True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

[stuart lawrence]

But why would he or you have to try?

You said yourself that it is Christ in you, so where is the trying and where is the proving? I don't need to prove anything to anyone but Christ. You shouldn't either. If we can handle the God who see's all and know's all knowing everything we do, than people are not important.

We are past that. We have been bought with a price.

So please answer my previous question about the difference between justification and sanctification? Thanks.

Jason refuses to give his personal thoughts as to what born again means and the law placed within you. It is one thing to reel off scripture, quite another to explain the message the nletter contains

 

[ToBeLoved]

Please read the condition of how the blood is applied to you in 1 John 1:7.

I was talking to the guy who jumped in our conversation. A person saved by grace understands the blood of Christ.

The person who thinks their sin can take away God's promise is the one who needs understanding.

Let's move on. Back to my question.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Jesus turned the water into wine at that wedding.

Are you saying that Jesus loves drunkenness?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But why would he or you have to try?

You said yourself that it is Christ in you, so where is the trying and where is the proving? I don't need to prove anything to anyone but Christ. You shouldn't either. If we can handle the God who see's all and know's all knowing everything we do, than people are not important.

We are past that. We have been bought with a price.

So please answer my previous question about the difference between justification and sanctification? Thanks.

You first have to believe God's Word in regards to the truth concerning Conditional Salvation in order for there to be a real change. My guess is that you and Stuart do not believe it is possible to stop sinning in regards to the moral law. Is this a daily problem? If so, then you have not brought forth fruits worthy of repentance (like the Bible tells us to).

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jason refuses to give his personal thoughts as to what born again means and the law placed within you. It is one thing to reel off scripture, quite another to explain the message the nletter contains

I think that he knows that he needs to understand and explain the gospel

Don't tell me what to do and what not to do.

My question is legitimate and is in response to another post.

Ok. Well you just ask away then.

You are coming into a conversation, just so you realize that there is a lot going on.

Carry on.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Y

You first have to believe God's Word in regards to the truth concerning Conditional Salvation in order for there to be a real change. My guess is that you and Stuart do not believe it is possible to stop sinning in regards to the moral law. Is this a daily problem? If so, then you have not brought forth fruits worthy of repentance (like the Bible tells us to).

You've been breaking the moral law continuously in this thread. Crazy!

 

[ToBeLoved]

You first have to believe God's Word in regards to the truth concerning Conditional Salvation in order for there to be a real change. My guess is that you and Stuart do not believe it is possible to stop sinning in regards to the moral law. Is this a daily problem? If so, then you have not brought forth fruits worthy of repentance (like the Bible tells us to).

No, no. You asked me if I believe that we can stop sinning and I answered it pages ago.

So let's move on. You're not getting me back to what I've already answered.

 

[expos4ever]

What do you think this refers to? Moses law or moral law?

For in my inner being I delight in Gods law, but I see another law at work in the MEMBERS OF MY BODY waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work WITHIN MY MEMBERS rom 7:21-24
You sure you are not Jason opening up a second account?

I am not Jason.

God's law (first part of the text) is the Law of Moses. This "other law" is a way of describing the effect of this same Law of Moses on the unbeliever.

Paul's argument is this: the Law of Moses is a wonderful thing in and of itself, but when a person (Jew of course since only Jews are under the Law of Moses) who is otherwise still "in Adam" (not accepted Jesus through faith) tries to follow the Law, it trips him up and actually further enslaves him to the power of sin. A strange argument, perhaps, but it is, I suggest, the only way to take Paul seriously (and to not have to resort to distorting his words as some on this forum are clearly willing to do).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And yet another misunderstanding that is common amongst the big churches of today. Jesus made unfermented wine or grape juice. He did not create a beverage that would have been an endorsement for alcoholics to continue to drink.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I am not Jason.

God's law (first part of the text) is the Law of Moses. This "other law" is a way of describing the effect of this same Law of Moses on the unbeliever.

