Israel. In fact, 2Cor 3: 7-11 tells us the 10 commandments were only temporary laws so how could any of the text you have given refer to the Sabbath? Why did Paul call the law temporary in Gal 3? Why did Paul in Col 2 call the Sabbath a shadow? 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Why does your church stand in judgment of what others eat and when we go to worship?

In Christ, Bob S

AMEN!!!!! When we ask him to prove any issue he presented, he raises several more issues to avoid proving anything as fact.

 

[Bob S]

We call that "sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine and tradition - your interest in dismissing it is ... "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.



No it does not.

2 Cor 3 tells us that the LAW written only externally is a minister of death - because as Rom 3 points out - all the world IS STILL held accountable to that Law that defines sin and declares all the world to be sinners.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the LAW is the knowledge of sin.

We call that "sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine and tradition - your interest in dismissing it is ... "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.



No it does not.

2 Cor 3 tells us that the LAW written only externally is a minister of death - because as Rom 3 points out - all the world IS STILL held accountable to that Law that defines sin and declares all the world to be sinners.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the LAW is the knowledge of sin.




Paul never declares the LAW to be temporary - rather the role of the law as our 'instructor' -- before we came to faith - condemning the lost and instructing the lost to accept Christ - ends once that lost person accepts Christ.

AND the LAW of God is then - "written on the mind and heart" Heb 8:6-10

Another point not missed at all by the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith"



The "annual Sabbaths" of Lev 23 point forward to the sacrifice of Christ and are "Shadows" of that future event.

But the Sabbath of Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 is a "memorial" pointing back to creation week commanding us to "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth and the springs of water"

Here "again" even the majority of PRO-SUNDAY scholarship gets this obvious Bible detail -- it is not just those Christians that choose to honor the Bible Sabbath on God's seventh day.

in Christ,

Bob

Paul never declares the LAW to be temporary - rather the role of the law as our 'instructor' -- before we came to faith - condemning the lost and instructing the lost to accept Christ - ends once that lost person accepts Christ.

AND the LAW of God is then - "written on the mind and heart" Heb 8:6-10

Another point not missed at all by the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith"



The "annual Sabbaths" of Lev 23 point forward to the sacrifice of Christ and are "Shadows" of that future event.

But the Sabbath of Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 is a "memorial" pointing back to creation week commanding us to "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth and the springs of water"

Here "again" even the majority of PRO-SUNDAY scholarship gets this obvious Bible detail -- it is not just those Christians that choose to honor the Bible Sabbath on God's seventh day.

in Christ,

Bob

We call that "sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine and tradition - your interest in dismissing it is ... "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.

Thats funny coming from an Adventist. Actually it is Sola Scriptura plus all the writings of your prophet.

No it does not.

2 Cor 3 tells us that the LAW written only externally is a minister of death - because as Rom 3 points out - all the world IS STILL held accountable to that Law that defines sin and declares all the world to be sinners.

I beg your pardon. Those verses say nothing about being being external and they are referring especially to 10 commandments not the law. Maybe that is what you would like for those verses to say, but the real truth Paul is again telling us the 10 were temporary and now our guide is the Holy Spirit. 2Cor3:
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
I can't believe someone who professes to be a Christian would try to deceive all the people who read these posts. I know your answer is a canned one and you like a good SDA merely copied what you have been told the verses mean, but if you have any common sense you can see what you have been told is a blatant untruth.

Why does verse 7 tell us that the 10 were the ministry that brought death? Because they cannot save us and the Israelites pledged to observe them and failed. So, actually what was to be a covenant turned out to be a death decree.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the LAW is the knowledge of sin.

Paul never declares the LAW to be temporary - rather the role of the law as our 'instructor' -- before we came to faith - condemning the lost and instructing the lost to accept Christ - ends once that lost person accepts Christ.

Are you blind my friend? Gal 3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. Gal 3:23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
For someone from a church that claims to know scripture better than what your church deems as Babylon you certainly haven't studied everything or anything concerning the simple Gospel. You have been fed a bunch of proof texts taken out of context and then claim to have it all, too bad.

