Once Saved Always Saved: Fact or Fiction?

[HatGuy]

So many claim to be saved, but the truth is that only God knows.
I make no claims, I am not religious,
Why don't you Christians do the same and put your self righteousness claims away.
Just be yourselves and be honest with yourselves.
Madera

I know I'm saved. That's the wonder of Christianity - we are saved not because of our self-righteousness but because of Jesus and his righteousness. When a Christian claims they are saved they are not saying they are more righteous than someone else. They are saying they are useless in righteousness and thus trust in Jesus' righteousness. How do I know I'm saved? Because Jesus died and rose again - for us all. That's what gives me confidence.

 

[Ronnie Tanner]

I would point out that the very first gaffe (hoping it doesn't spoil it for you!) is that the poster said it was from the Lord. A presumptuous statement, I would have thought.

Isn't your opinion rather presumptuous? How do you know what is written is not from the Lord?

 

[Jan001]

But once again, it's whatever the Bible teaches that matters...and I find that the verses that seem to teach Eternal Security are hard to put aside. Besides, if we are going to speak logically--as you were doing--I don't see anything logical in saying that God would allow anyone who has repented and been saved to fall after Jesus told his disciples not to worry. If I were to believe the freewill, salvation by works, no Eternal Security folks, I would be terrified instead! The only reason that the people who belong to churches that teach such a view aren't terrified every day is because they can't really bring themselves to believe that if they give their lives to Jesus, they can still be lost eternally by just one slip-up a moment before the heart attack.

Jesus states that some people will believe in Him for awhile and also will later fall away from believing in Him.

Luke 8:13
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. NKJV

How exactly do they stop believing in Him? They stop believing in Him when they succumb to temptation and sin against His commandments!

There is no belief in Jesus without obedience to His commandments.

What do you think will happen to these fallen away Christians if they do not repent of their new sins before they die?

Jesus tells us exactly what will happen to these unrepentant fallen-away Christians:

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who do what my Father in heaven wants will enter. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord! Lord! Didn’t we prophesy in your name? Didn’t we drive out demons in your name? Didn’t we do many miracles in your name?’ 23 Then I will tell them clearly, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who do evil!’ NRV

Peter commands us:

1 Peter 1:17
And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; NKJV

Paul commands us:

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; NKJV

Jesus first gives us salvation/grace/Holy Spirit's presence within us as His gift to us when we repent of our sins and are baptized/born again by water and the (Holy)Spirit.

However, we continue to be saved by obeying His commandments. If we die without the Holy Spirit's presence within us because of our sinfulness, we will not be approved to enter into eternal life. We must be faithful to Jesus and His commandments until we die if we desire to be approved to receive the crown of eternal life.

Both Peter and Paul tell us to fear the loss of our salvation and they do this so that we will obey God's commandments until we die and thereby be approved to enter/inherit eternal life. Revelation 2:10-11, James 1:12-16

 

[LoveofTruth]

The angels were not in a "saved eternal state" because "saved" generally means "redeemed" (from a previously fallen state). All your argument shows is that created beings can fall (and must be saved). This does not show that unrighteous beings saved by God can lose that salvation.

wrong they are in life and in Christ and eternal and perfect in all their ways, This is in a state of life. Yet they will end up in eternal fire. There is no redemption for them as far as we know. And note the words used connected to them,

"4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;: 2 Peter 2:4

what would be the point to use angels that sinned as a warning of being cast down to hell, if this did not warn all that even the highest state of being and in perfection can fall and go to fire?

also we read

"5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Jude 1 :5,6)

Here we see the same example but this time there is an hint of saving and destroying. Then he brings in the angels. All angels were perfect in all their ways, these are the highest example you could use that a perfect being can fall and go to fire. Or else there would be no reason to group them in with those who were saved and then destroyed

You error in your judgement here. I can agree that they were not saved from sin, for they do no have any offer of redemption, they had full knowledge it would seem and wilfully sinned. But the lake of fire that was created for the devil and his angels will also be home forever to all on earth who sin and do not believe the gospel.

and angels are not human or of human flesh like us. They are spiritual and perfect and yet in spirit they can sin. Believers also have a new nature spiritual and an old nature the flesh. But even in our spiritual life we can sin. We read of filthiness of flesh and spirit.

