The origins of atheism

[Chriliman]

Because this "infinite" being/person that can do anything, never began, will never end, needs nothing, does not need evidence, does not regard evidence, cannot be tested, supersedes all logical rules, reasons, methods, exists outside of them all... undermines and denies all our logical rules and methods.

What if this eternal infinite being can only do what's perfectly correct or right? Within it's perfect creation are perfect finite beings that have free will to do as they please. Do you see anything illogical so far?

Would it be unfathomable to imagine that some of these perfect beings with free will, chose a will that was against the eternal infinite beings will? Since the eternal infinite beings will is to only do what is correct or right, this would mean the perfect finite being's will is to only do what is wrong or incorrect since they're going against the perfectly correct and right will of the eternal infinite being. Still logically possible correct?

The eternal infinite being is the only being capable of seeing everything as it truly is, therefore, would be the only being capable of making everything right/correct out of what seems so wrong/incorrect from a finite being's perspective. Still logically possible.

So again, please explain how an eternal infinite God could not have created the universe as it exists right now, keeping in mind that you yourself are a finite being viewing things from your finite perspective. You don't have the capability of seeing everything as it truly is.

It undermines and denies logic itself. It was fathomed only to answer our darkest and most daunting questions and fears, it exists only in our needs. It only occurs on the occasion of our need for answers.

I just showed how it does not undermine and deny logic itself.

Should our darkest and most daunting questions and fears not have answers? If so, why?

Why shouldn't there be an answer to our every question? Is it because you don't want to know the answer?

 

[HitchSlap]

Herod killed babies for his own reasons, that wasn't Gods doing.

This never happened in reality.

 

[HitchSlap]

*We have the accounts of Jesus' Word to the extent he was accurately remembered.

* When Jesus returned to heaven he left the world with "the spirit of truth" which bears witness presently to the truth he taught ages ago. For believers Jesus Christ is now present with us even here as we defend those who hate his Loving message.

More baseless assertions.

 

[HitchSlap]

No, I'm making points that you are too proud to acknowledge because you will not extend spiritualist the same courtesy which you demand of others.

Why should "spiritualists" expect the same courtesy? Not all propositions should be treated as equal in the marketplace of ideas, only those clams which can be objectively verified should be considered as having value. All else is nonsense.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You require lessons in intellectual honesty, because you also believe in a unicornless, leprechaunless, merlin-less, pink graviton fairy-less, gooblydock-less........ universe.

I actually don't.

I define things by the properties that are actually present.
I don't define things by properties that are not present or that can't shown to be present.

Otherwise, every definition of anything would be infinatly long.

Your "logic" would mean that one believes the "-less" version of anything your imagination can produce - including words that haven't even been invented yet.

Which is downright bizarre. Not to mention completely meaningless.

But hey....... whatever you have to do so that you can convince yourself that atheism is a "belief" ha... No matter how non-sensical it gets.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The existence of religion across all cultures is proof of faith, of the existence of faith.

It is evidence that humans, like most animals, have a tendency to be superstitious.

 

[TheQuietRiot]

Atheism is a belief about the universe. I call it a kind of faith because you cannot definitively disprove God.

Atheism is a word to describe the lack of belief in a god(s). I don't try to disprove the existence of any god(s) as I have not been shown any evidence to suggest a being exists in the first place.

So therefore I do not have faith of any kind in anything you are talking about.

 

[Hikarifuru]

Chriliman

What if this eternal infinite being can only do what's perfectly correct or right? Within it's perfect creation are perfect finite beings that have free will to do as they please. Do you see anything illogical so far?

You are providing contradictory themes. I do not believe in free will (it doesn't exist) and I do not think that's relevant anyway.

Would it be unfathomable to imagine that some of these perfect beings with free will, chose a will that was against the eternal infinite beings will? Since the eternal infinite beings will is to only do what is correct or right, this would mean the perfect finite being's will is to only do what is wrong or incorrect since they're going against the perfectly correct and right will of the eternal infinite being. Still logically possible correct?

The eternal infinite being is the only being capable of seeing everything as it truly is, therefore, would be the only being capable of making everything right/correct out of what seems so wrong/incorrect from a finite being's perspective. Still logically possible.

So again, please explain how an eternal infinite God could not have created the universe as it exists right now, keeping in mind that you yourself are a finite being viewing things from your finite perspective. You don't have the capability of seeing everything as it truly is.

What you provided was why you think it reasonable that an eternal infinite being act in a certain way or act contrary to our understanding.

You did not provide why this eternal and infinite being is logically sound or why his infinite nature that is immune to logic itself, is somehow still logical. Even energy or scientific principles of infinite things can be defined and evaluated and are still based on logical measured principles.Your being cannot and simply does not need to be measured or even known. You insist that it cannot be known... it has no regard for logic... it is not logical. It is foolish to even entertain this.

I just showed how it does not undermine and deny logic itself.

No you did not.

Should our darkest and most daunting questions and fears not have answers? If so, why?

Whether or not there should be answers is the wrong question to ask... the question to ask is what are the answers and if we do not have them then that is the conclusion.

Why shouldn't there be an answer to our every question? Is it because you don't want to know the answer?

You don't get to demand an answer, you either have answers or you do not and if you do not then you have no choice in the matter and you die without ever knowing.

 

[Hikarifuru]

No, I'm making points that you are too proud to acknowledge because you will not extend spiritualist the same courtesy which you demand of others.

No you didn't make any points... you said you agreed I had love and I said the reason you said this is because there is plenty of evidence that I have love and you knew that.

 

[Hikarifuru]

You haven't provided evidence of Love yet.

