Pope Francis attacks Christian Fundamentalist Catholics in response to Terrorism

[Root of Jesse]

from: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Vatican-religion-pope-France/2015/11/30/id/703942/


What is Francis saying about his fellow Catholics who are "fundamentalist"??

1. They are violent extremists Catholics just as we find among some Muslims?
2. Their belief in "Absolute truth" makes them like Muslim extremists even if they are not violent?

Who are these violent Catholic fundamentalists? Or is this even what he is talking about?

What is meant by a Christian Fundamentalist?

One who "believes the Bible"??

One who believes in a literal real - historic - virgin birth?
One who believes in a literal real - historic - resurrection of Christ?
One who believes in a literal real - historic - 7 day creation week?

or one who "is violent" and attributes their violence to their Christian faith no matter whether they believe in praying to Mary or not? or whether they believe in a bodily resurrection of Christ or not?

Who's asking these questions? You, Bob, or someone else? Secondly, I'd appreciate a full transcript of the interview. Most of the time Popes' 'controversial statements' aren't, because they just snip 15 seconds out of an hour interview.

We all know what Christian Fundamentalists are. Some of them kill others in the name of Jesus. My guess is that that's who the Pope is talking about. Also, Bob, are you aware that there are schismatic groups within the Catholic Church?

 

[Root of Jesse]

That sounds very much like he's talking about people who think the Bible is inerrant and take it seriously.

As if Catholics don't?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

i think he's talking about control freaks and power-made tyrants that use religion as a vehicle to enforce their own take on the faith they claim to abide by. if that is the case, then i agree with him.

i don't think all fundamentalists are that way, they just want their religion as pure as they wish it to be.

 

[concretecamper]

Do you think that this is what is being equated with the terrorist actions in Paris??



So then having a moral conviction about abortion is equated with terrorist attacks in Paris in your POV?

No and no

 

[BobRyan]

If I had to guess, I would say that what the Holy Father means is that we are to remove the plank from our eye before we remove the sliver from our neighbor's eye.

Do you think that this is what is being equated with the terrorist actions in Paris??

For example, a fundamentalist Christian condemns to hell those who believe in abortion. However, that same fundamentalist Christian most likely has his/her own serious sin that he/she is dealing with

So then having a moral conviction about abortion is equated with terrorist attacks in Paris in your POV?

No and no

Still working out the problem then - ?

 

[BobRyan]

i think he's talking about control freaks and power-made tyrants that use religion as a vehicle to enforce their own take on the faith they claim to abide by. if that is the case, then i agree with him.

i don't think all fundamentalists are that way, they just want their religion as pure as they wish it to be.

And that is the same thing as terrorist in Paris - because those "control freaks" are all violent like those in Paris if they are fundamentalist Christians - in your view? Or in Francis' POV?

 

[BobRyan]

Achilles6129 said: ↑
That sounds very much like he's talking about people who think the Bible is inerrant and take it seriously.
As if Catholics don't?

As if Catholics don't?

He said there are many Catholic fundamentalists in this category that he calls "a disease" -- so the whatever definition you choose for his words - he clearly was not excluding the Catholic Church from having that group.

 

[BobRyan]

Who's asking these questions? You, Bob, or someone else? Secondly, I'd appreciate a full transcript of the interview. Most of the time Popes' 'controversial statements' aren't, because they just snip 15 seconds out of an hour interview.

I gave the Newsmax link.

Or did you prefer this one?

National Catholic Reporter
Pope Francis continues his critique of religious fundamentalism
Pat Perriello | Dec. 3, 2015

We all know what Christian Fundamentalists are. Some of them kill others in the name of Jesus. My guess is that that's who the Pope is talking about. Also, Bob, are you aware that there are schismatic groups within the Catholic Church?

Well that would be the first option in the list of options given as an answer for "What does he mean by Christian fundamentalist"

So far nobody has voted that they think that is what he meant.

interesting.

 

[concretecamper]

Do you think that this is what is being equated with the terrorist actions in Paris??



So then having a moral conviction about abortion is equated with terrorist attacks in Paris in your POV?



Still working out the problem then - ?

What problem?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

And that is the same thing as terrorist in Paris - because those "control freaks" are all violent like those in Paris if they are fundamentalist Christians - in your view? Or in Francis' POV?

violence comes from the need to be noticed in a world where your opponent holds the high ground as far as weaponry is concerned.

i believe these terrorists are out on a religious purge and the beheading and massacres are all for the consumption of the western nations, because they know we are so domesticated we would be repulsed by them and we have been.

we call them savages because they do with blades at point blank range what we do with a press of a button and from far enough that we don't see the results of the bomb crater.

we call them ungodly when they are the ones with the courage of their own convictions. they are the one's who are not afraid of dying for what they call god, yet we are the one's who claim that god protects us all and still we fear to bring one person from Syria into our midst.

if we know where we are going then why are we so afraid to push the envelope enough to be sent there by these same ungodly people.

i wouldn't call them control freaks because they are out to control the land that we confiscated by placing our own picks in as authority figures so that we could extract what we wanted from them under the facade of a legitimate government.

people talk about this religious fundamentalism as if it's something new, but in fact it is the oldest form of any religion. it is the purest because it was that way before the onslaught of society pulled and prodded it to conform to the needs and desires of those who find it easier and more profitable to reform it to their desires.

it is also the home plate, the safe zone and the rallying cry when the lives and livelihoods of those people are placed in jeopardy. it doesn't matter wither the threat is real or not, just that, just as long as a person can point to something the listeners can focus on as some power beyond the listeners power to confront.

this has happened, at least once in every religion in the world and will continue to do so until we come to the conclusion that all religions are for the benefit of humanity and not just those who adhere to it, since it controls those who believe in religion, not those who don't.

