Once Saved Always Saved: Fact or Fiction?

[Light of the East]

Okay, so I'll ask again....At what point are you not Christian enough, or not following Jesus enough, that you can lose your salvation? Are there any verses in the bible that tell us where we need to be at to retain our salvation?

Furthermore, if there isn't a way to "measure" how saved we are in the Bible from day to day, don't you think that is an incredibly cruel thing for God to do to his children?

Giving us free will to either accept or reject His offer? I'd say being a robot would be the cruel thing.

 

[Light of the East]

LOL.......you have no idea how funny reading your empty charge is to the ears of a protestant . Hail mary

but nope....not just one verse. but I can see why you would wave your hand at it since it is unambiguous

A one verse reply is exactly what cults do. Why don't you and I discuss the entire Bible and not just your favorite verse taken out of context of the whole? My points are made based on the fact that the Bible is a book of covenant.

 

[Light of the East]

[QUOTE="Light of the East, post: 68334141, member: 336257"]

(Wait a minute! You're Catholic and you're arguing with me?????)[/QUOTE]

Orthodox, actually.

The only thing I don't agree on is about the righteous belonging at the judgment. They're there because it is at the judgment that Christ will pronounce their reward. (Ro 2) The wicked get the wages of sin. (A SECOND death! Oi veh!) And the righteous inherit the Kingdom prepared for them.

That reward will NOT be based on saying a sincere "sinner's prayer" one time but, on a life striving to please the Lord. (Actually imitating the Lord in His mercy. Imitation being the highest form of praise.)[/QUOTE]

Whoooops! Sorry, Father! Didn't mean to insult you! I've been Eastern Catholic for 15 years and we love the Orthodox, especially the priests! God Bless!

 

[Light of the East]

The condition of IF must be met which IF we continue in the faith and are not turned away from the hope of the Gospel.

It's about understanding what faith is.

Faith is the substance...of the thing you are HOPING FOR.

It's the evidence of things NOT SEEN.

Obtaining the reality of salvation, it what we are hoping for.

Paul explains -

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
Romans 8:24-25

Hope that is seen:
which means that which is realized,obtained,manifested...

Now we have faith for salvation, which is eternal life the redemption of our body, the resurrection from the dead.

We will have literaly obtained the reality of what we now have faith for... When we are resurrected from the dead and hear these words from Jesus Christ...

Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:34

If you have faith for salvation, then you are still hoping for salvation.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for...

Hope that is seen is not hope, for why does one hope for what is seen, what is literally obtained.

That's why Peter teaches us -

Receiving the END of your faith, the salvation of your soul. 1 Peter 1:9

Faith has come to an end when you actually receive the thing you are hoping for.

JLB

Nicely done, sir, especially the quote which shows that eternal life is an inheritance and not a juridical guarantee. Ephesians 1:13-14 also states the same thing. We have the Holy Spirit as the "earnest" of our salvation. An "earnest" is a deposit which guarantees the rest of the sum IF - IF IF IF IF - we keep the promises we agreed to.

This is why in entering the Church, there is a ceremony in which promises are made. These are covenant promises which must be kept - turning from evil, doing good, following Christ, eschewing the devil. And like all relationships - which is what a covenant is, a love relationship with the divine Bridegroom - one can decide to pack up and leave the house.

 

[Albion]

I said this:
"Because we are held by God (Jn 10:28), which is also by grace, we don't earn losing it by anything we do."

Neither. Jn 10:28 is about who is holding on to whom. God holds onto His children, obviously. It has nothing to do with conditions, per your questions.

Correct. All saved people have been given to Him. Eternal security.


My conclusions are based on the Bible. Jesus SAID that some will "believe for a while and in time of temptation, fall away". Lu 8:13. Ceasing to believe is no different that renouncing belief.

So I AM free to conclude what the Bible teaches.

So, it's just a case of misunderstanding what the Bible teaches. OK, that's been my point all along.

 

[Tellastory]

Maybe the question isn't about if once saved is always saved is fact or fiction, but if Jesus Christ is really the Saviour or not? According to His word, it would be a false witness to go around telling people that Jesus Christ is your Saviour if you could lose your salvation.

