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The ten commandments Old covenant, and the law "done away" and "abolished" as paul said

Meowzltov

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Nope. They simply were learning what it now meant to be new covenant Christians separate and distinct from the religion of Judaism.
The practice of Jewish Christians observing Torah didn't die out until after the Council of Nicea. You clearly are interpreting scripture incorrectly.
 
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Meowzltov

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The Ten Commandments are the foundation of righteousness altogether- they are the pillars of integrity, and not only are they distinct from the Law, they are higher then the Law. They are ~eternal~
So, it's okay to be gay, since that's not in the ten?
 
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Crowns&Laurels

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So, it's okay to be gay, since that's not in the ten?

Paul speaks against homosexuality, but even more, they all teach harmoniously in regard to the Commandments.
And it's not black and white, there are in fact things outside the explicit Commandments which are sinful.
 
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BobRyan

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The Ten Commandments are the foundation of righteousness altogether- they are the pillars of integrity, and not only are they distinct from the Law, they are higher then the Law. They are ~eternal~

The Ten Commandments kept inside the ark of the covenant - all others kept outside. The TEN Commandments called the TEN Commandments - not the zillion and one commandments.

And yet the moral law of God not only includes the TEN Commandments - it also includes Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
 
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BobRyan

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The council argues that all Christians - Jews and Gentiles are hearing Moses read every Sabbath in the Synagogues.

In Acts 13, 17, 18 we see that very thing happening - BOTH Jews AND gentiles in the synagogues every Sabbath.


It's strange that sin is the central problem for all the saints, but they express no desire for relief. Abraham wants an heir, Isaac a wide and Jacob protection from Esau. God always emphasizes how they will be blessings to the world. God and the saints seem to talk past each other!

However, the first covenant that God makes with Israel is called Law. In agreements, contracts, covenants, treaties, the beneficiaries receive products or services in return for meeting the requirements of their side of the agreement. The benefit is normally the name of the agreement: this peace treaties, rent agreements, etc. You lay down your arms, you get peace. Youse pays your rent, you get a house on hire.

Christ said "Abraham saw my day and was glad" John 8.
Paul said 'the Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:7
Paul said in 1Cor 10 that they "all drank from the same Spiritual Rock and that Rock was Christ"
Paul said in Heb 4:1 "The GOSPEL was preached to US just as it was to THEM also"
The NEW Covenant is in the OLD Testament - Jer 31:31-33
Romans 4 - Abraham is the father of all those who believe God
Heb 11 Noah pursued "Righteousness which is by faith"
Heb 11 - OT saints like Enoch and Elijah - taken directly to heaven without dying

In the case of Sinai, the benefit is the protection of the law. The law is a guardian until Christ was sent.

No text says that.


2 Salvation in the covenant of law was by believing God, saying his law was good, by doing his law. Faith, high fidelity (hi-fi!) led to protection by the law. The doers of the law were found righteous, justified. Notice I said doers, not those meeting its righteous requirements, because no one was righteous, not even one.

Faith in the coming Messiah - the Lamb of God, the sin offering pointing to Christ (Messiah).

"Christ our Passover has been sacrificed" 1Cor 5

Rom 2 "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW Will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"


See, the Gentiles were justified, because their consciences convicted them of their sin and they were broken and God lifted them up.

As we see with all the Jews listed in Heb 11

Israel was puffed up because she possessed the law, she was not convicted and remained unjustified. Possessing the law was a hindrance, a stumbling block!

Romans 2:13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

True -

Rom 2
. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.


Summary
The benefit of the old covenant of law was the protection of the law, obtained by believing God through His statement of his requirements at Sinai for Israel and believing their conscience for Gentiles. Yes if the Gentile met the requirements of the law, FAITH, BELIEF, would God not treat them as if they possessed the law and were under covenant? You betcha!

Romans 2 is under the "Gospel" the New Covenant.

No NT text says anyone is saved under the Old Covenant. All are lost under it - it is the "Covenant of death" 2Cor 3.

All the Gospel preached in the OT - was the NEW covenant Gospel.

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel.

Gal 3:7 - the Gospel was preached to Abraham.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Meowzltov

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And it's not black and white, there are in fact things outside the explicit Commandments which are sinful.
So it's not just the ten. That opens the question, if it's not just the ten, and it's not all 613, how do you know which ones it is?
 
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Wordkeeper

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No text says that.

NETBibleGalatians 3:22Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith.

The Greek word "pedagogos" should not have been translated "schoolmaster" as did the KJV. It is a word to describe an adult who accompanies a child to school; he is NOT a teacher.

Today we would say, "Therefore the law had become a school bus, carrying us safely until we reached Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith.

Romans 2 is under the "Gospel" the New Covenant.