AND the LAW of God is then - "written on the mind and heart" Heb 8:6-10

Yes, I know that you believe it is the same covenant given to Israel, but I submit to you that it is not like the covenant given to Israel. As you should now know the covenant given to Israel failed. Yes, it was the people not the covenant, but the covenant was not completed. Why do you think Jesus had to come to save the Israelites from destruction? Why would you believe it to be the same covenant only written on the heart? If it failed when it could be seen plainly why would you believe it would succeed on the heart? A new covenant not like the old one made with Israel. Here read it:
6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.


7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

Is Jesus God? What were Jesus' laws found in the New Testament? Love, love for God and love for our fellow man as Jesus loves us. John the ambassador for Jesus in 1JN 3 writes what the Christian commandments are and I have tried to instill them in you, but you gloss over them because of your preconceived ideas that come from your prophet and are not true.

Another point not missed at all by the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith"



The "annual Sabbaths" of Lev 23 point forward to the sacrifice of Christ and are "Shadows" of that future event.

But the Sabbath of Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 is a "memorial" pointing back to creation week commanding us to "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth and the springs of water"

Here "again" even the majority of PRO-SUNDAY scholarship gets this obvious Bible detail -- it is not just those Christians that choose to honor the Bible Sabbath on God's seventh day.

Again, why would you quote Babylon? Is there any truth in Babylon? Your prophet believed there is not.

I really do not get excited at the expressions men make and you should not either especially because of your churches disdain for the remainder of Christianity.

The Sabbath WAS the memorial........

in Christ, Bob S

 

[BobRyan]

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

Perhaps another way to say that is -


Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

"FIRST Commandment" -- in "what unit" of LAW??

 

[BobRyan]

AMEN!!!!! When we ask him to prove any issue he presented, he raises several more issues to avoid proving anything as fact.

A false accusation relying on no fact at all as its "source".

Why not quote something?

 

[BobRyan]

I beg your pardon. Those verses say nothing about being being external

If you have two tablets of stone internally - then you could possibly make your point.

In the mean time the text does talk about that external state of the moral law of God - written on stone.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,

The point remains.

When the moral law of God - that defines sin - is written only externally - only on stone -- it is the 'ministry of death'.

But when it is "written on the mind and heart" Heb 8:6-10 -- well then it is the work of the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 according to Heb 8.

So again... the point remains.

 

[GillDouglas]

@BobRyan I first need to apologize for my lack of participation in my own thread. Secondly I need your help summarizing your thoughts surrounding the Sabbath. In short, I believe you're saying that to love God properly we must follow His law, His commandments. This includes accurately following the teachings in regards to the Sabbath. I'm not going to say that you're right or wrong, but the point of my OP is that I am unable to do what you're suggesting.

 

[BobRyan]

@BobRyan I first need to apologize for my lack of participation in my own thread. Secondly I need your help summarizing your thoughts surrounding the Sabbath. In short, I believe you're saying that to love God properly we must follow His law, His commandments. This includes accurately following the teachings in regards to the Sabbath. I'm not going to say that you're right or wrong, but the point of my OP is that I am unable to do what you're suggesting.

Can you "accurately" love God with all your heart (Deut 6:5) and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18??

"If you Love ME KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15.
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6

Consider Romans 8 -
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him

And in the same way - Romans 6
5 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

The claim to be a slave of sin is there in the text. But we need not make that claim

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Easy question for you - "What was the deception" that Paul warns the church against in 1Cor 6??

In 1 Cor 6 - Paul is hammering the NT church members at Corinth for some of their poor behavior and he adds force to his reprimand by telling them "not to be deceived" about where that leads.

What exactly were they tempted to be "deceived about"??

