Why are there religious people?

[TillICollapse]

I can't recall the last time a couple of older female atheists came to my door on a Saturday morning to share the "bad news" with me lol. Seriously though...

If something like this hasn't been made already as a skit and thrown up on Youtube, I wanna see it made lol.

 

[jacknife]

 

[variant]

Many intellectuals of yesteryear used to predict that as western culture became more educated and more intelligent that religion would die off - especially Christianity. The assumption was that there were religious people because of a lack of education and low intelligence.

But they were wrong. All of these predictions have always been wrong.

Because religion is an idea that appeals to people, fulfilling their psychological needs.

There are equally brilliant, educated, and intelligent people who are both atheists and religious. The difference doesn't seem to be one of education or intelligence. So what is the difference?

Why are there religious people? Christianity has an answer, but what's the secular answer?

Raw intelligence isn't the issue (although it is related), some people are willing to start with their conclusion as set and try to justify to fulfill their set psychological needs and others are not.

What you will find with the intelligent religious is that they have more complicated/convoluted systems for justifying their beliefs.

 

[TillICollapse]

Naw I wanna see live action, with chicks

 

[TillICollapse]

<Snip>

Thought I would toss in my fav atheist meme ...

 

[Davian]

I agree with keeping things such as young earth creationism out of class rooms in public school as well as unproven scientic theories presented as fact.

You have the right to promote your own unsubstantiated beliefs.

This thread is about your unsubstantiated beliefs. Why are there religious people when their beliefs are unsubstantiated?

 

[TheBarrd]

There are many more books on the same subjects, from the same times, many of which were not considered for inclusion in the standard Protestant Bible. Some of these works, for example from the times of the early church fathers ... were quoted heavily by them, some arguably considered scripture ... yet not included. So from one perspective, the Bible is cherry picked. And to say it all hangs together, is debatable even amongst believers.

Actually ... there have been estimated over a million cuneiform writings that have been found and excavated (tablets, cylinder seals, etc) which predate the oldest scriptures in the Bible from what I understand (i.e. the Enuma Elish) ... of which out of that number, only something like 5% - 10% have been translated ? I've always wondered what the translation of some of them might reveal about some of the scriptural accounts and if it would change any POV on such things.

Actually, you and I are in agreement here. I am an avid reader...I've read quite a few of The Dead Sea Scrolls and several books from the Nag Hammadi Library.
I've learned quite a bit that I didn't know before.

Yes my tongue

Okay out of those points you brought up ... I'll ask one: do you have any evidence of the existence of "sin" ? I'm not talking about pointing to someone's actions and saying they are sinful, rather, the existence of "sin". Any evidence that would distinguish it ?

Lots of people say that sin is disobedience to God.
I have a different definition...well, sorta.
Sin is what causes harm. Yes, I believe that disobeying God causes harm...but I think the real issue is the harm.
To intentionally cause harm, or even carelessly cause harm...that is the essence of sin.

Makes me happy to know your dad was loved

Me, too. Life is too short not to let the people we love know that they are loved...if you can follow all of that...

 

[TillICollapse]

Actually, you and I are in agreement here. I am an avid reader...I've read quite a few of The Dead Sea Scrolls and several books from the Nag Hammadi Library.
I've learned quite a bit that I didn't know before.








Lots of people say that sin is disobedience to God.
I have a different definition...well, sorta.
Sin is what causes harm. Yes, I believe that disobeying God causes harm...but I think the real issue is the harm.
To intentionally cause harm, or even carelessly cause harm...that is the essence of sin.

Thanks so far for the convo To keep us from a circular convo, I'll stop with the questions

Me, too. Life is too short not to let the people we love know that they are loved...if you can follow all of that...

Yes I can follow that. I live my life that way, and always have thus far. I've gone, almost literally, to the ends of the earth for those I love and care about, and always let them know. No regrets

 

[TheBarrd]

Thanks so far for the convo To keep us from a circular convo, I'll stop with the questions

Dear man, I certainly do not mind your questions. I enjoy talking about my faith.
I enjoyed our conversation very much, and I do hope we will talk again sometime.
I am delighted to find an atheist who is not telling me about pink unicorns or leprechauns...or "skydaddies"...
But who is a gentleman who listens to what I have to say, politely.
Thank you very much for that.

Yes I can follow that. I live my life that way, and always have thus far. I've gone, almost literally, to the ends of the earth for those I love and care about, and always let them know. No regrets

Are you quite sure you are not a closet Christian?
LOL, just kidding!

