The Duggar Family

[Open Heart]

well the difference is that this was not covered up, the police knew about what happened

and the police covered it up. the whole thing stinks.

 

[Root of Jesse]

What penance?

I think that admitting to doing wrong before anyone else knows about it is doing penance. Seeking help on your own is doing penance. Going to the police and turning yourself in when nobody knows, except your family, is doing penance. Facing those you wronged and asking forgiveness is also penance.

 

[Root of Jesse]

and the police covered it up. the whole thing stinks.

Police routinely close cases when there's no there there. From a legal perspective, maybe that was true.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What leads you to believe that the girls were forced to forgive? I mean, the boy ratted on himself, did penance, and received forgiveness. The family took measures to prevent it from happening again, and it didn't, apparently.

I gotta say, forgiveness is a tough thing. I did something 10 years ago my wife hasn't totally forgiven me for, but I live with that. Josh has to live with what he did. But juvenile records should remain sealed.

However, when the police report was taken Josh was not a juvenile.

 

[Open Heart]

Why, because they handled it the way Jesus said in Matthew 15:18 and following?

Sorry, but I don't see the connection. How does harboring a criminal have anything to do with what Jesus said?

 

[Root of Jesse]

However, when the police report was taken Josh was not a juvenile.

When the acts in question happened, he was. It's irrelevant.
Look, I don't think the Duggars are squeaky clean here, either. I just laugh a lot at the LGBT crowd who think they're hypocrites (they are, by human nature, anyway), just because there were problems in their own family. And I think the incidents, how ever many there were, were handled, nobody wanted to bring charges, nobody brought charges, and the case was closed. And, as I said, if a boy in school had done much more than what Josh did, people would be shrugging their shoulders, pretty much.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Sorry, but I don't see the connection. How does harboring a criminal have anything to do with what Jesus said?

The kid did something wrong. The parents confronted him, also led him to the authorities, and he submitted to whatever would happen to him. Then it never occurred again, as far as we know. If he continued, the next step was to cast him out.

You know, once, I found out my teen was stealing from a store-some pretty substantial value-items. I took him to the store with the items, found the manager and he admitted what he had been doing. He listed what he took, and made restitution. The store owner decided not to press charges, and that he had learned something from the experience. I never had the problem again.

 

[Open Heart]

That is exactly why I wanted to know about this case in particular. Because the overlying thing is that they are Christians, but these people are in a cult. They do all sorts of weird stuff in the name of Christianity, however their actions betray them and their hate speech is mortifying as it is full of accusations of a particular group of people that have no findings.

Even today, they take more care in covering up problems and trying to save their tv show, then showing Christianity. It's just a sick, sick situation.

Yet how many christians are in this thread defending them? You see, it isn't just the Duggars. Something has gone screwy with Christian culture. We have abandoned justice and have become enablers.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yet how many christians are in this thread defending them? You see, it isn't just the Duggars. Something has gone screwy with Christian culture. We have abandoned justice and have become enablers.

I don't see anyone defending Josh Duggar for what he did. I do defend the parents for how they handled the situation. I think it was appropriate. I don't think we need to rely on the nanny-state government to discipline our children. They're too confused trying to figure out whether gay marriage is appropriate.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yet how many christians are in this thread defending them? You see, it isn't just the Duggars. Something has gone screwy with Christian culture. We have abandoned justice and have become enablers.

I agree. I feel that God has put it upon my heart that we need to practice what we preach in our own lives, because this is what cause non-Christians as well as other Christians to see Christ in us. That to me is what changes minds and hearts.

That's one of the reason's why I find this whole story/scenario so disturbing is because they did not cling to the bible or their faith imho, which would have been a wonderful testimony had it been done.

 

[Liberasit]

Maybe all men who have authority, but not all men. I could not walk up to one of those girls and tell her to do something, and expect that she'd do it. Be real.

What kind of authority does a 15 year brother have?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't see anyone defending Josh Duggar for what he did. I do defend the parents for how they handled the situation. I think it was appropriate. I don't think we need to rely on the nanny-state government to discipline our children. They're too confused trying to figure out whether gay marriage is appropriate.

But didn't you say earlier that you really didn't know much about the situation? I find that interesting if that is indeed a fact. I don't want to put words in your mouth, so I am asking.

 

[Root of Jesse]

What kind of authority does a 15 year brother have?

The dad has the authority, not the son. But those girls were asleep when they were molested, if that's the appropriate word.

 

[Root of Jesse]

But didn't you say earlier that you really didn't know much about the situation? I find that interesting if that is indeed a fact. I don't want to put words in your mouth, so I am asking.

I know what I saw in the interview, and all the analysis from those I trust in the news. I don't have time to go digging, because I'm not that interested. I caught a sniff on May 19 that something was up, but ignored it until the interview on Fox. I tend to stay away from world news.
Again, my point is about the re-victimization of the girls, the digging up of old crap, the 'gotcha' mentality of the press and those who want their agendas normalized.

 

[Open Heart]

I think that admitting to doing wrong before anyone else knows about it is doing penance. Seeking help on your own is doing penance. Going to the police and turning yourself in when nobody knows, except your family, is doing penance. Facing those you wronged and asking forgiveness is also penance.

Everything you have listed above is what I would call confession. Penance is when you do something to either UNDO your sin or to COMPENSATE for your sin. Since he can't undo the molestation, penance would have to mean some kind of compensation/retribution/punishment. He started off right by turning himself in to the police, but this all went bad when the police decided to cover things up. Basically, penance would mean some sort of service to the girls or financial compensation to them, perhaps jail time or probation, in the old days it might have meant some kind of corporal punishment but we don't do that anymore. You get idea.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Everything you have listed above is what I would call confession. Penance is when you do something to either UNDO your sin or to COMPENSATE for your sin. Since he can't undo the molestation, penance would have to mean some kind of compensation/retribution/punishment. He started off right by turning himself in to the police, but this all went bad when the police decided to cover things up. Basically, penance would mean some sort of service to the girls or financial compensation to them, perhaps jail time or probation, in the old days it might have meant some kind of corporal punishment but we don't do that anymore. You get idea.

We don't know what he might be doing financially or in service to those girls.

 

[Open Heart]

Police routinely close cases when there's no there there. From a legal perspective, maybe that was true.

When there's no case? He confessed! How was there no case? No, the police simply covered it up. They decided on their own that the girls hadn't been molested enough to warrant police involvement.

 

[Open Heart]

We don't know what he might be doing financially or in service to those girls.

I'd bet money that if he were doing anything at all, they would be tooting their horns over it.

 

[Root of Jesse]

When there's no case? He confessed! How was there no case? No, the police simply covered it up. They decided on their own that the girls hadn't been molested enough to warrant police involvement.

Meaning there was no case. Thanks for making my point! The police routinely close cases for insufficient evidence, lack of a will to press charges, etc. You call it a coverup if you want. Why aren't they investigating the police department, as many cities across the country seem wont to do???

 

[Open Heart]

You know, once, I found out my teen was stealing from a store-some pretty substantial value-items. I took him to the store with the items, found the manager and he admitted what he had been doing. He listed what he took, and made restitution. The store owner decided not to press charges, and that he had learned something from the experience. I never had the problem again.

Yeah, I had a similar problem with my son. He stole $600 from my purse and went and bought an X-box. I took him down to the police station with the intent to press charges (He was 16). The officer helped me out by giving him a tour of the jail, and enrolling him in a police boot camp, only pretending to make an arrest report, and in general scaring the heck out of my son, who then faithfully made it through boot camp with humility.