 

[Warrior In Training]

I've grown up in a Christian home that believes Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS), and I, myself, have doubts about it but am for it. With the debates that circle it on many occasions, what is your viewpoint and reasoning behind it; whether it is supposedly fact or suplosedly fiction?


EDIT*: I don't think this thread applies to this forum.

"Once Saved Always Saved" is a lie and deception of the devil!...DON'T FALL FOR IT!...

The bible is clear - we must endure to the end to be saved!...

 

[jimbohank]

Then you were never saved to start with. If you were truly "saved", you will not decide later to not be saved. You will always have to experience of being saved and the promise from God that he is with you always.

Also, no, they did not do anything to earn the salvation.

"Then you were never saved to start with."
True...that was my point.

"Also, no, they did not do anything to earn the salvation."
Did I say that we earn salvation? Please re-read my post. We still have to make a choice to accept the free gift of salvation, which was my point...and I think you understand that.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I know I'm saved. That's the wonder of Christianity - we are saved not because of our self-righteousness but because of Jesus and his righteousness. When a Christian claims they are saved they are not saying they are more righteous than someone else. They are saying they are useless in righteousness and thus trust in Jesus' righteousness. How do I know I'm saved? Because Jesus died and rose again - for us all. That's what gives me confidence.

well as far as a believers righteousness being more than someone elses Jesus said

"
Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

of ourself we are not righteous, in Christ we are made the righteousness of God through faith. If we continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel. The hope is Christ in you the hope of glory as Paul said.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The angels were not in a "saved eternal state" because "saved" generally means "redeemed" (from a previously fallen state). All your argument shows is that created beings can fall (and must be saved). This does not show that unrighteous beings saved by God can lose that salvation.

the word saved can mean to protect deliver make whole. The angels are in a whole state already preseved and protected in Christ. They have Christ n them also and yet they can still sin and end up in the lake of fire. How do you suppose this is possible for them to be in Christ and then go to the lake of fire? in fact Adam was also a son of God and he sinned and died spiritually and needed to be born again. Yet he was once in Christ and then died.

 

[LoveofTruth]

well as far as a believers righteousness being more than someone elses Jesus said

"
Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

of ourself we are not righteous, in Christ we are made the righteousness of God through faith. If we continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel. The hope is Christ in you the hope of glory as Paul said.

and the righteousness of God is fulfilled in us who walk after the spirit not the flesh Romans 8

 

[jimbohank]

well as far as a believers righteousness being more than someone elses Jesus said

"
Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

of ourself we are not righteous, in Christ we are made the righteousness of God through faith. If we continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel. The hope is Christ in you the hope of glory as Paul said.

Love it!

 

[LoveofTruth]

I know I'm saved.

Judas was once saved also as we see

"10 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

[Here we see that Judas was one of Jesus 12 disciples. It doesnt say he called his 11 and one devil as some wrongly try to say. Also all 12 were given power to cast out devils, Satan cannot cast out satan]

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

[ Yes Judas was one of the 12 apostles sent from God and ordained . Jesus sent these 12 forth to preach and ordained them all as scripture teaches in another place]

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

[These 12 (Judas included) how much clearer can it be]

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

[all 12 were not lost sheep, they were found sheep sent to the lost sheep as vs 16 says also]

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

[ Judas ( one of the 12) also could do this and he was a partaker of the ministry as we read in Acts 1]

...13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

[Judas one of the 12 had the peace of God to give to others]

...16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

[all 12 were SHEEP sent forth, JUDAS included, there you go Judas was one of the sheep at the beginning of the ministry He belonged to the father even before the Father gave him to Jesus John 17:6]

...19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

[all 12 (Judas included) had the Spirit of the father speaking in them]

...24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

[all 12 were as their master Judas included]

...31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows."Matthew 10:

[all 12 were very valuable to God Judas included. Judas was a familiar friend in whom Jesus once trusted then he betrayed him. To betray means to once have the trust of.

 

[Albion]

I said this:
"Because we are held by God (Jn 10:28), which is also by grace, we don't earn losing it by anything we do."

