If I'm an Atheist and I am not a bad person, will I go to hell?

[bhsmte]

Being saved = getting into heaven.

No matter what type of life a person leads?

Do you believe that the serial killer who gets saved on death row and repents his sins, will be allowed heaven? How about the Hindu who leads a terrific life helping others, but does not believe in Christianity? Do they get to heaven?

 

[Albion]

No, not if you get in there with a perfect score. There was nothing to be saved from, in that case.

OK, I guess. So what's your point again, considering that no one can get 100% on the test?

Being saved means not deserving heaven, but getting there anyway.

Not exactly. It means not being deserving of heaven on the basis of your own record...but getting there because someone else has made it possible.

 

[Eudaimonist]

OK, I guess. So what's your point again, considering that no one can get 100% on the test?

The point was actually that of Archaeopteryx. He had written:

Why create beings that, by their nature, will never satisfy your standards, only to punish them for constantly falling short of standards they could never hope to achieve?

Not exactly. It means not being deserving of heaven on the basis of your own record...but getting there because someone else has made it possible.

Yes, that is pretty much what I had meant.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Albion]

The point was actually that of Archaeopteryx. He had written:

Why create beings that, by their nature, will never satisfy your standards, only to punish them for constantly falling short of standards they could never hope to achieve?

Thank you. However, I believe that I already answered this question. "Only to punish them" is clearly not an accurate rendering of the religious perspective of Christianity.

 

[GillDouglas]

I deny Jesus as a savior of mankind, but I do think historically speaking, he was a real person. I find it extremely unlikely there is a God of any kind, even more unlikely a god that actually "loves" his creation and for some reason cares so much if people love him back. And to make it clear too, I don't believe in the devil either. I'm an honest and caring person, I've never done an "evil" thing my entire life. With that all said, would I go to hell?

This is a question only God could answer. You should ask Him! However, in my opinion if anyone and everyone can be 'saved' and go to Heaven without accepting what Christ did for them, then what was the point of God sending Him to die on the Cross to begin with? Without Christ's righteousness protecting us from the presence of the Father in Heaven we'd die. Don't you think you should get to know the guy who can do that for you, and get on board with that?

As it stands according to the word of God, all who reject Christ will be separated from God forever. I do believe that those who never had the opportunity to know Him, like a baby or some remote tribe in Africa, may be an exception. This is something I continue to question, especially children. It's a tough topic, especially from a finite limited human perspective.

 

[GillDouglas]

Why create beings that, by their nature, will never satisfy your standards, only to punish them for constantly falling short of standards they could never hope to achieve?

It sure would be a boring story if Adam and Eve never ate the apple, wouldn't it? I believe this story of redemption is a lot more interesting.

 

[Wryetui]

Fair enough. He is then, apathetic or indifferent towards a large part of His creation.

How can you say something like this lol? This has proven your religious analfabetism and inculture, indifferent towards His creation? How can someone have such a little sense of dignity, don't you think it's enough what Christ endured on the cross? Don't you think is enough all the hits, the punches, the suffering He endured on the cross just for someone like you?

I'm glad I am not God because I would make the flames and the diseases eat alive some people...

 

[GillDouglas]

If I disobey, should my father punish me eternally? Is that just?

From your perspective, why does this matter? You've rejected Christ which means you do not believe the teachings of the Bible. If you don't believe in that, then surely you can't believe you'll be punished for eternity. Why are you so concerned about it? You've forfeited your faith in a Savior you don't believe in, you shouldn't worry so much.

'Good' and 'Bad' are all about perspective. Anything that happens for the glory of God is good, regardless. Sure from our perspective, things can look pretty crappy. Was it good that my mother shot herself? I don't think so, in fact it really sucked for lack of a better word. How about looking at it from a different perspective. What about the fact that my step father was abusing her, physically and mentally? Does that change things a bit? What about the fact that it saved my life, and eventually led me to the Lord? I find that to be a very good thing. Perspective.

In either trust in God's plan or GTFO.

