The ten commandments Old covenant, and the law "done away" and "abolished" as paul said

[nomadictheist]

How could one, who has the commandments, that Yeshua gave, written on their hearts, disregard them? He said all the Law and the Prophets hang on those two commandments. Not that those two commandments hang on the Law.
I don't know of any time in the history of the world that men had covenant laws that did not hang on these two commandments.

How can the commandments be written on our hearts if they're null and void?

I'm aware that Jesus said all the Law and the prophets hang on those two commandments. I made that point before. That means all the law and the prophets show us how to love each other, because honestly, we're too stupid to figure it out on our own.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Now you are mixing things up a bit, I think. Who are you calling the Body of Christ? The Body of Christ exists on both sides of the cross.

The OT saints were saved but are referred to as being baptized unto Moses. The New testament sants are saved the same way but are referred to as the body of Christ. Both are in Christ and born again but the OT saints were hidden in mystery in Christ they had Christ in them the hope pf glory. All believers in the NT also have Christ in them the hope of glory, but we have a full assurance of hope and a clean conscience, they could not be made perfect as pertaining to the conscience by the law and carnal ordinances etc.

 

[LoveofTruth]

How can the commandments be written on our hearts if they're null and void?

I'm aware that Jesus said all the Law and the prophets hang on those two commandments. I made that point before. That means all the law and the prophets show us how to love each other, because honestly, we're too stupid to figure it out on our own.

When Jesus was transfigured Moses and Elijah were talking with him. Then they faded away and all that was left was Jesus . The Father said this is my beloved Son, hear Him. The law and the prophets are figured by Moses and Elijah and they faded away to reveal only Christ. Some still live in shadows though sadly.

 

[LoveofTruth]

"I have not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it"] "

Jesus dint say that , he said he did not come to "destroy the law". The word abolished is not in the Greek. Its a different word in THE bible. I don't know what bible you use.

 

[nomadictheist]

how much more clear do you need it., you greatly error here

"9 When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the Lord made with you, ..."(Deuteronomy 9:9 KJV)

"13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone."(Deuteronomy 4;13 KJV)

2 Chronicles 6:11: "And there I have set the ark, in which is the covenant of the Lord, which He made with the sons of Israel."

"21 And I have set there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of the Lord, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt."(1 Kings 8:21 KJV)

I could go on, it is so clear to the unbiased reader. The veil is on the heart in reading the OT for many as Paul says. They just cannot see it

and "after the tenor" means after the mouth or words spoken, speech. You twist again in a desperate attempt to hang on to straws as your doctrine is failing it seems.

"Therefore whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do so, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does and teaches them, the same will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

By the way, your ignorance of middle English is evident here. The word "tenor" is best translated (by itself) "mouth," or "spoken speech," yes. But the phrase "after the tenor of" is a part of that era's phraseology (much like to "strike a deal" doesn't mean to physically assault an agreement in today's speech), and is best translated in more modern English as "based upon" or "in accordance with."
The KJV only mentality causes many who are ignorant of the changes that have overtaken the English language to stumble

 

[LoveofTruth]

"Therefore whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do so, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does and teaches them, the same will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

By the way, your ignorance of middle English is evident here. The word "tenor" is best translated (by itself) "mouth," or "spoken speech," yes. But the phrase "after the tenor of" is a part of that era's phraseology (much like to "strike a deal" doesn't mean to physically assault an agreement in today's speech), and is best translated in more modern English as "based upon" or "in accordance with."
The KJV only mentality causes many who are ignorant of the changes that have overtaken the English language to stumble

The verse does not say what you try to make it say. I showed many verses and i can show more that the covenant IS the ten commandments.

Trying to side track on strifes of words is not the answer

 

[nomadictheist]

Jesus dint say that , he said he did not come to "destroy the law". The word abolished is not in the Greek. Its a different word in THE bible. I don't know what bible you use.