Paul's argument is this: the Law of Moses is a wonderful thing in and of itself, but when a person (Jew of course since only Jews are under the Law of Moses) who is otherwise still "in Adam" (not accepted Jesus through faith) tries to follow the Law, it trips him up and actually further enslaves him to the power of sin. A strange argument, perhaps, but it is, I suggest, the only way to take Paul seriously (and to not have to resort to distorting his words as some on this forum are clearly willing to do).

Paul could perfectly obey the law of Moses as Jason has admitted so your post is wowfully wrong

 

[stuart lawrence]

Te

I am not Jason.

God's law (first part of the text) is the Law of Moses. This "other law" is a way of describing the effect of this same Law of Moses on the unbeliever.

Paul's argument is this: the Law of Moses is a wonderful thing in and of itself, but when a person (Jew of course since only Jews are under the Law of Moses) who is otherwise still "in Adam" (not accepted Jesus through faith) tries to follow the Law, it trips him up and actually further enslaves him to the power of sin. A strange argument, perhaps, but it is, I suggest, the only way to take Paul seriously (and to not have to resort to distorting his words as some on this forum are clearly willing to do).

TeLL me what law Paul is referring to in rom7:7-11. The law of Moses or the moral law?

 

[ToBeLoved]

You first have to believe God's Word in regards to the truth concerning Conditional Salvation in order for there to be a real change. My guess is that you and Stuart do not believe it is possible to stop sinning in regards to the moral law. Is this a daily problem? If so, then you have not brought forth fruits worthy of repentance (like the Bible tells us to).

What is Conditional Salvation?

Salvation is a gift of grace.

 

[stuart lawrence]

What is Conditional Salvation?

Salvation is a gift of grace.

This is not stimulating conversation. I think I may as well go on christian chat, they are both so way off beam.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Paul is talking of the moral law in rom 7:7-11. This chap thinks he immediatley switches to speak of the law of Moses. It isn't stimulating conversation, it is boring

 

[stuart lawrence]

But then this is the internet lol

 

[stuart lawrence]

If he isn't Jason opening a second account he must be a friend of his, possibly from the same house church

 

[ToBeLoved]

And yet another misunderstanding that is common amongst the big churches of today. Jesus made unfermented wine or grape juice. He did not create a beverage that would have been an endorsement for alcoholics to continue to drink.

Me thinks that wine was wine.

Where do you get this theology from?

 

[expos4ever]

Paul could perfectly obey the law of Moses as Jason has admitted so your post is wowfully wrong

I agree that Paul could perfectly obey the Law of Moses, but that does not make my view incorrect. Paul is saying: Yes I can follow the Law of Moses perfectly, but the Law of Moses still strengthens the grip of sin on me. I think you are assuming that perfect obedience to the Law of Moses means that you do not sin. You would need to make that case, and I do not think you can do it.

Paul (before conversion) obeyed the Law of Moses but still found himself struggling against sin and doing evil things. There is no inconsistency here so I suggest my position is indeed sound. To show me to be mistaken, you would need to show that perfect obedience to the Law of Moses would mean that a person never sins. And I very much doubt you will be able to do this.

 

[expos4ever]

If he isn't Jason opening a second account he must be a friend of his, possibly from the same house church

Hey man, never heard of the guy. I have no idea what he believes except that that when Paul refers to "law", he is referring to the Law of Moses. And that, I agree with.

For all I know, I will find myself in hand-to-hand exegetical combat with him.

 

[ToBeLoved]

This is not stimulating conversation. I think I may as well go on christian chat, they are both so way off beam.

I think that he is just avoiding the justification and sanctification question by bringing up other topics.

I mean if he doesn't know, why not just say that? It's almost like lying avoiding the question like that.

Jason,

What does justification mean?

What does sanctification mean?

What's the difference between the two?

Maybe check your church web site, they may tell you what to think.