Actually I did... I said love is a common occurrence, you'd be an idiot to dare say I do not have love, you agreed I had love. I have a mother, father, two children, friends, I said love is biological.. there is plenty of evidence I have love. You'd need A LOT of evidence to dare say I do not love any of these.

 

[Hikarifuru]

Herod killed babies for his own reasons, that wasn't Gods doing.

The Egyptians babies were though, the Babylonians babies were too... and the babies of the cities that surrounded young Isreal were too.

Just how much of this bible do you disregard as untrue?

 

[Hikarifuru]

What if this eternal infinite being can only do what's perfectly correct or right? Within it's perfect creation are perfect finite beings that have free will to do as they please. Do you see anything illogical so far?

Would it be unfathomable to imagine that some of these perfect beings with free will, chose a will that was against the eternal infinite beings will? Since the eternal infinite beings will is to only do what is correct or right, this would mean the perfect finite being's will is to only do what is wrong or incorrect since they're going against the perfectly correct and right will of the eternal infinite being. Still logically possible correct?

The eternal infinite being is the only being capable of seeing everything as it truly is, therefore, would be the only being capable of making everything right/correct out of what seems so wrong/incorrect from a finite being's perspective. Still logically possible.

So again, please explain how an eternal infinite God could not have created the universe as it exists right now, keeping in mind that you yourself are a finite being viewing things from your finite perspective. You don't have the capability of seeing everything as it truly is.



I just showed how it does not undermine and deny logic itself.

Should our darkest and most daunting questions and fears not have answers? If so, why?

Why shouldn't there be an answer to our every question? Is it because you don't want to know the answer?

Whether or not we should have answers is the wrong question.... the millions of Jews who never had hope in Auschwitz did not have answers. The tens of thousands of children who die on earth everyday do not have answers. No we do not "deserve" answers.

Hitler was executing up to 6,000 Jews a day, 6,000 a day and in a single camp alone... single camps were killing 6,000 people a day. No humans do not "deserve" answers. But the answer can be clear and that is that this world was never designed and it was never meant to work out well for you.

 

[Colter]

This never happened in reality.

Baseless assertion

 

[Chriliman]

Chriliman

What if this eternal infinite being can only do what's perfectly correct or right? Within it's perfect creation are perfect finite beings that have free will to do as they please. Do you see anything illogical so far?

You are providing contradictory themes. I do not believe in free will (it doesn't exist) and I do not think that's relevant anyway.

Ah, so your world view is based on your beliefs and not based on evidence? There is no evidence that proves we do not have free will.

Would it be unfathomable to imagine that some of these perfect beings with free will, chose a will that was against the eternal infinite beings will? Since the eternal infinite beings will is to only do what is correct or right, this would mean the perfect finite being's will is to only do what is wrong or incorrect since they're going against the perfectly correct and right will of the eternal infinite being. Still logically possible correct?

The eternal infinite being is the only being capable of seeing everything as it truly is, therefore, would be the only being capable of making everything right/correct out of what seems so wrong/incorrect from a finite being's perspective. Still logically possible.

So again, please explain how an eternal infinite God could not have created the universe as it exists right now, keeping in mind that you yourself are a finite being viewing things from your finite perspective. You don't have the capability of seeing everything as it truly is.

What you provided was why you think it reasonable that an eternal infinite being act in a certain way or act contrary to our understanding.

You did not provide why this eternal and infinite being is logically sound or why his infinite nature that is immune to logic itself, is somehow still logical. Even energy or scientific principles of infinite things can be defined and evaluated and are still based on logical measured principles.Your being cannot and simply does not need to be measured or even known. You insist that it cannot be known... it has no regard for logic... it is not logical. It is foolish to even entertain this.

I never said his infinite nature is immune to logic itself.

Logically, if this eternal infinite being exists, then it would be the source of all logic. Which would show why you can't use logic to show that this being is impossible. Therefore, it's irrational to believe this being is impossible, if you value logic.

I just showed how it does not undermine and deny logic itself.

No you did not.

If you value logic, then yes I did.

Should our darkest and most daunting questions and fears not have answers? If so, why?

Whether or not there should be answers is the wrong question to ask... the question to ask is what are the answers and if we do not have them then that is the conclusion.

Asking the question "what are the answers" implies one must first assume answers can be known. The fact that some currently conclude that we don't have the answers, does not mean the answers can't be known.

Should we expect answers to come from finite beings who can't possibly see everything as it truly is?

Why shouldn't there be an answer to our every question? Is it because you don't want to know the answer?

You don't get to demand an answer, you either have answers or you do not and if you do not then you have no choice in the matter and you die without ever knowing.

It's a good thing you're not dead yet. Ultimately, the fact is that your world view is based on your beliefs and not on evidence, as I pointed out in the beginning of this post.

 

[Colter]

More baseless assertions.

We found the base

 

[HitchSlap]

Baseless assertion

There is zero archeological evidence or any extrabiblical historical record to substantiate the assertion that Herod killed all the children under two. None.

 

[HitchSlap]

We found the base

Shouldn't be a problem for you to demonstrate this with objective evidence, then.

 

[Colter]

Why should "spiritualists" expect the same courtesy? Not all propositions should be treated as equal in the marketplace of ideas, only those clams which can be objectively verified should be considered as having value. All else is nonsense.

Among religionist we extend the courtesy.

 

[Colter]

Shouldn't be a problem for you to demonstrate this with objective evidence, then.

Why would there be, Bethlehem was small village? The UB has it that 16 male babies were killed.

 

[Colter]

The Egyptians babies were though, the Babylonians babies were too... and the babies of the cities that surrounded young Isreal were too.

Just how much of this bible do you disregard as untrue?

You are correct. The OT contains many exaggerations for effect.