 

[Root of Jesse]

He said there are many Catholic fundamentalists in this category that he calls "a disease" -- so the whatever definition you choose for his words - he clearly was not excluding the Catholic Church from having that group.

Achilles implied that Catholics don't think the Bible is inerrant, or take it seriously, which is just not true.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I gave the Newsmax link.

Or did you prefer this one?





Well that would be the first option in the list of options given as an answer for "What does he mean by Christian fundamentalist"

So far nobody has voted that they think that is what he meant.

interesting.

Of course you ignored half of my question...
My whole point is that there is no news organization in the world that completely reports on the Catholic Church correctly, I don't care what side of the aisle they're on. Newsmax doesn't give a transcript of the Q&A session, so I will discount them until I get to read the entire transcript, as should you. Several years ago, Pope Benedict gave a similar Q&A, which became book-length, in which on one page, he said that, if a male prostitute with HIV gave a client a condom with the intent of preventing the client from getting HIV, that the prostitute was doing a good work. The News Media said "Catholic Church approves of Condoms." That's not what he said, though. Capice?

 

[fhansen]

Out of curiosity - have you read the supposedly infallible statement in Lateran IV calling for the extermination of heretics?

According to the Fordham Jesuit Univ - rendering of the text.

http://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/lateran4.asp

Yes, I've read the 4th Lateran docs. Two points are relevant. The first is that the church and society were very serious at the time in the belief that public heresy posed a great danger to the stability of society. And they were probably right; the church and the Christian faith it proclaimed had permeated society with the knowledge of order and reason and hope in an otherwise relatively dark and chaotic age. The second point is that the term "exterminate" was meant to emphasize the need to be rid of the menace-and can be interchanged with the word "expel". This is not to say that the means of expulsion may not have included capital punishment-they were harsher times-but not necessarily so. In any case the church would not consider capital punishment for public heresy to be consistent with the gospel today, even if it may have been held to be appropriate at the time by the average Joe et al.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, I've read the 4th Lateran docs. Two points are relevant. The first is that the church and society were very serious at the time in the belief that public heresy posed a great danger to the stability of society.

Thank God that kind of thinking died out for some Christians in the dark ages, given that many Protestants were classed as "heretics"

The second point is that the term "exterminate" was meant to emphasize the need to be rid of the menace

Again - Thank God that kind of thinking died out for some Christians in the dark ages given that many Protestants were classed as "heretics"

This is not to say that the means of expulsion may not have included capital punishment-they were harsher times

So is that what is meant be "fundamentalist christians" - a repeat of that bad behavior certainly would not be welcomed by Christians today.

In any case the church would not consider capital punishment for public heresy to be consistent with the gospel

That goes without saying for anyone who read the New Testament -- thankfully

 

[BobRyan]

Of course you ignored half of my question...
My whole point is that there is no news organization in the world that completely reports on the Catholic Church correctly,

Then how lucky for us - we have you to give us the more detailed account of the news (actual verifiable facts) - not merely opinion and wishful thinking. I welcome your contribution in that regard.

 

[fhansen]

Thank God that kind of thinking died out for some Christians in the dark ages, given that many Protestants were classed as "heretics"

More like the middle ages-and the accusations were made by both sides well past the reformation period.

So is that what is meant be "fundamentalist christians" - a repeat of that bad behavior certainly would not be welcomed by Christians today.

Nope- humanity, at least in the west, acted all that out centuries ago. Hopefully we'll never repeat it.

That goes without saying for anyone who read the New Testament -- thankfully

No, not really. That goes without saying as society has been changed by the gospel-it doesn't happen overnight, either for humanity historically-or for individuals. The light takes time to penetrate. In fact, the main reason for human/civil rights movements in the west, for example, are, IMO, because of the gospel finally affecting our hearts-and consciences- even in the case of unbelievers. We still have a long ways to go.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Thank God that kind of thinking died out for some Christians in the dark ages, given that many Protestants were classed as "heretics"

Yeah, look where the change in thinking got us...37,000+ denominations.

Again - Thank God that kind of thinking died out for some Christians in the dark ages given that many Protestants were classed as "heretics"

Again, look where the change in thinking got us...

So is that what is meant be "fundamentalist christians" - a repeat of that bad behavior certainly would not be welcomed by Christians today.

Chemotherapy is not welcome either, but it saves lives...

That goes without saying for anyone who read the New Testament -- thankfully

That's why the Church never participated in Capital Punishment.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Then how lucky for us - we have you to give us the more detailed account of the news (actual verifiable facts) - not merely opinion and wishful thinking. I welcome your contribution in that regard.

The news is seldom uncolored by opinion, regardless of how you think.

Sarcasm noted, and unappreciated. When I want to know what the pope says, I read what the pope said. It's very well documented. Of course, you lazy types wouldn't bother to do that, so you have to rely on NewsMax, or me. That's your problem, not mine.

 

[BobRyan]

The news is seldom uncolored by opinion, regardless of how you think.

Shall we simply "not look at the news" if it is about something Pope Francis said??

 

[BobRyan]

Yeah, look where the change in thinking got us...37,000+ denominations.
Again, look where the change in thinking got us...
Chemotherapy is not welcome either, but it saves lives...
.

Trying to see how the violence in Paris and the Fundamentalists in the Catholic Church as reported by Pope Francis are somehow the same.

Your argument that the dark ages tactics are really not so wrong after all - is worrisome.