I do not believe the Bible justifies saying that Jesus Christ "might" be our Saviour, because then, where is the Good News? So obviously, believers are saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

But there is a race to be run and it is not for salvation, but for the eternal glory that comes with our salvation ( 2 Timothy 2:10-13 & 19-21 ) and that is to be received as a vessel unto honour in His House to attend the Marriage Supper at the pre trib rapture event when God will judge His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) in excommunicating any abiding in iniquity still ( 1 Corinthians 5th chapter ). So now is the time to go before that throne of grace and ask Jesus for help ( Hebrews 4:12-16 ) , trusting Him as our Good Shepherd to help us abide in Him & His words ( John 15:1-7 ) as kept in the KJV Bible ( John 14:23-24 )& John 15:20 ) as we can only run that race by faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us: 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 & Hebrews 12:1-29 Galatians 2:19-3:3 & Galatians 5:1,5 & Philippians 1:6-11 & 2 Timothy 4:18 & 1 John 3:3 & Jude 1:24-25

 

[Philip C]

The way I see it is that there are a lot of Scriptures that could be used to argue the case either way. But if you never put yourself in the position where you need to find out then it's a purely academic.

 

[Tellastory]

Nicely done, sir, especially the quote which shows that eternal life is an inheritance and not a juridical guarantee. Ephesians 1:13-14 also states the same thing. We have the Holy Spirit as the "earnest" of our salvation. An "earnest" is a deposit which guarantees the rest of the sum IF - IF IF IF IF - we keep the promises we agreed to.

This is why in entering the Church, there is a ceremony in which promises are made. These are covenant promises which must be kept - turning from evil, doing good, following Christ, eschewing the devil. And like all relationships - which is what a covenant is, a love relationship with the divine Bridegroom - one can decide to pack up and leave the house.

The prodigal son may give up his first inheritance for wild living, but he is still son even though that first inheritance can never be taken back to have again. That is the difference between the elder & loyal son in the field and the prodigal son as the Father told the loyal son that all that he has was his, which is significant because it is not the same for the prodigal son.

In 2 Timothy 2:18-21, there are two kinds of vessels in His House that are actually IN His House and there are vessels unto honour & vessels unto dishonour IN His House. Do note that the call to depart from iniquity is given to even former believers so that by His grace & by His help, purging themselves of the iniquity of unbelief, or works that deny Him, be it religious works or carnal sin, they may be received as vessels unto honour in His House.

So that means the castaways ( 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 ), the reprobates, ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) & those cut off for not abiding in Him & His words as kept in the KJV as His disciples ( John 15:1-8 ) will be left behind for not being kept ready by Him ( Luke 12:40-49 ) but do note that they are still called His servants as they are receiving their stripes.

So what signify a vessel unto dishonour is being denied entrance to the Marriage Supper to be received later on after the great tribulation when they shall be vessels of earth & wood; having a glorified terrestriel inheritance to reign as kings and priests spread out all over the world for the milleniel reign of Christ whereas the vessels unto honour in His House are residents in the city of God that comes down from Heaven to declare the wonderful works of God within the city for all the visitors during the milleniel reign.

So like Esau weeping for giving up his birthright for a meal, so will those left behind will be as weeping & gnashing of teeth for why God has to perform a miracle in getting them past that loss of that eternal glory of being that vessel unto honour in His House by wiping the tears from their eyes so that they may accept their damnation as vessels unto dishonour in His House testifying to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe, even in His name; yea, even former believers.

So while the door to the Marriage Supper is still open, may every believer & former believer heed the call to go before that throne of grace for help & answers to be found abiding in Him so that by His grace & by His help, they may be received as vessels unto honour in His House to His glory because the Bridegroom is coming soon for the abiding bride of Christ.

 

[JLB777]

Maybe the question isn't about if once saved is always saved is fact or fiction, but if Jesus Christ is really the Saviour or not? According to His word, it would be a false witness to go around telling people that Jesus Christ is your Saviour if you could lose your salvation.

I do not believe the Bible justifies saying that Jesus Christ "might" be our Saviour, because then, where is the Good News? So obviously, believers are saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

But there is a race to be run and it is not for salvation, but for the eternal glory that comes with our salvation ( 2 Timothy 2:10-13 & 19-21 ) and that is to be received as a vessel unto honour in His House to attend the Marriage Supper at the pre trib rapture event when God will judge His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) in excommunicating any abiding in iniquity still ( 1 Corinthians 5th chapter ). So now is the time to go before that throne of grace and ask Jesus for help ( Hebrews 4:12-16 ) , trusting Him as our Good Shepherd to help us abide in Him & His words ( John 15:1-7 ) as kept in the KJV Bible ( John 14:23-24 )& John 15:20 ) as we can only run that race by faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us: 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 & Hebrews 12:1-29 Galatians 2:19-3:3 & Galatians 5:1,5 & Philippians 1:6-11 & 2 Timothy 4:18 & 1 John 3:3 & Jude 1:24-25

