Could anyone tell me if this is true?

[Subduction Zone]

Good, then apparently there are a lot of people in error in this thread. Probably both sides of the isle here as well, as I doubt from the comments that all of the Christians posting here agree with what I said either. Maybe these sorts of discussions tend to attract the fringe elements.

I have more than once seen the creationist side conflate creationists and Christians. Some creationists seem to believe that Christians cannot accept the theory of evolution. I have not seen any atheists make that mistake.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

First atheists do not reject God. We correctly point out that there is no reliable evidence for any gods. And no, we know that most Christians accept the theory of evolution.

Also atheists do not attempt to disprove the existence of gods. It is enough to point out that you have not met the burden of proof that is upon you as a theist. And lastly, nothing is "proven" in science. But if go by the legal standard of "proven beyond a reasonable doubt". Then by that standard the theory of evolution has been proven.

As to what one is claiming atheist know or not, my remark was based on comments by atheist in this thread and those comments do not support the opinion just expressed as to what atheist are claimed to know about Christians. In fact the comments here suggest to me a general ignorance on the part of at least some atheist as to what "most" Christians believe. Based on those observations alone am not sure why I should accept a contrary claim about what atheist are said to "know" about Christians. Assuming I am suppose to go by the evidence presented in this thread and not just unsupported opinions.

So this reply to me is sort of my point and I see it was misunderstood.
If something cannot be proven or disproven, why would we want our public schools to hold up one idea over the other or even see teaching one as wrong and while seeing teaching the other as ok?
I think what we should all object to is either idea being presented as opposed to the other, which is blatantly false.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I have more than once seen the creationist side conflate creationists and Christians. Some creationists seem to believe that Christians cannot accept the theory of evolution. I have not seen any atheists make that mistake.

I never said that or claimed that no Christians have been led to think that creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive, but since it is mentioned I would expect the numbers are not small, especially on the Protestant side of the house since the Church does not teach that.

Maybe I missed the message of posts like #138 but to me the same mistake in making false assumptions is evident here on both sides.

 

[juvenissun]

Do you think Satan is more powerful than God or is it because God doesn't care?

Exactly on the opposite, God CARES very very very much. The whole Christian doctrine is trying to explain that.

Christianity has only one God and satan is not that one. So, by definition, satan can not be more powerful than God.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Which version of the creation would you like taught in schools there are hundreds of them? should each school teach a different one or should they teach as many as they can and because we don't know how god did it would just 'goddidit' suffice?

Speaking as a non American atheist I think creationism should be taught in every American school, in fact teaching it should be mandatory, of course I say that tongue in cheek because the last thing the world needs is another over zealous religious country like Iran with atomic weapons it can throw at people who do not agree with them.

Not sure someone comparing our history with that of Islamic nations is in a position to properly talk to others about lessons from history.
This reply further supports my point about atheist replying in this thread and is in conflict with the opposing opinion given about what atheist claim to "know" about Christians (and apparently expands that thought to history as well).

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Which version of the creation would you like taught in schools there are hundreds of them? should each school teach a different one or should they teach as many as they can and because we don't know how god did it would just 'goddidit' suffice?

Reply divided to address question directly.

I would be more concerned with a teacher presenting theories, even if it is felt to be a particularly good one, as facts over whether or not they presented all possible theories or limited it to only possible theories that some or all scientist accept. In my experience many teachers (and supporters) seem to want to present evolution as a fact when it is not. Would also be more concerned with a teacher prompting the idea that theories, or science in general for that matter, can explain anything in a manner which makes or even suggests the existence of God is mutually exclusive with the idea being promoted. And I believe I am in agreement with the correct, or at least like to think the correct idea being expressed here by atheist, is that science should not do that.

Science represents man's collective quest for knowledge and the Christian knows such a quest is a search for Truth. A longing that is part of our nature to seek Truth. The Christian also knows Who is the Truth and Who gave us that longing to seek Him.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

Yeah. The longer I live, the more I feel that this world is really run by satan. I was told about this since I became a Christian. But never before I feel it so vivid and strong.

Oh. it's real alright. You only have to take a look at what is happening in this world to realise this. Make no mistake - satan is waging war against humanity on both the physical and spiritual fronts.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

staff edit

Why would and how could an atheist imagine what would or would not be a proper "kind of God" for a Christian to believe in?

And if an atheist were to imagine the existence of a god, why would they assume the deity could only behave in a manner that suited the creatures that god had made?
What "kind of God" would an atheist imagine as proper and why would that not be "hogwash"?
Why should anyone, let alone an atheist, be limited to only imagining a God that would not allow creatures having free choices to exist, which rather makes hogwash of our reality (apologies in advance to Calvinist but I did say imagine).

I guess the proper question is what deficit of the imagination/mind is required in order to be able to imagine something existing only in a way that makes no logical sense?

 

[Black Dog]

What you said is ALL caused by non-creationists.
Do you know ANY government leader who is a creationist in either US or in Britain? I guess there is none. I think there is none in this world.
So, if you don't like the world, blame the non-creationists.

GWB was. Rick Perry is. Most southern Govenors and elected officials are. The leaders of a number of the hardcore Muslim countries probably are.