 

[TillICollapse]

Dear man, I certainly do not mind your questions. I enjoy talking about my faith.
I enjoyed our conversation very much, and I do hope we will talk again sometime.
I am delighted to find an atheist who is not telling me about pink unicorns or leprechauns...or "skydaddies"...
But who is a gentleman who listens to what I have to say, politely.
Thank you very much for that.

Are you quite sure you are not a closet Christian?
LOL, just kidding!

 

[Archaeopteryx]

In the case of Archaeopteryx he once had faith on this forum but at some point decided to work against the idea of God.

See. This is why I don't take your posts seriously anymore. Bad manners, among other things.

It does seem true though that the gift of faith is grace, not so much a decision but forsaking the faith gift and working against God is a decision. There is nothing wrong with doubts per say, but Atheism is doubt made into a religious belief system.

No, it hasn't.

 

[Colter]

I can't recall the last time a couple of older female atheists came to my door on a Saturday morning to share the "bad news" with me lol. Seriously though...

If what you're saying was true Colter, you wouldn't have to try to construct rational arguments to defend it...it would just be obvious to everyone. The mere fact that you have to try to convince people that atheism is a "religion" or "dogmatic" or is being "promoted" just goes to show it's none of those things. Any belief system that has those characteristics is blatantly obvious to all...it tries to be.

You are assuming that people are honest, you yourself pointed out above that it's againt the forum rules to promote atheism so I'm beginning to understand why the Atheist here are so defensive about calling the promotion of Atheism a movment, belief or form of doctrine.

The New Atheism has no problem being honest about what they are doing.

"New Atheism is a social and political movement in favour of atheism and secularism promoted by a collection of modern atheist writers who have advocated the view that "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument"​

New Atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Colter]

See. This is why I don't take your posts seriously anymore. Bad manners, among other things.



No, it hasn't.

Like a soccer match, rolling around on the ground faking injury.

For someone that you claim not to take seriously, you sure do reply to me a lot. I think you do take me seriously, I've spoken truth to you and that's what bothers you.

 

[quatona]

You are assuming that people are honest, you yourself pointed out above that it's againt the forum rules to promote atheism so I'm beginning to understand why the Atheist here are so defensive about calling the promotion of Atheism a movment, belief or form of doctrine.

The New Atheism has no problem being honest about what they are doing.

"New Atheism is a social and political movement in favour of atheism and secularism promoted by a collection of modern atheist writers who have advocated the view that "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument"​

New Atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

#
So you feel that "New Atheism" is honest about what they are doing, and you feel that plain atheism isn´t?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Like a soccer match, rolling around on the ground faking injury.

For someone that you claim not to take seriously, you sure do reply to me a lot.

I reply to a lot of people, in case you haven't noticed. You're not special.

I think you do take me seriously, I've spoken truth to you and that's what bothers you.

Oh my. You do think you're special. Oh dear, how to break it to you...

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You are assuming that people are honest, you yourself pointed out above that it's againt the forum rules to promote atheism so I'm beginning to understand why the Atheist here are so defensive about calling the promotion of Atheism a movment, belief or form of doctrine.

The New Atheism has no problem being honest about what they are doing.

"New Atheism is a social and political movement in favour of atheism and secularism promoted by a collection of modern atheist writers who have advocated the view that "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument"​

New Atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Religion is not immune from criticism, so I don't understand why this is considered problematic.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Every time Colter says "godless lifestyle" or "godless ideals" or "doctrines of doubt":

 

[Archaeopteryx]

#
So you feel that "New Atheism" is honest about what they are doing, and you feel that plain atheism isn´t?

He could just ask us about our motivations? In fact, if I recall correctly, this conversation already took place, and we've already told him our motivations. The problem is that he won't accept them. In his mind, we have to have some nefarious plot in the works.

 

[Colter]

#
So you feel that "New Atheism" is honest about what they are doing, and you feel that plain atheism isn´t?

Well, the plain atheist here that don't see themselves as promoting godless ideals as something that they believe, yes. The so called "New Atheist" aren't pretending to be neutral, they are publically, actively battling the value and values of religion.

 

[Colter]

Every time Colter says "godless lifestyle" or "godless ideals" or "doctrines of doubt":

April 28, 2015 was 30 years of continuous sobriety and clean from drugs for me by depending on what Atheist call "the God delusion."