 

[Bob S]

@BobRyan I first need to apologize for my lack of participation in my own thread. Secondly I need your help summarizing your thoughts surrounding the Sabbath. In short, I believe you're saying that to love God properly we must follow His law, His commandments. This includes accurately following the teachings in regards to the Sabbath. I'm not going to say that you're right or wrong, but the point of my OP is that I am unable to do what you're suggesting.

Hi Gill, I hope you don't mind my participation in your thread. As you probably have read, I no longer believe the Sabbath is binding on Christians. I don't think I have commented on the Sunday issue, so I will take leave to try to explain Sunday's actual role in most Christians' lives. SDAs are correct in telling us that Sunday observance was never a scriptural command. You probably understand that. The only admonition concerning assembly, (what I believe is a command) is found in Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

I would assume that in assembly the script would read prayer, admonition, worship, collection of funds to operate the church and etc. What I do not find in the New Testament are requirements for how to "keep" a day. There is no admonition to prepare for the day by cooking food the prior day. The old way of observing the Sabbath was not to seek your own pleasure, do your own thing, but that was the old way. Christians are not under the old way Heb 8.

If you have been reading my posts you will have discovered that the 10 commandments are not binding. They were temporary laws. Christians are under the greatest law, the law of love. Christians are not breaking any law by working when we have to. I will be the first one to see the value in resting and recreation. recreation with our families whenever possible. God has given us brains to consider how to live. Prayer, meditation, study, collective worship, etc are a big part of living a life in Christ.

Trying to mix Christian duty with the old Sabbath law is futile. Even if I were to be proven wrong in my analysis, Israelites failed miserably, what makes us think we can do better? For years I tried to observe the SDA brand of observance. Every week after the Sabbath I would critique my Sabbath experience as to the standard and I failed every time. I was burdened with guilt. I could never be part of the group that would become perfect so that I could pass the "investigative judgment" they claim Christians have to pass in order to be saved. Of course that is another false doctrine SDAs hold, but at the time I fully believed.

 

[GillDouglas]

@Bob S I appreciate your participation in this thread. We are definitely on the same page here. Thanks!

 

[BobRyan]

If you have been reading my posts you will have discovered that the 10 commandments are not binding. They were temporary laws.

but if you have been reading the Bible then you found this --


"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before ME to worship" Is 66:23
"The SABBATH was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27.
'There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of GOD" Heb 4
"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"for in 6 days the Lord MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and all that is in them" Ex 20:11
"worship HIM who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" Rev 14:7
"HE who said 'do not commit adultery' ALSO SAID 'do not murder' " James 2
"do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid!! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31
"I will make a NEW Covenant... this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel and the house of Judah -- I will write My LAW on their mind and on their heart" Heb 8:6-10

Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Eph 6:2 makes it real easy --

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

In what UNIT of LAW - is the 5th commandment - "the FIRST commandment with a promise" - because it is that unit that Paul is upholding in Eph 6:2.

Real easy answer.

========================

Funny thing about that "Protestant Reformation" and "sola scriptura" -- the whole point was to pay attention to the Bible itself and not the traditions of man or doctrines of men that violate the teaching of God's Word.

All this "you can have the Bible - but I say this..." sort of solution -- is just not a good idea.

 

[BobRyan]

For those not at all happy with the Protestant Reformation principle of paying attention to Bible details- and measuring all doctrine and tradition against the Bible standard -- we have this.

2Tim 4
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.


Christ uses the "sola scriptura" method to hammer the traditions and doctrines of his day that were in error -- popular but still "error"

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said" -

 

[BobRyan]

Trying to mix Christian duty with the old Sabbath law is futile. Even if I were to be proven wrong in my analysis, Israelites failed miserably, what makes us think we can do better? .

In this prime example of "you quoting you" I think you give some of your best arguments for your POV.

But I am one who prefers the actual Bible.

 

[Bob S]

In this prime example of "you quoting you" I think you give some of your best arguments for your POV.

But I am one who prefers the actual Bible.

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN DO ANY BETTER THAN THE ISRAELITES AT "KEEPING" SABBATH AND THE REST OF THE LAW?