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Taking Questions on Instant Creation
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TLK Valentine
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I know of no creation event that took place in Genesis 2 that hadn't taken place yet in Genesis 1.
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TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
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I think you mean "taken place already," and that's the point. When and why certain things were created differ between 1 and 2... and that's an issue which needs to be addressed.
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Address it then.
But for the record, note this passage, where Jesus quotes from both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2:[VERSE=Matthew 19:4-5,KJV][VERSENUM]4[/VERSENUM] And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, [VERSENUM]5[/VERSENUM] And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?[/VERSE]
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Chicken Little
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( giggles) I think your guess is wrong . I only said that to you because I think you might enjoy this clue ! http://www.arrowheadology.com/forums/arrowheads-news/41039-cosmic-impact-younger-dryas-onset.html
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TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
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I thought this was your "you have questions; I have answers" thread.
Must we do everything for you?
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pgp_protector
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Okay, I'll try to keep it limited to Gen 1:
Thoughts:
* Genesis 1 appears to involve Elohim creating things. It doesn't say Yahweh. The idea of the Divine Council (where Yahweh was an instance of elohim, and Elohim refers to plural "gods" from what I understand), along with other ideas that the Jews moved from polytheism to monotheism gradually and this reflected in their texts (I'm pulling from memory here) such as in Genesis 1 ... I don't see how it's at all that clear that the Elohim of Gen 1 is referring to a single deity, or even Yahweh for that matter. IOW ... I don't see where Gen 1 shows clearly that a single God that is Yahweh at all points, created the heaven and earth. So when Christians say, "God created the universe", I don't see where Genesis 1 even says that. The way I read it, Gen 1 is showing multiple deities known as "Elohim" created the universe. Thoughts ?
* The first thing I see Elohim creating, is light. It is also the first thing I see Elohim calling "good". This is separated from the darkness. The darkness, appears as though it's already there, the way I read it. The darkness, the abyss (deep), the Spirit of God (Ruach Elohim), and the "waters" ... all appear to be there already. That is to say, it doesn't show where or how they were created, or by what agency. Thus, when believers claim, "God created the entire universe," etc ... even in Genesis 1, there appears to be certain things unaccounted for: darkness, abyss, "waters", Ruach Elohim, and perhaps even the "without form, and void" earth ("and the earth she became chaos and vacancy"). So who or what created the abyss, darkness, "waters", etc ? Also, I don't see where any of those things were called "good". The light was the first thing to be called "good". Thoughts ?
* The scriptures themselves, are full of symbolic language ... when we get to the NT, we find Jesus continually referring to people and concepts of the Kingdom of God, in terms of plants, animals, etc. People are sheep, baby hens, snakes, broods of vipers, trees. They have seeds within them, Jesus is the sower. Jesus refers to Himself as a vine, people are branches. Lambs and goats, wheat and chaff. Jesus says that while He is in the world, He is the light of the world, that it is day time ... he claims night is coming, when no one can work. He refers to light and darkness in terms of the hearts of men and women, etc. In Revelations, angels are referred to as stars, people as waters, etc and so forth. All of this to say ... how does one conclude that Gen 1 is describing literal creation of the universe, and not something else ? For example: on the fourth day, we see Elohim making the stars, the greater light, the lesser light, etc. These things were set in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth, to rule over the day and night, to divide light from darkness, etc. Is this describing celestial beings who are tasked with dividing light from darkness, ruling over the day and night, etc ? Are the sun and moon here talking about Christ and Israel/elect/etc or some such ? My point being, why does Genesis have to be describing only literal creation of the universe, when perhaps it's actually just another instance of a parable ? For instance, in Gen 2 (where we see Yahweh create Adam and Eve, and the talking serpent/snake is in the Garden with them) ... the snake is compared to the beasts of the field. These same animals were considered as partners for Adam, before Yahweh decided on created Eve. Really ? Yahweh had talking snakes and considered cows and whatnot as potential sexual candidates and partners for Adam ? My point, is again the "parable" language. When Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and called them snakes and brooks of vipers, unless we are talking ancient shape shifting Reptilian alien agenda stuff again ... it's "parable" language. So, why can't Gen 1 be a parable ? Thoughts ?
* The man made by Elohim on the sixth day, they are made in the image and likeness of Elohim. They are given dominion over fish of the sea, fowl of the air, cattle, all the earth, every creeping thing, etc. They were created male and female. They were blessed, told to be fruitful and multiply, they were declared "good", told to replenish the earth, subdue it, etc. They were given herbs, fruits, etc to eat. Specifically, these men and women were allowed to eat from EVERY tree.
Contrast these beings with Adam and Eve: created by Yahweh Elohim, first created was the "man" Adam. He became a living soul. He was placed in a specific location (Garden), with the task of tending to it. He wasn't allowed to eat from every tree, one tree was off limits to him. Eve was made later, and also made for the Garden. They were never declared "good", never told to be fruitful and multiply, never given dominion over all the earth and the animals in it (they were to tend to the Garden, and name the animals and things of the earth). They can speak (Gen 1 male and females aren't shown to speak).
All of that to say, the male and female humans created by Elohim in Gen 1, appear radically different from Adam and Eve created by Yahweh Elohim in Gen 2. Thoughts ?
ETA: Fixed link in first paragraph.