Neither. Jn 10:28 is about who is holding on to whom. God holds onto His children, obviously. It has nothing to do with conditions, per your questions.

Wait a mo. That verse quotes Jesus as saying none of those who had been given to him could in any wise be taken from him.

How is that "obvious"? Please advise. Jesus said nothing about keeping anyone faithful, as your post insinuates. Not even close to that.

See the above.

v.28 is a clear statement about eternal security: Jesus gives eternal life to them (believers), and THEY WILL NEVER PERISH. Again, nothing about conditions of behavior.

Agreed. But neither are you free to conclude that they might decide to renounce their belief in the Messiah.

 

[jimbohank]

So many claim to be saved, but the truth is that only God knows.
I make no claims, I am not religious,
Why don't you Christians do the same and put your self righteousness claims away.
Just be yourselves and be honest with yourselves.
Madera

You are right, only God knows. Not sure why you threw in the "Why don't you Christians do the same and put your self righteousness claims away". Isn't that the point of salvation through Christ? We have no righteousness but through Him. I am not worthy enough to even be a bacteria stuck to a piece of gum on God's shoe, yet He loved me enough to give me such a gift...to give us all such a gift.

 

[Albion]

The bible is clear - we must endure to the end to be saved!...

It does. But knowing that doesn't help one bit to decide if there is such a thing as Eternal Security or not.

 

[redleghunter]

Eternal security (and it's corollary OSAS) is entirely Biblical, as well as soundly Christian.

"They, whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace: from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins; and, for a time, continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves." Westminster Confession of Faith [17]

"Since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God."
1 Peter 1:23

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."
John 6:37

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
John 10:27-29

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?"
Romans 8:35

"For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 8:38-39

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."
Romans 11:29

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."
1 John 2:19

"And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."
Philippians 1:6

"If we are faithless, he remains faithful - for he cannot deny himself."
2 Timothy 2:13

Need I go on?

Romans 8 is the complete explanation of this subject. Thanks for posting the many other references and of course there are more.

 

[redleghunter]

I've grown up in a Christian home that believes Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS), and I, myself, have doubts about it but am for it. With the debates that circle it on many occasions, what is your viewpoint and reasoning behind it; whether it is supposedly fact or suplosedly fiction?


EDIT*: I don't think this thread applies to this forum.

You might not get many takers on the survey. Reason? OSAS is not a literal Biblical term, but a doctrinal term describing the various (and many) Scriptural passages relating to God as Sovereign in Salvation.

 

[gigman7]

What you are saying would negate free will. If I choose to change my mind and reject God, will I be forced to go to heaven?

If you choose to reject God, you were never saved to start with.

 

[jimbohank]

If you choose to reject God, you were never saved to start with.

I think what he is saying is that for someone who once professed salvation but now denies God was never truely saved to begin with. Maybe I am wrong?

 

[Brother Chris]

I think what he is saying is that for someone who once professed salvation but now denies God was never truely saved to begin with. Maybe I am wrong?

No, you are correct. Any one who professes faith in Christ, and abandons that profession of faith, was never converted to begin with. God saves people, and God keeps them. Only those who are truly born again and possess the Spirit of God can endure til the end. They endure because the Spirit energizes them to do so. An unsaved professing Christian, who does not have the Spirit, will quit and walk away. He can't live the Christian life, because he is not a saved, he is not a Christian.

 

[gigman7]

Losing one's salvation through forbidden behaviors:

Three verses from the Christian Scriptures seem to imply that certain behaviors will cancel a person's salvation. Three passages declare absolutely that all persons who perform certain behaviors will not "inherit the kingdom of God". These verses seem to be absolute. That is, they apply to everyone, even to those who have been previously saved:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11: "Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."(ASV)
St. Paul appears to state that some members of the church at Corinth were once following some of the behaviors listed and would thus not inherit the kingdom of God. But after they were saved, they changed their behavior. But the passage does seem to state unambiguously that all individuals who commit one of the forbidden sins after having been saved will go to hell.

​

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sava3.htm

What you have quoted is not "losing salvation", it's never having it. If you read it the way you are trying to show it, we are all going to hell. It basically says we are all going to hell for our sins. But fortunatey, because of salvation, we can get by all of this through Christ.