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CF has no problems with Torah observance. I go absolutely everywhere. Nor do I have problems discussing Church history.
Yeah, jeff, you just can't go and do that.
Well I'm sorry to see you go. I wish you could have learned to work with the rules so that we could have heard your ideas.
Yikes. Luther was on an antisemitic tirade when he wrote that, and for anyone to defend it, well, what can I say. The Jews are the hotbotton issue for me. I get all hot and bothered and my claws come out. I have a good Catholic friend here in CF who is also into replacement theology, and it's really hard for me not to flame him when he says the Church is Israel, even though I ordinarily like him a great deal, I just want to yell, You anti-Semitic ********!!!! Yeah, that would get me banned instantaneously. It's all feeelings. I have to take a step back and realize that this is not about expressing my feelings. And so I calmly disagree with him and give my reasons ONE MORE TIME (bangs head on desk).
I find this VERY interesting.I was raised, baptized, and confirmed Episcopalian. I served the priest as an acolyte. Then I fell away from God in my adulthood. I now am a charismatic born-again Christian and I attend a large A of G church. Episcopalian church is the closest protestant church to the Catholic church. We pray many of the same prayers and we both use a prayer book over the Bible in services.
I am now a Hebrew Christian and believe in not only following God's Laws (which are not necessarily 613
Do you do the rosary?
I wear a rosary daily around my neck and I pray it with 5 prayers I have adopted for my own beliefs in this order:
- Lord's Prayer
- Shema
- God's Creed
- Confession of Sins
- Priestly Blessing
Do you pray to "intermediaries" other than Messiah?
Yes, I do. I pray to God the Father ALHYM (which is all of God and God Almighty) and I pray to my personal God ALYHWA. I pray to Jesus as well, but not as much. I pray to Jesus when I pray with my children, when I need to be healed or to heal, and when I feel in need of redemption.
Do you own any graven images, or icons used for your "holy" observance?
Graven images are a violation of Commandment number 2 of the Decagon. So, no. I had an image of Jesus on my crucifix on my rosary and God specifically told me to remove it, which I did. Now my white MOP cross is bare except for some letters.
Do you believe infant baptism is valid?
Not so much. I believe one needs to be baptized when one becomes born again in the Spirit. However, my person rejects being baptized in my church. I believe baptism should occur in God's waters--in lakes or streams. I am waiting for my Beloved to baptize me in such.
Do you uphold "counsel's" of men over the Words of God in the Torah?
Absolutely not. I believe counsels should only be consulted when contentious issues are at hand which no one person can reconcile. As with what books deserved canonization, etc. God's Word should be studied by individuals and instructed by trusted wise ones of God.
Do you believe in apostolic succession, and the Roman Catholic claim that they are the heirs?
I believe there does exist a hierarchy of Chosen Ones. The more responsibility, the more reward. The more one is trusted and proves worthy of that trust, the more one is honored and even glorified in Heaven. I believe saints have existed, still exist, and will continue to exist. I believe in angels on earth. And demons.
Do you believe the Roman Catholic Church is "the mother church" and not the bride of Messiah?
All church is just about gathering to worship the One Lord GOD Almighty. Jesus said church is His bride. Catholics get some things more right than other denominations, but less right than others. Denominations detract from the truth, which is the devil's aim. Christianity is the only word that matters in religion.
My point is... this awakening is happening over a generation and the people of God are coming from all places and walks. If we burn bridges then the people can't come and ask questions. We need to leave the door open to communication, be loving a kind (as well as patient and long suffering) and in doing so we will see doors open to us to teach that haven't been opened to us before. Our congregation has been asked to do Passover Seders at most of the churches in our town, including the Catholic Church. Clearly God is stirring the pot and something special will soon happen!
An interesting and to me quite sad thing that happens in the Messianic/Hebrew Roots world is that all too often when one becomes enlightened to their roots, they tend to turn bitter assuming they had been lied to, and they leave the church (of whatever persuasion it happened to be) and burn bridges. What they fail to understand is that what God is doing today He is doing over a process of time. This is an awakening but not everyone wakes up at the same time. In the parable of the Fig Tree (Israel?) we see tender shoots (new branches and leaves) opening up but not all buds open at the same time, not all leave develop at the same speed. I have seen Christians fighting tooth and nail against this "Hebraic Gospel" only to be out helping us build a Sukkah in the fall of the same year. I has a pastor once tell me, when he asked me to paint a bathroom on a Saturday, "I will fix you of that Sabbath problem yet." I didn't lash out, I help my peace, and within 2 years he hosted Marc Chopinsky (formerly of Israel's Hope) and sat with me watching his associate pastor doing Messianic style dance in a line with 100 other people.
Outstanding post on the awakening.An interesting and to me quite sad thing that happens in the Messianic/Hebrew Roots world is that all too often when one becomes enlightened to their roots, they tend to turn bitter assuming they had been lied to, and they leave the church (of whatever persuasion it happened to be) and burn bridges. What they fail to understand is that what God is doing today He is doing over a process of time. This is an awakening but not everyone wakes up at the same time. In the parable of the Fig Tree (Israel?) we see tender shoots (new branches and leaves) opening up but not all buds open at the same time, not all leave develop at the same speed. I have seen Christians fighting tooth and nail against this "Hebraic Gospel" only to be out helping us build a Sukkah in the fall of the same year. I has a pastor once tell me, when he asked me to paint a bathroom on a Saturday, "I will fix you of that Sabbath problem yet." I didn't lash out, I help my peace, and within 2 years he hosted Marc Chopinsky (formerly of Israel's Hope) and sat with me watching his associate pastor doing Messianic style dance in a line with 100 other people.
Outstanding post on the awakening.
I find Christians who pray a lot and commune with the Father are the first to hear YHWH say Torah is for today and never did pass away. Matthew 5:18-19.
Constantine hijacked the Hebrew and Nazarene scriptures. He did a "make over" to create the non-Hebrew style of Christianity we've had for almost 2000 years.
Thank God the Jews didn't let go of Torah and the MJs are promoting Torah lifestyle so the lawless can see Torah works.
I keep discussing Matthew 5:18-19 with friends who wonder about a me being Torah observant. Their resistance is melting. They're starting to see the wisdom of Torah obedience. Some of them are getting on board.
The rewards for doing mitzvot are clear and noticeable. Anyone who starts doing Torah mitzvot are going to find increased positive results flood their life.
PSALMS 19:7-11 REWARDS
7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;
8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart;
The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes;
9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
Yea, than much fine gold;
Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them Your servant is warned,
And in keeping them there is great reward.
"But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly." - Matthew 6:3-4
"When you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly." - Matthew 6:6
"But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly." - Matthew 6:17-18
"He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward." - Matthew 10:31
But you don't promote Torah observance as the members of the MJ forum do, that is why you are given more 'grace'. As long as you promote no Torah for gentiles you will be welcome everywhere, most believe differently here.
This is one thing that really irks me... there is 0 scriptural evidence of a Noachide law.
I know you were trying to analyze the Pharisees, but I think sometimes the Pharisees get a bad rap. These were the guys who went out of their way to teach the law to all, to bring Torah out of the hands of the priests and give it to the commoner. Some of them were legalistic (school of Shammai) and some were not (like the school of Hillel). Some were hypocritical and got the wrath of Jesus thrown at them, and some were not, (like Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea). But let's see about the Torah they taught.