No NT text says anyone is saved under the Old Covenant. All are lost under it - it is the "Covenant of death" 2Cor 3.

All the Gospel preached in the OT - was the NEW covenant Gospel.

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel.

Gal 3:7 - the Gospel was preached to Abraham.

in Christ,

Bob

Lazarus was saved, in Abraham's bosom. When Christ came and preached to those in the grave, they were released. The rich man who was not merciful was already in hell, with no option to be released.

However, Lazarus had no option to be a blessing to the world, share in Christ's work.

That's why the least in the kingdom of God is greater than John the Baptist, who was the greatest ever born of a woman.
[/COLOR]
 
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Steeno7

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The practice of Jewish Christians observing Torah didn't die out until after the Council of Nicea. You clearly are interpreting scripture incorrectly.

Keep reading. In the Epistles, we see God's people, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, as the church, meeting and worshipping outside the temple and apart from the Mosaic Law.
 
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bugkiller

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The Ten Commandments are the foundation of righteousness altogether- they are the pillars of integrity, and not only are they distinct from the Law, they are higher then the Law. They are ~eternal~
No because Paul calls the 10 Cs the law in Romans 7.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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The Ten Commandments kept inside the ark of the covenant - all others kept outside. The TEN Commandments called the TEN Commandments - not the zillion and one commandments.

And yet the moral law of God not only includes the TEN Commandments - it also includes Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
And so what is your point?

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Christ said "Abraham saw my day and was glad" John 8.
Paul said 'the Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:7
Paul said in 1Cor 10 that they "all drank from the same Spiritual Rock and that Rock was Christ"
Paul said in Heb 4:1 "The GOSPEL was preached to US just as it was to THEM also"
The NEW Covenant is in the OLD Testament - Jer 31:31-33
Romans 4 - Abraham is the father of all those who believe God
Heb 11 Noah pursued "Righteousness which is by faith"
Heb 11 - OT saints like Enoch and Elijah - taken directly to heaven without dying



No text says that.




Faith in the coming Messiah - the Lamb of God, the sin offering pointing to Christ (Messiah).

"Christ our Passover has been sacrificed" 1Cor 5

Rom 2 "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW Will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"




As we see with all the Jews listed in Heb 11



True -

Rom 2
. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.




Romans 2 is under the "Gospel" the New Covenant.

No NT text says anyone is saved under the Old Covenant. All are lost under it - it is the "Covenant of death" 2Cor 3.

All the Gospel preached in the OT - was the NEW covenant Gospel.

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel.

Gal 3:7 - the Gospel was preached to Abraham.

in Christ,

Bob
The Gospel isn't the law aka the 10 Cs because Moses says explicitly the 10 Cs weren't given to Abraham one of their fathers. Deut 5:3

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Find me a specific verse or two in Acts 15 where it says Jewish believers are to no longer keep the Law as they had been doing. Just one verse where it shows that change.
Were any Jews part of the church in Antioch? Where does the Bible say Jews are still required to keep the law? I read they are delivered from the law in Rom 7 and there is not Jew in Christ Jesus in Gal 3.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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The council argues that all Christians - Jews and Gentiles are hearing Moses read every Sabbath in the Synagogues.

In Acts 13, 17, 18 we see that very thing happening - BOTH Jews AND gentiles in the synagogues every Sabbath.
What is your point? Nothing in your post shows a requirement to keep the law.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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not analogous
The council is a council, the equivilent of a court proceeding with verdicts. You have to make your case. If you can't , then you can't.
Your argument from silence in Acts 15 isn't valid in light of other passages such as Rom 7:6. Why was Peter called for living like a Gentile, then severing himself when the delegation from Jerusalem arrived?

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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There is not one single mention in any of those letters of trashing the Ten Commandments - rather we have "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

And then of course there is 1John 5:1-4 - the ultimate statement on that point outside of Acts and the Gospels.

Worship "outside the temple" was what "every Jew" was doing that lived outside of Jerusalem.

Worship "without a synagogue" was what every Jew was doing if they did not have a quorum of ten men - the minimum for establishing a synagogue.

And in the few cases in the NT where Christians are expelled from the Synagogues it is BOTH gentiles AND Jews that leave with them.
Where does Acts 15 mention the requirement to keep the 10 Cs?

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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No, Bob proved his point. You are both correct. Early believers met both places: synagogues for the teaching of the law, and homes for the breaking of the bread and teaching of the gospel.
Christians didn't attend the synagogue for the purpose of being taught the 10 Cs.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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I think you are more interested in what it means when he says, "been released from the law." You and I are never going to agree on what this means.
You're avoiding my point. Please respond to my question about who "we" includes.

bugkiller
 
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