True or False Rom. 2:13

[Theodore A. Jones]

OK. True or false? "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 This statement by Paul is the greatest non-christian statement that has ever been written by a true Christian.

 

[Steeno7]

OK. True or false? "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 This statement by Paul is the greatest non-christian statement that has ever been written by a true Christian.

False. It's not a Christian statement. It's a statement about those who are under the Law. Under the Law it is do this, do it all, and do it perfectly, and then you will be justified. Of course the problem with that is that no one can or could. Enter Jesus.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

False. It's not a Christian statement. It's a statement about those who are under the Law. Under the Law it is do this, do it all, and do it perfectly, and then you will be justified. Of course the problem with that is that no one can or could. Enter Jesus.

So then. The fellow who has been credited to have written about half of the NT cannon is judged by you to have penned a false statement!?

 

[2KnowHim]

True statement indeed, for it is Christ who fulfilled the Law and all it's demands. Therefore if Christ be in us, it is no longer "I" who live but "Christ".
We who have never had the law, live the Righteousness of The law because of the one who lives within us. He is The one who is living, He is The One who is Righteous.

We who have been baptized into Christ have been baptized into His Death, He is The Righteousness of the Law that now lives in us.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Paul's statement is: "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, BUT! it is those (to the exclusion of all others) who obey the law who will be declared righteous (by God)." Rom. 2:13 Your response does not identify the law Paul is referencing.

 

[Steeno7]

So then. The fellow who has been credited to have written about half of the NT cannon is judged by you to have penned a false statement!?

No, what I have judged is that Paul was addressing those under the Law, not Christians.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

No, what I have judged is that Paul was addressing those under the Law, not Christians.

No, what I have judged is that Paul was addressing those under the Law, not Christians.

Well if that ain't a flip flop. Didn't you type in FALSE in response #2? or perhaps somebody else has been using your computer? Feller you can only become a true Christian by actually obeying that law Paul has cited. And BTW your defense "addressing those under the Law, not Christians." is Unitarianism 101. Have a nice day.

 

[counJS]

False, Obedience shows our love for God by doing what he says.

 

[Steeno7]

Well if that ain't a flip flop. Didn't you type in FALSE in response #2? or perhaps somebody else has been using your computer? Feller you can only become a true Christian by actually obeying that law Paul has cited. And BTW your defense "addressing those under the Law, not Christians." is Unitarianism 101. Have a nice day.

Ummmm, I became a Christian by believing and receiving Jesus Christ, not by obeying a law that Paul cited. That's Christianity 101.

 

[counJS]

So the apostle Paul that God himself has elected to teach the gentiles what they must obey to be saved is full of bull dung in your opinion aye?

I'm not sure what you mean. Faith and obedience walk hand in hand in the christian faith. There is no contradiction

 

[SAAN]

OK. True or false? "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 This statement by Paul is the greatest non-christian statement that has ever been written by a true Christian.

Paul is saying what had been going on since the beginning. God said repeatably to his people over and over, if you keep his commandments, he will bless you and if you dont he will punish you. So Paul saying those who try to obey Gods commands will be declared righteous is correct. While we wont be perfect at it and God knows this, that is where the blood of Jesus comes in to cover our sins, when we do mess up and break his commands.

 

[Steeno7]

Paul is saying what had been going on since the beginning. God said repeatably to his people over and over, if you keep his commandments, he will bless you and if you dont he will punish you. So Paul saying those who try to obey Gods commands will be declared righteous is correct. While we wont be perfect at it and God knows this, that is where the blood of Jesus comes in to cover our sins, when we do mess up and break his commands.

Nope. "Trying" to obey is not actually obeying. Here's the one and only way of being declared righteous...

Philippians 3:9
"and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith"

And if you say otherwise you are saying that Christ came, suffered and died for nothing....

Galatians 2:21
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

 

[SAAN]

Nope. "Trying" to obey is not actually obeying. Here's the one and only way of being declared righteous...

Philippians 3:9
"and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith"

And if you say otherwise you are saying that Christ came, suffered and died for nothing....

Galatians 2:21
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

We try to obey Gods command because we are saved, NOT to try to get saved. There was grace in the OT too before Jesus. Im pretty sure all the believers back then didnt go to hell because Jesus didnt come and die yet.