 

[bhsmte]

How can you say something like this lol? This has proven your religious analfabetism and inculture, indifferent towards His creation? How can someone have such a little sense of dignity, don't you think it's enough what Christ endured on the cross? Don't you think is enough all the hits, the punches, the suffering He endured on the cross just for someone like you?

I'm glad I am not God because I would make the flames and the diseases eat alive some people...

Good thing your not then.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

How can you say something like this lol? This has proven your religious analfabetism and inculture, indifferent towards His creation? How can someone have such a little sense of dignity, don't you think it's enough what Christ endured on the cross? Don't you think is enough all the hits, the punches, the suffering He endured on the cross just for someone like you?

I say He is indifferent because He knows many will not be saved yet He stands idly by and watches His creation war and rape and kill itself just to save a few select people that have accepted the story as true. He knows I will never get into heaven because I don't believe the story of Jesus or even the story of Adam & Eve are true yet He does nothing to convince me or offer up any evidence, except send people who do already believe the story to speak for Him. And He doesn't seem to care. If that's true then I don't care to be there with Him either. He is indifferent towards a very large group of people that He knows are destined for hell.

I'm glad I am not God because I would make the flames and the diseases eat alive some people...

This must be that "Christian love for the sinner" I hear so much about...

 

[seekingsolace]

I say He is indifferent because He knows many will not be saved yet He stands idly by and watches His creation war and rape and kill itself just to save a few select people that have accepted the story as true. He knows I will never get into heaven because I don't believe the story of Jesus or even the story of Adam & Eve are true yet He does nothing to convince me or offer up any evidence, except send people who do already believe the story to speak for Him. And He doesn't seem to care. If that's true then I don't care to be there with Him either. He is indifferent towards a very large group of people that He knows are destined for hell.

How do you know you're not resisting? It seems that you have closed yourself to even the notion of the option.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

How do you know you're not resisting? It seems that you have closed yourself to even the notion of the option.

Yes I have closed myself off from the idea. The idea that an infinitely powerful and infinitely resourceful and infinitely benevolent being, created the universe then had no other way to change his own rules to ease our suffering because of the flaws that he himself built into his own creation, had no other choice than to turn himself into a human and live a perfect life and to be tortured and then executed to save us from himself. Yeah, I closed myself off from accepting that as a reality. If you want to claim that is reality then I await the proof, and I will change my mind, but if you can't prove it then I am under no obligation to accept it. If this is the system this being created then I have to take from that, that I was never meant to go to heaven. If I was never meant to go to heaven then why should I even care about trying to get there?

 

[seekingsolace]

Yes I have closed myself off from the idea. The idea that an infinitely powerful and infinitely resourceful and infinitely benevolent being, created the universe then had no other way to change his own rules to ease our suffering because of the flaws that he himself built into his own creation, had no other choice than to turn himself into a human and live a perfect life and to be tortured and then executed to save us from himself. Yeah, I closed myself off from accepting that as a reality. If you want to claim that is reality then I await the proof, and I will change my mind, but if you can't prove it then I am under no obligation to accept it. If this is the system this being created then I have to take from that, that I was never meant to go to heaven. If I was never meant to go to heaven then why should I even care about trying to get there?

What greater way can you show humility and love than to become as the creature you created; to suffer, be humiliated and killed by them, for them. No person has all the answers, I struggled with some of the points you highlighted. If you have an experience it's life changing, I truly hope you do. Religion may seem foolish, it did to me, sometimes you just need to accept we don't have the answers, and just ask.

 

[Wryetui]

I say He is indifferent because He knows many will not be saved yet He stands idly by and watches His creation war and rape and kill itself just to save a few select people that have accepted the story as true. He knows I will never get into heaven because I don't believe the story of Jesus or even the story of Adam & Eve are true yet He does nothing to convince me or offer up any evidence, except send people who do already believe the story to speak for Him. And He doesn't seem to care. If that's true then I don't care to be there with Him either. He is indifferent towards a very large group of people that He knows are destined for hell.


This must be that "Christian love for the sinner" I hear so much about...

