[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] When should we change our reasoning / beliefs?

[Chriliman]

So the truth isn't out yet? But if you tell us why we're all here the truth will then be out, I presume. So please tell us why we are all here.

Yes the truth is out, the truth is Jesus Christ, it's just many people deny this truth, but all will someday submit to this truth, even if they don't believe it. I've done what I can to give sight to the blind and I'll continue doing so until I die or Jesus comes back.

 

[Davian]

Yes the truth is out, the truth is Jesus Christ, it's just many people deny this truth, but all will someday submit to this truth, even if they don't believe it.

I do not accept your religious opinion as truth.

I've done what I can to give sight to the blind

Do you find that only those that agree with you can "see"?

and I'll continue doing so until I die or Jesus comes back.

Didn't that happen already?

 

[Chriliman]

I do not accept your religious opinion as truth.

Do you find that only those that agree with you can "see"?

Didn't that happen already?

Right, if anyone tells you a date you can know they're wrong because the Bible clearly says no one but God the father knows the time or the hour. But if your alive when it happens, it will be unmistakable

 

[oi_antz]

Try reading it this way: "Please remember the scripture that says the [god] has blinded those who cannot see, and remain patient with them (holy), as [god] uses your words to break through that darkness."

How many gods are we talking about here?

I had two in mind when I said that.

How do you know you have the truth, and that you are not deceived about it?

Truth is consistent. It cannot be possessed though, only observed. I do not claim to have a complete view of the truth.

 

[oi_antz]

Case in point for what exactly?

A sloth? Cracks me up. In the past you have accused me of misrepresenting what you say and when I ask for clarification, you call me a sloth.

Can't say I am shocked though.

Go for it. I am not here to give you laughs. If you don't see the truth that is apparent, you should ask someone else to explain it whom you do trust enough.

 

[Davian]

I had two in mind when I said that.

Which two?

 

[Davian]

Right, if anyone tells you a date you can know they're wrong because the Bible clearly says no one but God the father knows the time or the hour.

Or, the bible writers were smart enough to leave out such an obvious means of falsifying a religion. Keep it vague, make no testable promises.

But if your alive when it happens, it will be unmistakable

Then again, the Jews don't think he was here the first time.

 

[oi_antz]

Which two?

The god of truth and a god that deceives.

 

[Crump]

Yes the truth is out, the truth is Jesus Christ, it's just many people deny this truth, but all will someday submit to this truth, even if they don't believe it. I've done what I can to give sight to the blind and I'll continue doing so until I die or Jesus comes back.

And you say that's 'the reason we're here'? But other Christians would say we're here because we've falling from grace, and that was Satan's doing, not our Lord's.

So, even among Christians, beliefs are divergent. Yet you insist that your truth is the only truth. When two beliefs conflict only one can be the truth, unless neither are true.

It's fine for you to believe that what you say is the truth; no-one can reasonably criticize you for that. But stating that you know it to be the truth is no different to stating that you know the mind of God. You will have to be much more persuasive than you have been so far in this thread if you want people to believe that.

You are confusing knowledge and belief. Others can see that clearly, even if you cannot.

 

[Davian]

The god of truth and a god that deceives.

Lol. And just a few posts back you said that you're not here to give out laughs.

 

[oi_antz]

Lol. And just a few posts back you said that you're not here to give out laughs.

I do not know what is going on in your imagination, but it does seem entertaining. I am glad you are happy

 

[florida2]

So its reasonable to expect that in time we will find out if there are extraterrestrial aliens within the universe somewhere, right? But if we scan thousands upon thousands of inhabitable planets and find no life at all, what would you begin to think then?

If this happened it would only confirm my belief that God has created us humans for a specific reason and that God wants us to know He exists, therefore, it would become reasonable to believe that in time He would show Himself to all people alive and dead.

On one hand you say "aliens could very well exist because the probabilities are overwhelming" (paraphrasing), yet we see no aliens anywhere, then on the other hand you say "God is unknowable", yet God is possible and if He does exists, its reasonable to believe He will reveal Himself because it makes sense that He would. This is the reasoning that I base my thinking that your agnostic view is unreasonable.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, don't ever think you should be ignored

Scientists have looked at an incredibly small fraction of planets - only perhaps a few thousand - in our own galaxy. There are probably billions of planets just our our galaxy among the billions of galaxies in the universe. I think saying 'we see no aliens anywhere' is rather jumping the gun. There may be life on some planets we look at, but it isn't intelligent and therefore can't communicate. On the other extreme, aliens could be thousands or millions of years more advanced than us and therefore not be bothered about talking to us, like you wouldn't go up to an anthill and start chatting and giving them gifts.

We may yet find some basic life in our own solar system, perhaps on Europa which has a liquid water ocean under an icy outer surface. I think we'd have to be incredibly arrogant as a species to think we are anything special in the universe.

