True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

[stuart lawrence]

Where did I ever say how great I am? I never give glory to myself for any good done in my life. Again, you are trying to throw mud on me or paint me as the villain when such is not the case at all. For I do not hold to the belief that you are trying to pin on me. On the contrary I have argued with two men (Claiming to be Christian) that we are saved by man directed works. He actually believed that. Crazy. But if you want to keep falsely accusing me of something I do not believe then go right ahead.


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You believe you have a righteousness under the law, according to Paul that is having a righteousness of your own(phil3:9) that is certainly boasting
Btw
No one ever attained heaven by a righteousness of observing the law, so your efforts are futile

 

[ToBeLoved]

Where did I ever say how great I am? I never give glory to myself for any good done in my life. Again, you are trying to throw mud on me or paint me as the villain when such is not the case at all. For I do not hold to the belief that you are trying to pin on me. On the contrary I have argued with two men (Claiming to be Christian) that we are saved by man directed works. He actually believed that. Crazy. But if you want to keep falsely accusing me of something I do not believe then go right ahead.


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I am not trying to throw mud at you. Not at all and if it seems that way, I apologize.

My point is that one cannot be focused on self and be spiritually in tune with God at the same time because God does not want us focused on self because that takes us back.

My point is that when one is spiritually in tune with God that it will naturally take the focus off of self. That's why God tells us the second most important commandment is to love our neighbor as yourself. Because as a servant of Christ, to be as He was is to serve others. One cannot serve others when the focus is on themselves and what they do.

Can't you see that?

So that is why I say that you need to stop focusing on sin.

 

[stuart lawrence]

The thing is that there should be nothing to hide if you are guilt free. And it would not be boasting if you privately send me a message about it. Only I would know and I would not tell anyone. Well, I do not even know who you are. So how could I tell people about you?


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I told you I am not here to boast. And you imply you better obey than you do. That is sinning in itself. I really am not bothered what you wish to assume about more. Your request showed immaturity to say the least. In all my years debating on websites I have found no one to make such a request before.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I am not attacking Paul for saying those words because they do not mean what you think they say. But I ask you again. Can you be found as a sinner in the sense of being a liar, or a hater, or a man who commits sexual immorality and still be saved? Or was Paul referring to being found a sinner in different kind of way?


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As I have told you about TEN TIMES now Paul was referring to the crossing over process from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness. A process you clearly do not understand as evidenced by your statements concerning this subject
It truly is tragic for a christian NOT to understand the justification /sanctification process of the christian walk

 

[ToBeLoved]

As I have told you about TEN TIMES now Paul was referring to the crossing over process from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness. A process you clearly do not understand as evidenced by your statements concerning this subject
It truly is tragic for a christian NOT to understand the justification /sanctification process of the christian walk

Jason,

Would you mind explaining justification and sanctification and the difference between the two?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Jason,

Would you mind explaining justification and sanctification and the difference between the two?

When you come to Christ you are immediately justified in the sense I you died the next day you die in a saved state because you have accepted Jesus as your saviour
However, the justification Paul is speaking of in gal2:15-18 is seeking to be justified in respecting to crossing over from being slaves of sin when we initially come to Christ into slaves of righteousness leading to holiness(rom6:17&18)
Though a christian I never completely sin free on this earth, there are sins that by their very nature will utterfly consume us if not dealt with and stop us moving forward to the place of being led into holiness. These sins would dominate us and leave us slaves to ynfodliness. EG alcoholism, serial affairs, heavy gambling,. These things need to ve dealt with in the crossing over stage Paul speaks of. Some sin we can imnediatly cease ourselves for it has not tied itself so tightly around us, but sin we are a slave to, that controls us we cannot of ourselves deal with. We must look to Christ and trust him, firstly that we are saved by a sole righteousness of him dying for our sins, and secondly to deliver us from the sin we are a slave to by the holy spirits power.
But Paul tells us Thi crossing over period is NOT instantaneous. Example. An alcoholic of thirty years becomes a christian. They stand by a righteousness of faith in Christ while they earnestly trust him to deal with the alcohol problem. According to Paul words they are found to be a sinner during this tine. But they gate the sin for they gave been born again, the last thing they want is for it to Sta there, but rather than them try to dwfeat it themselves to be justified before God they must look to Christ and trust him to dwal with it. From personal experience I know it I hard to look to Jesus during this crossing over period and trust him you are still saved despite the evident sin in your life. Many give up and walk away, believing they cannot be good enough for God. But if you persevere with standing in your one and only righteousness before God you will see such sins as mentioned defeated. You will then gave crossed over to being a slave of righteousness leading to holiness.
Then the sanctification begins. Living an ever more holy life for God, free of the sins that would stop you doing this. You are a continual work in progress your whole life ad you continue to stand in Christ alone as your righteousness and relying on the continual sanctification of the holy spirit
I am using a Mobil today. It is not was to explain as I would like to, it seems i am rushing it. If you would Lim to read of it fully explained please go to Assemblies of God/pentecostal forum. One of the threads is entitled Grace. Chapters 4,5&6 deal specifically with this issue
God bless

 

[ToBeLoved]