"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does and teaches them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

 

[nomadictheist]

The verse does not say what you try to make it say. I showed many verses and i can show more that the covenant IS the ten commandments.

Trying to side track on strifes of words is not the answer

No you haven't. You've shown many verses that show that the ten commandments were part (a small part) of the old covenant. And you've continued to ignore Jesus' own teaching.

 

[LoveofTruth]

"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does and teaches them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Yes the Jews had to keep the whole law and the entire covenant, with all its particulars like tithing even, but for today tithing is no longer needed etc. The whole law was what they were bound up under. But the law was to show them their sin and need of the sacrifice. The law shows that they are guilty before God and that they have not walked in the love to God and man. Jesus sums up his words one time by saying "be prefect". As soon as a person tries to be perfect they fail, and in humility should them come to Jesus for forgiveness and life. Just like the rich young ruler. He thought he was a good man, but really he had broken every one of the commandments and by coverting. So Jesus uses the law and seeks to break him and show him that he is in sin. Then he would come to Jesus in the right way and follow Him not in mans strength but in the newness of life.

 

[nomadictheist]

It doesn't say "whichever Jew breaks...." it says "whoever breaks..."

Nice try.

 

[LoveofTruth]

No you haven't. You've shown many verses that show that the ten commandments were part (a small part) of the old covenant. And you've continued to ignore Jesus' own teaching.

No I showed verses that said they are the covenant, but you seem to just ignore them, because they shatter your entire view

"Exodus 34:27-28: "Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

Deuteronomy 9:9: "When I went up to the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant which the Lord had made with you"

1 Kings 8:9,21: V9 There was nothing in the ark except the two tablets of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, where the Lord made a covenant with the sons of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt." ... V21 "And there I have set a place for the ark, in which is the covenant of the Lord, which He made with our fathers when He brought them from the land of Egypt."

Deuteronomy 4:13: "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone."

 

[nomadictheist]

And you still haven't (nor will you) explained the many quotes from John, who says that if we know God we'll keep His commandments.

Puts the "commandments are null and void" position in quite a conundrum... a problem that the "old covenant that requires keeping the commandments for salvation is replaced by the new covenant in which obedience as children comes after salvation by grace alone" position doesn't have.

 

[LoveofTruth]

And you still haven't (nor will you) explained the many quotes from John, who says that if we know God we'll keep His commandments.

Puts the "commandments are null and void" position in quite a conundrum... a problem that the "old covenant that requires keeping the commandments for salvation is replaced by the new covenant in which obedience as children comes after salvation by grace alone" position doesn't have.

Jesus commandments are different than Moses commandments. This is a long study, I have to step out for now. I hopefully will get to this later, but The Commandments of Jesus must not be confused with the “Ten Commandments” in the Old Testament.

Jesus would say commands like, "love your enemies" etc and You must be born again

 

[Wordkeeper]

So the only command to keep is to confess that we are incapable of keeping the law? Well, that's a relief. Now I can go out and start killing people, having sex with whoever I want, taking other people's stuff if it's nicer than mine, practicing witchcraft, joining a coven, dishonoring my parents, keeping idols in my life, and all kinds of other stuff. Because, after all, I'm incapable of keeping the law. I confess.

Luke 18:13“But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”


Confessing worked for the tax collector, so it will work for you too. I encourage you to go ahead and confess. The Galatians received the Holy Spirit by hearing with faith, hearing with belief, belief that confessing lead to justification.


This is the requirement of the new covenant: hear the information of the Gospel and believe.


Confess that the ways of the world, serving self, are death and the ways of God, serving others, are life, and your spirit is rescued, is seated with Christ in high places, by the Holy Spirit.


Continue in confessing, that the deeds of the body are death, that the deeds of the death are present in your body, and God is merciful and forgives us, and the blood of His Son well cleanse us from those deeds, by the Holy Spirit.



Those who want to keep the law think they can keep the law as it needs to be kept. That's pride:


Luke 18:14“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”



Every covenant has payment by a purchaser, providing of goods or services by the seller, and a jurisdiction.