 

[juvenissun]

With your God doing nothing about it, Satan must be pretty big in the world of Gods because he seems to be able to do whatever he wants, what is the point of a God if Satan can overturn his plans? it doesn't sound like the kind of God who deserves to be worshipped, either that or it's all a load of hogwash.

That is a demonstration of the power of God. Satan can not fight God (by definition). So satan is fighting human. You, an atheist, is a casualty of the fight. I, a Christian, is a winner in the fight. Am I more powerful than you? No way. I am the same as you are. The only difference is that I invited God to be on my side, so satan has to leave me alone.

So, you know, satan has no way to overturn whatever God intents to do. However, YOU, rather than satan, do can defeat God. God wants you, but you don't want God. God can do nothing about it but let you go your own way. (satan is laughing on the side and saying: I won in this case)

 

[juvenissun]

GWB was. Rick Perry is. Most southern Govenors and elected officials are. The leaders of a number of the hardcore Muslim countries probably are.

Muslims are no creationists.

A few political leaders in the US were or are (you forgot Ronald Reagan). But they can not fight the much bigger crowd of non-creationists (I love Rick Perry. But you can see what happened to him in the presidential race). Even that, they made the US special and stands out in the world.

 

[Black Dog]

Muslims are no creationists.

A few political leaders in the US were or are (you forgot Ronald Reagan). But they can not fight the much bigger crowd of non-creationists (I love Rick Perry. But you can see what happened to him in the presidential race). Even that, they made the US special and stands out in the world.

The hardcore Muslims must believe the world was created by some supreme being or beings. Yeah, I thought of Rompin' Ronnie, but I wasn't sure. Yes, the USA is a "special" country. And getting more "special" by the day.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Muslims are no creationists.

A few political leaders in the US were or are (you forgot Ronald Reagan). But they can not fight the much bigger crowd of non-creationists (I love Rick Perry. But you can see what happened to him in the presidential race). Even that, they made the US special and stands out in the world.

Gotta correct you there brother. By definition creationist simply means a deity is responsible for the existence of this world. If we narrow that definition to the Christian understanding of God, then we could perhaps exclude the Muslims. However most people consider Islam as believing a god created this world.

 

[Strathos]

The separation of church and state is a big mistake.

Unless it's not your church that's suddenly in charge.

 

[bhsmte]

I think the "non-creationists" are becoming more and more frustrated because their pseudo-science is being rejected by more and more people as they discover the truth behind the hype, despite the almost total bias in the mass media in favour of evolutionism, so the secularists/evolutionists/non-creationists, whatever you want to call them, are having to resort to mud slinging like this. Actually, politics is a good profession for non-creationists because, as you have probably noticed, politicians hardly ever give a straight answer to a question!

I think you have that backwards.

Most Christians, agree with evolution and those numbers are growing and have been for a long time.

 

[juvenissun]

The hardcore Muslims must believe the world was created by some supreme being or beings. Yeah, I thought of Rompin' Ronnie, but I wasn't sure. Yes, the USA is a "special" country. And getting more "special" by the day.

Not all religious people who believed that god creates are Creationists. Creationism has a much wider content.

 

[juvenissun]

Gotta correct you there brother. By definition creationist simply means a deity is responsible for the existence of this world. If we narrow that definition to the Christian understanding of God, then we could perhaps exclude the Muslims. However most people consider Islam as believing a god created this world.

For one thing, a Creationist believes the doctrine of original sin. a fetus is a sinful person.
As far as I know, only Christians recognize that. Muslims accept the Book of Genesis. But they do not believe the doctrine of original sin.

Theistic evolutionists like to call themselves Christians. But I am not sure they recognize the same origin of sin.

Creationism should be defined by a wider scope of content. Otherwise, there are probably hundreds of religions could be included in Creationism.

 

[juvenissun]

Unless it's not your church that's suddenly in charge.

A nation should be built under an unified religion.

A classical communist country is an acceptable example. The whole nation does not believe any god. Any religious group in a communist country does not have any political power.

 

[bhsmte]

A nation should be built under an unified religion.

A classical communist country is an acceptable example. The whole nation does not believe any god. Any religious group in a communist country does not have any political power.

How do you go about getting all people to agree with the doctrines of one unified religion?

For example, there are so many denominations of Christianity it is hard to keep track of them and this is because these people don't agree with the other denominations doctrines.

 

[juvenissun]

I thought 75% of Americans were supposed to be Christians so how come the US is in so much trouble? why are Christians suffering so much and why is Satan having such a ball in the US and very little success in Europe?
Has your God abandoned the Middle East and handed it over to Satan?
How do you know that Satan is the bad one and your God is the good one? it sounds as if your God is not as all powerful as you would like to think he is.

By the way, you are more powerful than your God......... because you can make him disappear just by changing your mind.

Satan can not reject the existence of God. You can.
I also can. But I "chose" not to. That is why God loves me more.

A kid may choose to walk out of home. But that does not mean the kid is more powerful than his mom and dad. Satan can not get you when you are home. But he certainly can when you walked out the home.

So, there is a hymn called : Come Home.