When you come to Christ you are immediately justified in the sense I you died the next day you die in a saved state because you have accepted Jesus as your saviour
However, the justification Paul is speaking of in gal2:15-18 is seeking to be justified in respecting to crossing over from being slaves of sin when we initially come to Christ into slaves of righteousness leading to holiness(rom6:17&18)
Though a christian I never completely sin free on this earth, there are sins that by their very nature will utterfly consume us if not dealt with and stop us moving forward to the place of being led into holiness. These sins would dominate us and leave us slaves to ynfodliness. EG alcoholism, serial affairs, heavy gambling,. These things need to ve dealt with in the crossing over stage Paul speaks of. Some sin we can imnediatly cease ourselves for it has not tied itself so tightly around us, but sin we are a slave to, that controls us we cannot of ourselves deal with. We must look to Christ and trust him, firstly that we are saved by a sole righteousness of him dying for our sins, and secondly to deliver us from the sin we are a slave to by the holy spirits power.
But Paul tells us Thi crossing over period is NOT instantaneous. Example. An alcoholic of thirty years becomes a christian. They stand by a righteousness of faith in Christ while they earnestly trust him to deal with the alcohol problem. According to Paul words they are found to be a sinner during this tine. But they gate the sin for they gave been born again, the last thing they want is for it to Sta there, but rather than them try to dwfeat it themselves to be justified before God they must look to Christ and trust him to dwal with it. From personal experience I know it I hard to look to Jesus during this crossing over period and trust him you are still saved despite the evident sin in your life. Many give up and walk away, believing they cannot be good enough for God. But if you persevere with standing in your one and only righteousness before God you will see such sins as mentioned defeated. You will then gave crossed over to being a slave of righteousness leading to holiness.
Then the sanctification begins. Living an ever more holy life for God, free of the sins that would stop you doing this. You are a continual work in progress your whole life ad you continue to stand in Christ alone as your righteousness and relying on the continual sanctification of the holy spirit
I am using a Mobil today. It is not was to explain as I would like to, it seems i am rushing it. If you would Lim to read of it fully explained please go to Assemblies of God/pentecostal forum. One of the threads is entitled Grace. Chapters 4,5&6 deal specifically with this issue
God bless and

I hope that Jason will answer as I'd like to know that he knows the difference between the two.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Ps sorry for the typo errors, but it I hard on my mobile phone not to make mistakes

 

[stuart lawrence]

I hope that Jason will answer as I'd like to know that he knows the difference between the two.

From jasons comments he certainly does not understand the justification process, bor do i believe he understands the sanctification process. It is just continual striving to be perfect. That usually results in highs and lows. For a short time you think you are doing great, then you realise you cannot perform sinless and dark depression comes over you at your faliure to be perfect. That is if you try and follow Thi route in sibcerity

 

[expos4ever]

Romans 3 is the chapter that really hits a home run in letting us know that Paul is talking about the "Law" as being in reference to the "Law of Moses."

Of course. I have just looked in on this thread. Are people disputing that Paul's references to "law" almost always, if not always, are a very specific reference to the Law of Moses?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As I have told you about TEN TIMES now Paul was referring to the crossing over process from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness. A process you clearly do not understand as evidenced by your statements concerning this subject
It truly is tragic for a christian NOT to understand the justification /sanctification process of the christian walk

If you believe in being a slave to righteousness, then answering the questions I put forth towards you (privately) should not be a problem.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Of course. I have just looked in on this thread. Are people disputing that Paul's references to "law" almost always, if not always, are a very specific reference to the Law of Moses?

Don't just jump in the middle here and way lay our conversation. No one is disputing the law. But we are under grace through the blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

From jasons comments he certainly does not understand the justification process, bor do i believe he understands the sanctification process. It is just continual striving to be perfect. That usually results in highs and lows. For a short time you think you are doing great, then you realise you cannot perform sinless and dark depression comes over you at your faliure to be perfect. That is if you try and follow Thi route in sibcerity

Highs and lows in what regards? Are we talking about sexual immorality, lying, hating, and drunkenness? The Bible warns against those who are lovers of pleasures instead of lovers of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Don't just jump in the middle here and way lay our conversation. No one is disputing the law. But we are under grace through the blood of Jesus Christ.

I don't think you understood what they said. We are under a New Covenant with New Commands and not the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses could not offer grace like the New Covenant because you could be killed for disobeying certain Commands.


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[stuart lawrence]

Of course. I have just looked in on this thread. Are people disputing that Paul's references to "law" almost always, if not always, are a very specific reference to the Law of Moses?

What do you think this refers to? Moses law or moral law?

For in my inner being I delight in Gods law, but I see another law at work in the MEMBERS OF MY BODY waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work WITHIN MY MEMBERS rom 7:21-24
You sure you are not Jason opening up a second account?

 

[ToBeLoved]

If you believe in being a slave to righteousness, then answering the questions I put forth towards you (privately) should not be a problem.

But why would he or you have to try?

You said yourself that it is Christ in you, so where is the trying and where is the proving? I don't need to prove anything to anyone but Christ. You shouldn't either. If we can handle the God who see's all and know's all knowing everything we do, than people are not important.

We are past that. We have been bought with a price.

So please answer my previous question about the difference between justification and sanctification? Thanks.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Highs and lows in what regards? Are we talking about sexual immorality, lying, hating, and drunkenness? The Bible warns against those who are lovers of pleasures instead of lovers of God.

I was brought up with people reeling off pat answers. It is superficial and weak

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Don't just jump in the middle here and way lay our conversation. No one is disputing the law. But we are under grace through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Please read the condition of how the blood is applied to you in 1 John 1:7.

 

[expos4ever]

Don't just jump in the middle here and way lay our conversation. No one is disputing the law. But we are under grace through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Don't tell me what to do and what not to do.

My question is legitimate and is in response to another post.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Highs and lows in what regards? Are we talking about sexual immorality, lying, hating, and drunkenness? The Bible warns against those who are lovers of pleasures instead of lovers of God.

Jesus turned the water into wine at that wedding.

Are you saying that Jesus loves drunkenness?