5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward,
6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.'
11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' "
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:5-14


JLB

 

[Jan001]

I've been studying this question for a few months now. I was raised to think you could loose your salvation, but then I always thought that you weren't truly saved in the first place.
Jesus said "many will come to me on that day and say lord, lord.........." Jesus replies by saying "I never knew you". He doesn't say I knew before but not now. He clearly said " I NEVER knew you"

After a person dies, Jesus will say He never knew him if he fell away and did not repent before his death. In the following, live and die pertain to spiritual life, not physical life.

Ezekiel 33:12-20
12 “Therefore you, O son of man, say to the children of your people: ‘The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness; nor shall the righteous be able to live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins.’ 13 When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. 14 Again, when I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, 15 if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16 None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered against him; he has done what is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
17 “Yet the children of your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ But it is their way which is not fair! 18 When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he shall die because of it. 19 But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it. 20 Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, I will judge every one of you according to his own ways.”

God knows the persons who are His own and this is because His Holy Spirit of Grace lives within them. If a once-saved person falls away from the faith through disobedience to God's commandments, the Holy Spirit will not remain living within him. The Holy Spirit is given only to the persons who obey God. The Holy Spirit remains only with the persons who continue to obey Him.

Acts 5:32
And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” NKJV

1 Peter 1:22
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, NKJV

If a Christian person dies unrepentant, God will then say He never knew him. After a person's death, God will only acknowledge him as His own child if he has the Holy Spirit living within him. All persons who do not have the Holy Spirit living within them have the devil as their father.

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. NKJV

Heaven or hell: Follow/obey Jesus and be approved to inherit heaven or else follow/obey Satan, the world, or the flesh and condemn yourself to hell.

Romans 6:16
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

 

[JLB777]

This is faulty logic. The Bible specifically notes that people can reject God. But the Bible NEVER notes that one can lose their salvation. In fact, just the opposite; eternal life, a gift of God, is irrevocable. Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:29

Eternal life is not mentioned in this verse.

The calling to salvation continues to be available to those who do not believe, however they must believe in order to be "grafted back in".

Your view suggests that they can not be broken off in the first place, which grossly violated the context.

The very point of teaching that the gifts and calling are irrevocable, is to assure that the "broken off" natural branched can be grafted back in, indicating their covenant relationship has been severed.

This same Paul who warned the Gentiles of being broken off from the supporting root, has also said the calling to repentance continues to be available and is irrevocable.


JLB

 

[MikeEnders]

The condition of IF must be met which IF we continue in the faith and are not turned away from the hope of the Gospel.

you are lecturing and pontificating not dealing with the text. The perfect tense in the greek means a completed past action that has lasting consequence. Look it up. We are not saved sometime in the future if we continue but we cotinue fi we have been truly saved. Thats EXACTLY what that passage states in the original greek .

 

[Jan001]

Before the foundation of the world, God knew which of the people He would later create would remain faithful until they died. Revelation 2:10

Only these few faithful-until-death persons did He place into His hand. The persons who He knew would only believe/obey for a while He did not place into His hand.

Hebrews 4:3
For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. NKJV

God knew every single work of every single person for his whole life before He created him. God knew before the foundation of the world which people would inherit eternal life and which people would not. He placed into His hand only those people who He foreknew would remain faithful until they died.

1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.....NKJV

Matthew 25:34
Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: NKJV

Luke 8:13
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. NKJV

A person cannot fall away from Jesus unless he first believed in Jesus. Belief cannot be separated from obedience. Disobedience is the same as unbelief.

Hebrews 3:12
Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; NKJV

Hebrews 3:18-19
And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. NKJV

 

[MikeEnders]

Well, Jesus specifically noted those who 'believe for a while, and in time of temptation, fell away', so position 3 is refuted by Jesus Himself.

He refuted no such thing. You saying he did doesn't substitute for what the Lord said. The term fall away was a greek word used by saved and unsaved people (common language of the roman empire) you can fall away from anything even a previous weak belief and thats exactly what the parable teaches. testing time and fruit shows who has root and who doesn't

Paul was asking a rhetorical question. Of course it's possible to live therein. In fact, he said as much in Rom 6:16. We CHOOSE to whom we obey; whether as slaves to sin, or slave of righteousness.