The purchaser was Israel, who agreed to obey all the law, the provision was protection, by God and the jurisdiction was until Christ came. In fact, Paul says Israel possessed oracles, she was supposed to proclaim the identity of the messiah by circumcision, the messiah would be a Jew, salvation was from the Jews! And the way that salvation would happen was that the Messiah would close the contract, by offering a perfect Lamb.


If you put yourself under law, you are saying that the contract is not closed, that the Lamb was not provided. Sinning like the Galatians:


Galatians 3:1You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?


Did Christ ask us to obey His commands? Sure. The command was to confess our sins to one another, so that God would cleanse them:


John 13:14And since I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed yourfeet, you ought to wash each other's feet.


This way the tree would be made good. Because to make the tree bear good fruit you must make the tree good.


Then the law to love God and our fellow men would be fulfilled. Because we would be offering an unblemished sacrifice, a living sacrifice, to God, an acceptable form of worship.


Confession is not a work, so I can't see any work in the view I have offered.


In the view you offered, I can see work. And although you say you are not observing the old covenant, you ARE observing its requirements, and you are abandoning the requirements of the new.


Christ is therefore of no benefit to you. In fact you are trampling the blood of Christ underfoot, staying that it has no value. Think about that.

 

[Hank77]

"If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Jesus commandments weren't different, he was showing them how they broke the commandments of God without actually committing a physical action (lust--->adultery, hatred--->murder, love of money---->idolatry, etc.).

I agree.
All of the ten commandments are taught in the NT, under the new covenant, except for the 7th day Sabbath.

The verse does not say what you try to make it say. I showed many verses and i can show more that the covenant IS the ten commandments.

While that is true, nine of the ten are repeated in the NT. They are eternal laws from the beginning to the end.
However, we are not under the covenant where they were written on stone. That covenant was abrogated.

 

[nomadictheist]

No I showed verses that said they are the covenant, but you seem to just ignore them, because they shatter your entire view

"Exodus 34:27-28: "Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

Deuteronomy 9:9: "When I went up to the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant which the Lord had made with you"

1 Kings 8:9,21: V9 There was nothing in the ark except the two tablets of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, where the Lord made a covenant with the sons of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt." ... V21 "And there I have set a place for the ark, in which is the covenant of the Lord, which He made with our fathers when He brought them from the land of Egypt."

Deuteronomy 4:13: "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone."

Nice theory, but God spells out the covenant directly before those verses that you take out of context:

'10And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all your people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which you are shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with you.11Observe you that which I command you this day: behold, I drive out before you the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.12Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you go, lest it be for a snare in the middle of you:13But you shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:14For you shall worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:15Lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice to their gods, and one call you, and you eat of his sacrifice;16And you take of their daughters to your sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make your sons go a whoring after their gods.17You shall make you no molten gods.18The feast of unleavened bread shall you keep. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib you came out from Egypt.19All that opens the matrix is mine; and every firstling among your cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.20But the firstling of an ass you shall redeem with a lamb: and if you redeem him not, then shall you break his neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.21Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest: in ripening time and in harvest you shall rest.22And you shall observe the feast of weeks, of the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.23Thrice in the year shall all your male children appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.24For I will cast out the nations before you, and enlarge your borders: neither shall any man desire your land, when you shall go up to appear before the LORD your God thrice in the year.25You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left to the morning.26The first of the first fruits of your land you shall bring to the house of the LORD your God. You shall not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.27And the LORD said to Moses, Write you these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.28And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote on the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."
It's worth noting that the word translated "commandments" here is elsewhere translated "words." There is nothing in the text to indicate this this refers back to the ten commandments given as part of the covenant before the first tablets were broken.

It's also important to note that this is a summary of the law and covenant written on the original tablets, spelled out in over 10 of the previous chapters.