Thoughts:
* Genesis 1 appears to involve Elohim creating things. It doesn't say Yahweh. The idea of the Divine Council (where Yahweh was an instance of elohim, and Elohim refers to plural "gods" from what I understand), along with other ideas that the Jews moved from polytheism to monotheism gradually and this reflected in their texts (I'm pulling from memory here) such as in Genesis 1 ... I don't see how it's at all that clear that the Elohim of Gen 1 is referring to a single deity, or even Yahweh for that matter. IOW ... I don't see where Gen 1 shows clearly that a single God that is Yahweh at all points, created the heaven and earth. So when Christians say, "God created the universe", I don't see where Genesis 1 even says that. The way I read it, Gen 1 is showing multiple deities known as "Elohim" created the universe. Thoughts ?
* The first thing I see Elohim creating, is light. It is also the first thing I see Elohim calling "good". This is separated from the darkness. The darkness, appears as though it's already there, the way I read it. The darkness, the abyss (deep), the Spirit of God (Ruach Elohim), and the "waters" ... all appear to be there already. That is to say, it doesn't show where or how they were created, or by what agency. Thus, when believers claim, "God created the entire universe," etc ... even in Genesis 1, there appears to be certain things unaccounted for: darkness, abyss, "waters", Ruach Elohim, and perhaps even the "without form, and void" earth ("and the earth she became chaos and vacancy"). So who or what created the abyss, darkness, "waters", etc ? Also, I don't see where any of those things were called "good". The light was the first thing to be called "good". Thoughts ?
* The scriptures themselves, are full of symbolic language ... when we get to the NT, we find Jesus continually referring to people and concepts of the Kingdom of God, in terms of plants, animals, etc. People are sheep, baby hens, snakes, broods of vipers, trees. They have seeds within them, Jesus is the sower. Jesus refers to Himself as a vine, people are branches. Lambs and goats, wheat and chaff. Jesus says that while He is in the world, He is the light of the world, that it is day time ... he claims night is coming, when no one can work. He refers to light and darkness in terms of the hearts of men and women, etc. In Revelations, angels are referred to as stars, people as waters, etc and so forth. All of this to say ... how does one conclude that Gen 1 is describing literal creation of the universe, and not something else ? For example: on the fourth day, we see Elohim making the stars, the greater light, the lesser light, etc. These things were set in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth, to rule over the day and night, to divide light from darkness, etc. Is this describing celestial beings who are tasked with dividing light from darkness, ruling over the day and night, etc ? Are the sun and moon here talking about Christ and Israel/elect/etc or some such ? My point being, why does Genesis have to be describing only literal creation of the universe, when perhaps it's actually just another instance of a parable ? For instance, in Gen 2 (where we see Yahweh create Adam and Eve, and the talking serpent/snake is in the Garden with them) ... the snake is compared to the beasts of the field. These same animals were considered as partners for Adam, before Yahweh decided on created Eve. Really ? Yahweh had talking snakes and considered cows and whatnot as potential sexual candidates and partners for Adam ? My point, is again the "parable" language. When Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and called them snakes and brooks of vipers, unless we are talking ancient shape shifting Reptilian alien agenda stuff again ... it's "parable" language. So, why can't Gen 1 be a parable ? Thoughts ?
* The man made by Elohim on the sixth day, they are made in the image and likeness of Elohim. They are given dominion over fish of the sea, fowl of the air, cattle, all the earth, every creeping thing, etc. They were created male and female. They were blessed, told to be fruitful and multiply, they were declared "good", told to replenish the earth, subdue it, etc. They were given herbs, fruits, etc to eat. Specifically, these men and women were allowed to eat from EVERY tree.
Contrast these beings with Adam and Eve: created by Yahweh Elohim, first created was the "man" Adam. He became a living soul. He was placed in a specific location (Garden), with the task of tending to it. He wasn't allowed to eat from every tree, one tree was off limits to him. Eve was made later, and also made for the Garden. They were never declared "good", never told to be fruitful and multiply, never given dominion over all the earth and the animals in it (they were to tend to the Garden, and name the animals and things of the earth). They can speak (Gen 1 male and females aren't shown to speak).
All of that to say, the male and female humans created by Elohim in Gen 1, appear radically different from Adam and Eve created by Yahweh Elohim in Gen 2. Thoughts ?
ETA: Fixed link in first paragraph.
Last edited:
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Davian
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I was thinking of the 4th millennium BCE neolithic Chinese settlements. Perhaps they were populated by those that came back from the future in the TARDIS-ark.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_millennium_BC
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As I understand it, "Elohim" is a uni-plural word, and is in league with "Godhead."
In other words, "Elohim" refers to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.
The standard blueprint in the KJB for differentiation goes like this:
God = Elohim = Godhead
LORD = JEHOVAH = God the Father
As I understand it, the NIV retains this distinction.
The first thing God creates is heaven (or outer space).[VERSE=Genesis 1:1,KJV]In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.[/VERSE]The second thing God creates is a race of angels.[VERSE=Job 38:7,KJV]When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?[/VERSE]The third thing God created is the earth.TillICollapse said:
The first object in the universe having mass.
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![[serious]](/data/avatars/m/160/160873.jpg?1431539545){kind=avatar}
Was there any teleportation involved in this pre-flood migration, or was that reserved for post flood?
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My guess is that there was.
We believe God brought the animals to the Ark, and I can't picture animals indigenous to far-off places having to make a trek to the Ark.
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None of these "answers" aren't anything I haven't already heard before concerning various interpretations. Thx for responding to a few of my queries.
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Alithis
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no questions - Being a believer in the lord Jesus i believe the word of God (written and living )and i believe God and i believe that we can trust him in what he says as thats what makes us believers and folks that say they believe him but then doubt his word make me doubt their sincerity in saying they believe him .
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