Nonsense. the entire passage of romans 6 and 7 is that Christ came to rescue us from a life of sin not just give us a pass ticket for heaven. I john makes it abundantly clear a believer cannot continue to live the same old life of sin and be a believer. the problem with the we can do anything and still be considered really saved is that you redefine salvation from what the Bible teaches and that is that Christ died to free us from sin right here and right now.

OSAS does NOT have to teach that you can do anything and be a believer on your way to heaven , Its that you won't continue to live in unrepentant sin if you really are saved.

 

[MikeEnders]

14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:5-14

The truly incredible thing is that you insist on using that verse but refuse to deal with what the passage states in the original greek - "have become" is perfect tense and PROVES you are misusing the passage and stating what it does not say in the original. The proof that we past perfect tense have been saved is that we continue thats where the if comes in. if we don't then in the past perfect tense we did no become a partaker.

stop trying to ignore the meaning of a past perfect greek tense. Ignoring it is not rightfully dividing God's word.

 

[greened67]

I don't understand the continued back and forth of this. It sounds like one is trying to justify working for salvation.

 

[JESUSKiDtommy]

Giving us free will to either accept or reject His offer? I'd say being a robot would be the cruel thing.

I am pretty sure the whole point is that we don't have any business making GODS judgements for HIM.... the lines of who goes where belong to HIM and it defies common sense for any human to think HE needs us or wants us to be drawing the line of who goes where.... we are only called to live and be what HE wants us to be through hearts of humbleness to HIM.

 

[MikeEnders]

A one verse reply is exactly what cults do. Why don't you and I discuss the entire Bible and not just your favorite verse taken out of context of the whole? My points are made based on the fact that the Bible is a book of covenant.

I have provided multiple passages (which I note you have buried your head in the sand to avoid) and will discuss the entire bible anytime but what I won't abide is someone identifying with a religion that prays to someone besides God and Christ calling ME cultic. Thats just too much of a laugher.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Is there any verses in the NT about losing the Holy Spirit? No, there are not. And Jesus said that no one ( meaning no person, which would include even the believer, who is a person) can snatch a believer from God's hand.

Right. We're marked for what? The day of redemption. And the seal is a pledge or PROMISE.

We're not talking about physical seals, either those of the ancient world, or by today's standard. God has sealed those who believe with the Holy Spirit as a mark for the day of redemption. This is a promise of redemption. This is eternal security.

No one has yet proven this theory from Scripture. Salvation includes regeneration, being born again, being a new creature. How does that all just go away? It doesn't.

Yes, because they are different.
The false assumption that one is only saved if one continues to have faith is not taught in Scripture.

Further, Paul clearly defined what he meant by 'gift' in Romans: 5:15-17 is the gift of justification. 6:23 is the gift of eternal life. The VERY NEXT time Paul mentioned God's gifts is 11:29 where he said that God's gifts are irrevocable.

It is not sane or rational to exlude eternal life from 11:29, esp since Paul specifically defined eternal life as a gift of God previously.

btw, Paul never mentioned the "gift of faith" in Romans. So that is not in context. At all.

Please back up this theory with Scripture.

A seal can be broken.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," (Eph 1:13)

Paul's is using an analogy of a "sealed document" back then. When you sealed a document, you sealed it with wax and it was sealed until it was delivered to the proper recipient. Paul was using an analogy of an inheritance in a legal will, which would have been properly witnessed and sealed by a representative of the Roman government.
When a document like this is received, the first thing that is observed is whether or not the seal is intact. If the seal was broken then the representative would know that some tampering occurred and the document would be considered void and the inheritance denied.

This is Paul's analogy. We must protect our covenant with God and not seek to break the seal of the Holy Spirit. A GREAT Official (Holy Spirit) seals the document but a common citizen (Believer) may break the seal.

Was it possible for a Roman citizen to break the wax seal? Of course it was. This is also true of one who breaks the seal of the Holy Spirit. That is why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only sin that cannot be forgiven. If you look at various verses that speak of falling away, you will see that this sin against the Holy Spirit is linked to Apostasy.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:4-6)

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Heb 10:29)

This is why Paul warned us not to tamper with our seal.

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Eph 4:30)

This is a big problem with Christendom, today. A false security is being preached. Once sealed, always sealed. The Word of God does not agree nor support that. Remember, these letters are written to Followers of Christ. The Early Church did not believe OSAS.