Oh so you are mad because God doesn't save you yet He offered all the evidence needed, why do I believe the Bible and you don't? Is it that my brain isn't as sofisticated as yours and God's Bible is not good enough for you? You completely rejected God by not accepting Him, you denied yourself the entrance to Heaven! What is God supposed to do? To take you to Heaven by force? To cleanse you from sin by force? To heal your soul by force? No, God doesn't operate by force, not in this case. If you are calling God's word a fake, if you accept to not believe it because the evidence God offered until now is not good enough for you, you can do whatever you want, but not blaming God for your selfishness.

 

[nonbeliever314]

If you've never done an evil thing in your whole life, you're the first (other than for Jesus whose divine nature explains that).

But if you have never done anything wrong in your whole life and this continues until death, there is a chance that you'd be saved regardless of a lack of Faith in Christ. Christianity would admit that. But of course, this won't happen.

Maybe "evil" wasn't the right word to use here, what I basically meant to say is I haven't done anything really, really horrible to anyone or anything. Basically I'm not psychopath, ha.

 

[bhsmte]

What greater way can you show humility and love than to become as the creature you created; to suffer, be humiliated and killed by them, for them. No person has all the answers, I struggled with some of the points you highlighted. If you have an experience it's life changing, I truly hope you do. Religion may seem foolish, it did to me, sometimes you just need to accept we don't have the answers, and just ask.

I would not consider religion foolish, I just found it to be something I could no longer reconcile with reality as I gained new knowledge. I fully understand why people believe in religion and the psychology behind the same.

Religion may be the best thing for some people, if it makes them a truly better person and allows them to cope with life better. The fact is, many simply can't buy into it and they do just fine without it.

 

[seekingsolace]

I would not consider religion foolish, I just found it to be something I could no longer reconcile with reality as I gained new knowledge. I fully understand why people believe in religion and the psychology behind the same.

Religion may be the best thing for some people, if it makes them a truly better person and allows them to cope with life better. The fact is, many simply can't buy into it and they do just fine without it.

I don't think people become believers to cope with life better, although many do through becoming so.

Every person seeks some kind of purpose or meaning to life, as it has been through all ages. I prefer the notion that our universe was not an accident. Many people dream of a world without evil, I don't think that will ever happen with human intervention.

 

[nonbeliever314]

It's funny how God has to go through all this stuff to get people to be saved, but yet there are still billions of people who are not. Seems like Satan has the upper hand. He has every non Christian and non believer damned, seems like God didn't do a good job. It would have probably been better to do everything he did thousands of years ago now. It would have definitely had a greater impact this day in age, rather than intervening a ton a really long time ago. But then again, nowadays, people who call themselves messiahs are nuts, and the only people who I've seen on video walk on water or fly are magicians. Interesting......

 

[seekingsolace]

It's funny how God has to go through all this stuff to get people to be saved, but yet there are still billions of people who are not. Seems like Satan has the upper hand. He has every non Christian and non believer damned, seems like God didn't do a good job. It would have probably been better to do everything he did thousands of years ago now. It would have definitely had a greater impact this day in age, rather than intervening a ton a really long time ago. But then again, nowadays, people who call themselves messiahs are nuts, and the only people who I've seen on video walk on water or fly are magicians. Interesting......

How can our finite knowledge understand a divine purpose? Do you not appreciate the good more after receiving the bad? Does a benevolent God not required patience, love, mercy and justice? it may seem like God doesn't see, but every tear will have it's justice and reward.

 

[bhsmte]

I don't think people become believers to cope with life better, although many do through becoming so.

Every person seeks some kind of purpose or meaning to life, as it has been through all ages. I prefer the notion that our universe was not an accident. Many people dream of a world without evil, I don't think that will ever happen with human intervention.

You just said it. You prefer a universe that was not an accident, so it must be uncomfortable for you to contemplate that a God was not behind the universe. So, you are religious, because it allows you to cope with the apparent question in a way that brings you comfort.

Nothing wrong with that and that is why it is called faith. As long as people of faith can respect that some people will disagree with them, and the faith does not require them to deny obvious well evidenced realities, go for it.