Look, stop throwing around loaded words like "dogma". Most Protestant churches don't even recognize dogmas in the sense you are referring to.
Why should I stop using a word that fits the situation I'm describing very well?
No, you will not be judged by your understanding of doctrines or dogma. That's just not true. Doctrine in churches exists to shape and instruct, not to be an end in itself.
Where did I say that you will be judged by your
understanding of dogma? I said that you will be judged on whether you
believe the dogma, not whether it makes sense to you or not. I've heard some Christians say that they don't fully understand what they believe; they agree that parts of it don't make sense, but they believe regardless because that is what they are ultimately judged on.
I suppose you could invoke "Faith seeking understanding" at this point. Incidentally, that was my high school's motto, and I took it rather seriously. In seeking understanding, however, I found that many aspects of the faith did not make sense and could not be justified.
In one ear, out the other I guess.
I'm simply calling it as I see it.
Of course. Christians don't agree on many things. That hardly means all Christians believe what you say they do.
Did I say
all Christians? I don't recall saying that in this conversation. As I noted earlier, I'm struck by the number of Christians who I talk to who hold what you consider to be a caricature of Christianity. Perhaps you think they're beneath you, theologically speaking, but unless you can somehow show that to be the case, you're just behaving snobbishly.
And that probably makes you even more embittered.
On what do you base this conclusion?
But it doesn't make you an expert on Christian beliefs anymore than having a driver's license makes you a great driver.
Did I claim expertise in Christian theology? No, I don't recall doing so, even with my Christian background. Nevertheless, I know enough to make the claims I do, aware that there are Christians who hold the beliefs I claim they hold. Are my comments universally applicable to all Christians? No, not necessarily, but some are.
No, of course not, but those other positions you are criticizing about are actually the minority, looking at the broad span of Christian beliefs and history. The majority of the Christians in the world are Roman Catholic, and the second-largest Christian body is Eastern Orthodox, followed by the Anglican Communion. None of the characterizations you have made really fit the beliefs and attitudes of those churches.
I'm not talking to
the churches, I'm talking
with believers. If I wanted to discuss the finer points of official doctrine I would consult the relevant documents and go from there. Not only is that boring, but it doesn't tell me what believers actually believe. The Catholic church has an official position on various issues, but this position doesn't always align with what practicing Catholics actually believe with regard to those issues. There are Catholics who strictly adhere to the church's official position on same-sex marriage, but there are also many Catholics who do not. (Whether they are 'good' Catholics or not is a discussion for the Catholic church).
I'm interested in having a conversation with living believers, not in reading rapidly ossifying church texts that may or may not reflect the actual beliefs of believers. I find it strange that, on the one hand, you want me to acknowledge the diversity of thought in Christianity, but on the other, you seem to want me to address only the most up-to-date, official and ostensibly sophisticated theological ideas. Doing the former has taught me that the latter isn't necessarily what people believe in practice.
Sorry I don't take forums too seriously, after all people often just mess around and misquote etc for kicks and giggles.