Here are some examples:
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. (1 Tim 1:19-20)

Paul warned Timothy to guard his faith. He stated clearly that some had abandoned their faith and shipwrecked. Then he named two acquaintances, Hymenaeus and Alexander, who became apostates by blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Did you know that the Word of God says that our faith can be overthrown?

"But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some." (2 Tim 2:16-18)

Hymenaeus was not content to make shipwreck of his own faith. Now, we find him teaching false doctrine [eschatology] and thereby overthrowing the faith of others. Sounds like he was teaching Preterism.

"For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; ..." (2 Tim 4:10)

Paul warned Timothy extensively about the lure of materialism. Apparently, many believers had quit and become entangled in the lust for money.

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after,they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." (1 Tim 6:10)

This brings to mind the parable of the Sower. Remember, some fell among "thorns." Jesus said the "thorns" were the cares of this world and the love of money, which after the seed has sprouted, and begun to grow, they choke the Word, and the plant dies.

These examples of Christians who's faith failed because of a love of money or power demonstrate thatthe warnings in Scripture about falling away are real.

Here is a conditional promise. Can you tell me what the condition is?
"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Rom 11:20-22)

That little word "IF", makes a big difference, doesn't it?

Can you point out the condition in this verse?
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, IFye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain." (1 Cor 15:1-2)

There's that pesky little word "IF", again.
(Looks like their salvation is linked to perseverance. Kind of like, "he that endures to the end will be saved. Matt 24).

"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Col 1:21-23)

Again, we find this in the Scriptures. Another conditional statement. That little word "IF" messes things up again!!

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" (Heb 3:12-14)

"IF", once again. There are many of these in the Scriptures. You may want to look them up.

So, I don't know how you explain Scriptures like these away. I'm sure there is an "explanation" somewhere. But it looks like UNBELIEF will surely ruin us. It is after all, the opposite of FAITH. But what this passage reveals, is that it can happen to a Believer. A hard heart leads to unbelief and unbelief leads to departing from God.

We will be made partakers with Christ IF we hold our initial confidence [or faith] until the end.

"Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape,if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;" (Heb 2:1-3)

I'm really surprised that people do not see these conditional statements in the Scriptures. But, I think the man-made doctrines have blinded them and made these scriptures of "no effect". Commandments and traditions of men have captured people's hearts so that they have become idols in their hearts and they are no longer open to truth.

"Neglect" is treating something that is precious, casually. It is carelessness. Unfortunately, this is the state of many Christians today. Yet, they think they are in no danger. That is because a false Gospel of false security is being preached and the reason why you cannot tell the difference between the world and the church, today.

"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;(Who are the brethren that James is talking to?)
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (James 5:19-20)

The only death that does not hide a multitude of sins is eternal death, not physical death. Because after physical death, we will all be judged.

Of course people think up all manner of explanations why people fall away. The main one is that they were never saved to begin with. That does not cohere with the preponderance of scriptures. What I have outlined for you does agree with the preponderance of Scripture and experience. Too many of us have known truly born-again people who have departed from the faith. If your man-made doctrine says that cannot happen, then it is convenient to say, "they were never born-again".

 

[JESUSKiDtommy]

I have provided multiple passages (which I note you have buried your head in the sand to avoid) and will discuss the entire bible anytime but what I won't abide is someone identifying with a religion that prays to someone besides God and Christ calling ME cultic. Thats just too much of a laugher.

GOD knows where HIS lines are for each human HE has created as to whether they are worthy of Heaven or Hell. HE does not need us yacking on about our opinions of certain verses that support one side or the other. In fact the absolute TRUTH of GOD is relative to how each one of us wants to perceive it, and working out our own salvation with fear and trembling is what we ARE CALLED to do... NOT working out everyone else's so we can (play GOD) which by the way does nothing but cause us to be lifted with self pride that we can't even see when we attempt to venture into judgements about our fellow human beings that belong only to HIM....


GOD alone is going to do whatever HE alone chooses to do with each of us when we pass from this world...... WHAT WE ARE CALLED TO DO is to be like CHRIST and show HIS LOVE to everyone we encounter, and it is my opinion that such arguments are vain and utterly useless in furtherance or promotion of the Kingdom of GOD..... AKA in a nutshell stop worrying about something that has no eternal bearing on your own judgement, and start worrying about the things that do..... which primarily means GROWING IN HIS LOVE AND SHOWING IT TO THIS WORLD and remember that GOD does not need you helping HIM decide what should be done with another soul that HE has made, but HE does expect LOVE to be growing inside each of us to draw them to HIMSELF.