Why are there religious people?

[Archaeopteryx]

Well, the plain atheist here that don't see themselves as promoting godless ideals as something that they believe so yes.

Drink! We're off to a good start.

The so called "New Atheist" aren't pretending to be neutral, they are publically, actively battling the value and values of religion.

And? So what? Why should they be neutral?

 

[TheBarrd]

Drink! We're off to a good start.



And? So what? Why should they be neutral?

Are you neutral, Archaeopteryx?
Why or why not?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Are you neutral, Archaeopteryx?
Why or why not?

It depends on the issue. As an example, when creationists try to poison the school curriculum, no, I am not neutral.

 

[TheBarrd]

It depends on the issue. As an example, when creationists try to poison the school curriculum, no, I am not neutral.

On that we are agreed. However, I see no harm in allowing kids to consider all possibilities. Can't we trust our kids to decide for themselves what they believe?
Or are you one of those athiests who is terrified that if his kid is exposed to religion that he will grow up to be the Pope?

 

[TheBarrd]

As a Christian, I am not the least bit afraid that my kids might be exposed to atheism.
They have an uncle (my kid brother) who is an atheist.
They think he is rather ridiculous...

 

[Archaeopteryx]

On that we are agreed. However, I see no harm in allowing kids to consider all possibilities. Can't we trust our kids to decide for themselves what they believe?
Or are you one of those athiests who is terrified that if his kid is exposed to religion that he will grow up to be the Pope?

Do most religious parents trust kids to decide for themselves, or they raise their children to follow their religion?

 

[TheBarrd]

Some parents do try to shove their religion down their kids' throats, unfortunately.
We see the results of that every day, don't we? So many of the angry young atheists I have spoken with are angry for this very reason. Their atheism seems to be more of a rebellion against that early "indoctrination" than anything else.

Most religious parents, however, while they do teach their kids what they believe, leave it to the kid to decide for himself. We do understand that forced faith is not real faith at all. We expose him to our faith, trusting him to our God...and most of the time, the kid chooses God.
I have seven kids, and seventeen grandkids, and every single one of them is a Christian. I also have three great grandkids, and another "on the way". It's a little early to tell yet...although one little boy does insist that his momma hear his prayers at bedtime. Of course, this is probably a ploy to get to stay up later...

What about atheist parents? Do atheist parents trust their kids to decide for themselves, or do they raise their children to follow their...uh...non-religion?
Sorry, I don't have a better term.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Some parents do try to shove their religion down their kids' throats, unfortunately.
We see the results of that every day, don't we? So many of the angry young atheists I have spoken with are angry for this very reason. Their atheism seems to be more of a rebellion against that early "indoctrination" than anything else.

Or maybe they seriously considered the doctrines they were taught to believe and found that there was no reason to believe said doctrines? To call it "rebellion" is to miss the point entirely.

Most religious parents, however, while they do teach their kids what they believe, leave it to the kid to decide for himself. We do understand that forced faith is not real faith at all. We expose him to our faith, trusting him to our God...and most of the time, the kid chooses God.
I have seven kids, and seventeen grandkids, and every single one of them is a Christian. I also have three great grandkids, and another "on the way". It's a little early to tell yet...although one little boy does insist that his momma hear his prayers at bedtime. Of course, this is probably a ploy to get to stay up later...

What about atheist parents? Do atheist parents trust their kids to decide for themselves, or do they raise their children to follow their...uh...non-religion?
Sorry, I don't have a better term.

I don't know, I'm not a parent.

 

[Colter]

Drink! We're off to a good start.



And? So what? Why should they be neutral?

I didn't say Atheist should not be allowed to preach their beliefs, we were discussing the claim that Atheism isn't a belief that is promoted.

You don't have to remain neutral as some do, in fact you are not neutral, you now promote godless ideals. That is the point.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I didn't say Atheist should not be allowed to preach their beliefs, we were discussing the claim that Atheism isn't a belief that is promoted.

You don't have to remain neutral as some do, in fact you are not neutral, you now promote godless ideals. That is the point.

"Godless ideals" There you go again...

 

[Colter]

"Godless ideals" There you go again...

I get that term from the concept of what sin is from the UB:

Forgiveness of Sin​

"Ancient man only attained consciousness of favor with God through sacrifice. Modern man must develop new techniques of achieving the self-consciousness of salvation. The consciousness of sin persists in the mortal mind, but the thought patterns of salvation therefrom have become outworn and antiquated. The reality of the spiritual need persists, but intellectual progress has destroyed the olden ways of securing peace and consolation for mind and soul.

Sin must be redefined as deliberate disloyalty to Deity. There are degrees of disloyalty: the partial loyalty of indecision; the divided loyalty of confliction; the dying loyalty of indifference; and the death of loyalty exhibited in devotion to godless ideals.

The sense or feeling of guilt is the consciousness of the violation of the mores; it is not necessarily sin. There is no real sin in the absence of conscious disloyalty to Deity.