 

[paulm50]

Yes the truth is out, the truth is Jesus Christ, it's just many people deny this truth, but all will someday submit to this truth, even if they don't believe it. I've done what I can to give sight to the blind and I'll continue doing so until I die or Jesus comes back.

My problem with that is. If Jesus was sent here to save us all. Why did he say “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel”. Why was he in a minor outpost of the Roman Empire, only preached to Jews and said he was not here to abolish the old laws?

Also if your god is the only true god, why do so few think he exists, why does he remain hidden, why does he try to confuse us with his messages, which only leads to mass killings?

If put 100s of mice into a big box and deprived them of food, they would end up killing each other so a few survived. Would that make me evil?

I'm sure you see the link, between that and gods watching billions kill each other because of their insistence to confuse us.

 

[Crump]

Scientists have looked at an incredibly small fraction of planets - only perhaps a few thousand - in our own galaxy. There are probably billions of planets just our our galaxy among the billions of galaxies in the universe. I think saying 'we see no aliens anywhere' is rather jumping the gun. There may be life on some planets we look at, but it isn't intelligent and therefore can't communicate. On the other extreme, aliens could be thousands or millions of years more advanced than us and therefore not be bothered about talking to us, like you wouldn't go up to an anthill and start chatting and giving them gifts.

We may yet find some basic life in our own solar system, perhaps on Europa which has a liquid water ocean under an icy outer surface. I think we'd have to be incredibly arrogant as a species to think we are anything special in the universe.

I believe that, while we may be arrogant in many ways, (just look at what we are doing to the environment, and to other creatures on this planet) mankind has a great yearning to discover that we are not alone in the universe. Much of our science fiction expresses this yearning.

 

[paulm50]

Scientists have looked at an incredibly small fraction of planets - only perhaps a few thousand - in our own galaxy. There are probably billions of planets just our our galaxy among the billions of galaxies in the universe. I think saying 'we see no aliens anywhere' is rather jumping the gun. There may be life on some planets we look at, but it isn't intelligent and therefore can't communicate. On the other extreme, aliens could be thousands or millions of years more advanced than us and therefore not be bothered about talking to us, like you wouldn't go up to an anthill and start chatting and giving them gifts.

We may yet find some basic life in our own solar system, perhaps on Europa which has a liquid water ocean under an icy outer surface. I think we'd have to be incredibly arrogant as a species to think we are anything special in the universe.

In the timeline of the Earth, our ability to speak to people not within earshot is a micro second. And who knows how long we will last on Earth. Expecting to get a call from Aliens, is as likely as you or me getting one from Barrack Obama. LOL

 

[Chriliman]

And you say that's 'the reason we're here'? But other Christians would say we're here because we've falling from grace, and that was Satan's doing, not our Lord's.

So, even among Christians, beliefs are divergent. Yet you insist that your truth is the only truth. When two beliefs conflict only one can be the truth, unless neither are true.

It's fine for you to believe that what you say is the truth; no-one can reasonably criticize you for that. But stating that you know it to be the truth is no different to stating that you know the mind of God. You will have to be much more persuasive than you have been so far in this thread if you want people to believe that.

You are confusing knowledge and belief. Others can see that clearly, even if you cannot.

One has to first gain knowledge of God and then decide to believe in God and then God will begin to reveal himself to them in only the way God can and then this person will be given strong faith and understanding through the power of Jesus Christ and be able know the truth because they've submited to the truth.

God has made it clear to me and many others that all creation is because of Jesus and all authority in heaven and earth has been given to Jesus. So yes I know the truth, but I first had to be taught then I had to believe and now God lets me know and understand.

I respect your opinion, so please tell me again how you think I'm confusing knowledge and belief?

 

[KCfromNC]

If someone is claiming truth, I simply question them honestly and the real truth will come out eventually, simply because truth is not restricted to any man, truth is infinite and timeless, therefore, no man can control or alter it, it will eventually come out, guaranteed!

And that's what is happening here. You're claiming to have truth, people are honestly questioning if you can demonstrate that you actually do have this truth, and you can't. The obvious conclusion is that you're confusing truth with a guess or a feeling you have about something or another.

 

[KCfromNC]

The god of truth and a god that deceives.

Odin and Loki, represent!

 

[KCfromNC]

One has to first gain knowledge of God and then decide to believe in God and then God will begin to reveal himself to them

This seems backwards to me. How are we supposed to gain knowledge of an unrevealed, intentionally hidden god in the first place?

 

[Crump]

One has to first gain knowledge of God and then decide to believe in God . . . please tell me again how you think I'm confusing knowledge and belief?

It's right there. If you have knowledge of God then belief in God is an irrelevance. Belief of an idea and knowledge of that idea as a fact are mutually exclusive concepts.