 

[Steeno7]

We try to obey Gods command because we are saved, NOT to try to get saved. There was grace in the OT too before Jesus. Im pretty sure all the believers back then didnt go to hell because Jesus didnt come and die yet.

Why do you bother trying a comeback when you have nothing to come back with?

 

[Poster0]

Ummmm, I became a Christian by believing and receiving Jesus Christ, not by obeying a law that Paul cited. That's Christianity 101.

Yes, about that believing thing.

Faith 101:

James 2:14-26

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

 

[Poster0]

Philippians 3:9
"and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith"

And if you say otherwise you are saying that Christ came, suffered and died for nothing....

Galatians 2:21
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Yes, its by faith that we are declared righteous. Why do some posters here argue against following commands? Why do they seem to suggest that its not faith? You cant argue against James, and even paul teaches the same.

Faith 101:

James 2:14-26
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.


Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Poster0]

Have you considered that perhaps it is not everyone else who has it wrong?? In looking at your posts I see you have judged this forum and it's members very quickly, based in nothing more than a lack of immediate and complete agreement with every word you have written. Should we judge you in the same way as you have judged??

I haven't read most of Theodore's posts, but what i have read so far doesn't seem any worse than others. We should love each other. So maybe hes having trouble adjusting to this forum. Paul says that a teacher must be patient with people. If anyone here thinks they know anything then maybe they should be patient with others and prove that they know something. I see no need to try and throw people out of this forum, because that only hurts people. Love does no harm to it neighbor.

 

[Poster0]

Here is another translation for a part of Romans 6. This translation is the basic English version, provided by CF. It seems clear that yes we are set free from death that comes from sin, however paul is still telling us to follow what is holy and righteous. Hes telling us to obey the commands that the apostles give us. No one should need to be told this, but paul must have felt that it was needed because he told people this often. Why would anyone argue against obeying commands? I just dont understand that reasoning. It doesn't make sense that sin would kill us, then Christ would pay the price to save us from that death, only for us to go back to the same thing that killed us in the first place. (im referring to sin, not law) When you become clean you dont go back to the mudhole. This is not to say that we are perfect, at least im not, but i try my best and when i fail i must rely on Gods mercy because there is no other way i can live without it. I keep trying no matter how may times i fail because to me thats faith.


I freely give myself to Gods grace and his commands as well.

Romans 6:17 But praise be to God that though you were the servants of sin, you have now given yourselves freely to that form of teaching under which you were placed; 18 And being made free from sin you have been made the servants of righteousness.

19 I am using words in the way of men, because your flesh is feeble: as you gave your bodies as servants to what is unclean, and to evil to do evil, so now give them as servants to righteousness to do what is holy.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Have you considered that perhaps it is not everyone else who has it wrong?? In looking at your posts I see you have judged this forum and it's members very quickly, based in nothing more than a lack of immediate and complete agreement with every word you have written. Should we judge you in the same way as you have judged??

Frankly I am not in a popularity contest and neither am I the author of "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13
If your soteriological conjecture is correct; that man's statement isn't, but he is not incorrect, you all are.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Here is another translation for a part of Romans 6. This translation is the basic English version, provided by CF. It seems clear that yes we are set free from death that comes from sin, however paul is still telling us to follow what is holy and righteous. Hes telling us to obey the commands that the apostles give us. No one should need to be told this, but paul must have felt that it was needed because he told people this often. Why would anyone argue against obeying commands? I just dont understand that reasoning. It doesn't make sense that sin would kill us, then Christ would pay the price to save us from that death, only for us to go back to the same thing that killed us in the first place. (im referring to sin, not law) When you become clean you dont go back to the mudhole. This is not to say that we are perfect, at least im not, but i try my best and when i fail i must rely on Gods mercy because there is no other way i can live without it. I keep trying no matter how may times i fail because to me thats faith.


I freely give myself to Gods grace and his commands as well.

Romans 6:17 But praise be to God that though you were the servants of sin, you have now given yourselves freely to that form of teaching under which you were placed; 18 And being made free from sin you have been made the servants of righteousness.

19 I am using words in the way of men, because your flesh is feeble: as you gave your bodies as servants to what is unclean, and to evil to do evil, so now give them as servants to righteousness to do what is holy.

"that form of teaching" you have faith in is not what the apostles have taught. Your collective common error of judgement is the assumption that the word law in the OT or NT is always referencing the written Sinai code, but it isn't.