The possibility of the recognition of the sense of guilt is a badge of transcendent distinction for mankind. It does not mark man as mean but rather sets him apart as a creature of potential greatness and ever-ascending glory. Such a sense of unworthiness is the initial stimulus that should lead quickly and surely to those faith conquests which translate the mortal mind to the superb levels of moral nobility, cosmic insight, and spiritual living; thus are all the meanings of human existence changed from the temporal to the eternal, and all values are elevated from the human to the divine.

The confession of sin is a manful repudiation of disloyalty, but it in no wise mitigates the time-space consequences of such disloyalty. But confession — sincere recognition of the nature of sin — is essential to religious growth and spiritual progress.

The forgiveness of sin by Deity is the renewal of loyalty relations following a period of the human consciousness of the lapse of such relations as the consequence of conscious rebellion. The forgiveness does not have to be sought, only received as the consciousness of re-establishment of loyalty relations between the creature and the Creator. And all the loyal sons of God are happy, service-loving, and ever-progressive in the Paradise ascent. UB 1955
​

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I get that term from the concept of what sin is from the UB:

Explains why it's so nebulous.

 

[Colter]

Explains why it's so nebulous.

I find it very helpful as religion tends to make all sorts of things sins that aren't. In fact Christians sometimes say that man is born dead. that we are helplessly sinful. That we have a sinful nature. The UB explains that man has an instinctual human nature, not necessarily sinful. Sin is to know the will of God yet choose otherwise. Evil is ignorance of transgressing Gods will. Iniquity is the knowing, persistent transgression of the divine will.

 

[True Scotsman]

Many intellectuals of yesteryear used to predict that as western culture became more educated and more intelligent that religion would die off - especially Christianity. The assumption was that there were religious people because of a lack of education and low intelligence.

But they were wrong. All of these predictions have always been wrong.

There are equally brilliant, educated, and intelligent people who are both atheists and religious. The difference doesn't seem to be one of education or intelligence. So what is the difference?

Why are there religious people? Christianity has an answer, but what's the secular answer?

I think there are two main reasons. First, almost everyone is brought up in some kind of religion.

Second, no one can live without some kind of philosophy and religion provides a canned, turnkey philosophy. All one has to do is accept it and this is made easier by the fact that most of those around us have accepted it and we don't want to go against the flow. There is a great deal of social pressure to be religious.

 

[Albion]

It depends on the issue. As an example, when creationists try to poison the school curriculum, no, I am not neutral.

Is it possible to poison already-poisoned water?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Is it possible to poison already-poisoned water?

Where is creationism already part of the school curriculum?

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Where is creationism already part of the school curriculum?

I think he meant the education system already sucking

 

[TheBarrd]

Or maybe they seriously considered the doctrines they were taught to believe and found that there was no reason to believe said doctrines? To call it "rebellion" is to miss the point entirely.

Every kid sooner or later gets to a time when he starts trying to find his own identity, separate from his parents. It can be a very trying time for all involved.
And yes...often it is rebellion. The kid begins to question his faith...it is natural and right that he should do so. But the parents panic, and redouble their efforts to keep their precious progeny on the "straight and narrow". The kid becomes more and more frustrated...yeah. I've met a great many atheists who tell a similar tale. They didn't walk away so much as they were pushed away by their well meaning family. Most of these people do not even know the "doctrines" they can't find a reason to believe. And to be fair, neither do most of the "Christians" they have been exposed to, who had their belief spoon fed to them from behind a pulpit.
Most of the time this could all have been avoided if the parents had bothered to actually read their Bible and make themselves ready to sit down and explore their childrens' questions with them.
Kids know a phony when they see one....

I don't know, I'm not a parent.

I didn't think so. Young yet, aren't you?

 

[TheBarrd]

Is it possible to poison already-poisoned water?

Good point, Albion.
I'm afraid it may be too late...

 

[bhsmte]

Every kid sooner or later gets to a time when he starts trying to find his own identity, separate from his parents. It can be a very trying time for all involved.
And yes...often it is rebellion. The kid begins to question his faith...it is natural and right that he should do so. But the parents panic, and redouble their efforts to keep their precious progeny on the "straight and narrow". The kid becomes more and more frustrated...yeah. I've met a great many atheists who tell a similar tale. They didn't walk away so much as they were pushed away by their well meaning family. Most of these people do not even know the "doctrines" they can't find a reason to believe. And to be fair, neither do most of the "Christians" they have been exposed to, who had their belief spoon fed to them from behind a pulpit.
Most of the time this could all have been avoided if the parents had bothered to actually read their Bible and make themselves ready to sit down and explore their childrens' questions with them.
Kids know a phony when they see one....



I didn't think so. Young yet, aren't you?

Here is an interesting accumulation of information from young people who leave the church and the main reasons they are leaving.

https://www.barna.org/teens-next-gen-articles/528-six-reasons-young-christians-leave-church