 

[nomadictheist]

For anybody who wants to know, I'm not a 7th Day Adventist (nor am I of the KJV only party). However, I do believe that there is value in setting apart a day of the week to be devoted to the service of the Lord and not to our own interests/business. - or, as our Lord and Savior put it, to "do good on the Sabbath."

 

[nomadictheist]

Luke 18:13“But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”


Confessing worked for the tax collector, so it will work for you too. I encourage you to go ahead and confess. The Galatians received the Holy Spirit by hearing with faith, hearing with belief, belief that confessing lead to justification.


This is the requirement of the new covenant: hear the information of the Gospel and believe.


Confess that the ways of the world, serving self, are death and the ways of God, serving others, are life, and your spirit is rescued, is seated with Christ in high places, by the Holy Spirit.


Continue in confessing, that the deeds of the body are death, that the deeds of the death are present in your body, and God is merciful and forgives us, and the blood of His Son well cleanse us from those deeds, by the Holy Spirit.



Those who want to keep the law think they can keep the law as it needs to be kept. That's pride:


Luke 18:14“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”



Every covenant has payment by a purchaser, providing of goods or services by the seller, and a jurisdiction.


The purchaser was Israel, who agreed to obey all the law, the provision was protection, by God and the jurisdiction was until Christ came. In fact, Paul says Israel possessed oracles, she was supposed to proclaim the identity of the messiah by circumcision, the messiah would be a Jew, salvation was from the Jews! And the way that salvation would happen was that the Messiah would close the contract, by offering a perfect Lamb.


If you put yourself under law, you are saying that the contract is not closed, that the Lamb was not provided. Sinning like the Galatians:


Galatians 3:1You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?


Did Christ ask us to obey His commands? Sure. The command was to confess our sins to one another, so that God would cleanse them:


John 13:14And since I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed yourfeet, you ought to wash each other's feet.


This way the tree would be made good. Because to make the tree bear good fruit you must make the tree good.


Then the law to love God and our fellow men would be fulfilled. Because we would be offering an unblemished sacrifice, a living sacrifice, to God, an acceptable form of worship.


Confession is not a work, so I can't see any work in the view I have offered.


In the view you offered, I can see work. And although you say you are not observing the old covenant, you ARE observing its requirements, and you are abandoning the requirements of the new.


Christ is therefore of no benefit to you. In fact you are trampling the blood of Christ underfoot, staying that it has no value. Think about that.

As I've said time and again, I'm not putting anybody under the law.

Saying that the law of God remains as just, good, holy, and righteous as it was when He first commanded it is not putting myself (or anyone else) under the law.

Acknowledging that I cannot keep the law, but agreeing with God's command that we aim for perfection even though we'll never achieve it in this life, is likewise not putting myself back "under the law."

Declaring that the old covenant (that we must keep the law for salvation, sacrifice animals for our transgressions, and undergo purification rites) is replaced by the new covenant (that we are found righteous through faith in Jesus Christ, and by this given the power to obey God's holy, just, good, and righteous commandments, though we are no longer bound by them) is also not putting myself "back under the law."

But as Hebrews says, it is the covenant of the law and not the law itself with which fault was found.

 

[nomadictheist]

Confession is not a work, so I can't see any work in the view I have offered.

Funny, neither can I. And we both know that true faith produces good works.

Of course there is work in my view. The work comes after salvation, it doesn't lead up to it. There isn't just some magical change once we receive salvation where we're no longer tempted to sin. We have to work at it. Paul says we must "put to death" the deeds of the flesh. He says that he "buffets his body" to bring it into submission. That's hard work.

Is that what we trust in for salvation? No. But it is evidence of salvation. Just like Abraham's work of bringing Isaac to the altar was evidence of his faith. Faith without works is dead.

 

[Meowzltov]

as if the Zionists today represent "all Israel"

Zionists? As in anyone who supports Israel as a national homeland for Jews? Why would Zionists be considered Israel? You have tons of Zionists who are not Jewish.