Is Scripture MISSING Dogmas? (2)

[Root of Jesse]

We are not talking about seven pieces of a skull which could help comprise a single skull. There are at least three complete skulls and at least four pieces of other skulls some of which are of the same portions of the skull. Therefore, we have an example of a doctrine developed beyond a scriptural basis which defies human understanding and requires suspension of all logic to believe.

There's no dogma about this, and this is a thread about dogmas.

You also raise the issus of the True Cross, and if you like we can go down that road, as well.

Go on down it if you want. I know the saying "if you put together all the pieces..." but that's simply incorrect-there's not that many pieces, but you know even a splinter of the True Cross could be called a relic of the True Cross...

The fact is that, like the Marian Dogmas, these things evolved over time to the point where they have taken on a life of their own and have attracted their devotees.

The doctrine of the Trinity also evolved over time, but the essence of it was there from the beginning, same as the Marian dogmas.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yep, and I can find it also in your mass. Following its consecration, if a spectroscopic analysis is done of it it will be discovered that it is bread and does not contain a single molecule of human DNA. Of course, you know this as well as anyone else. The "accident" of the bread remains. We have nothing whatsoever other than blind faith to consider it to be anything other than bread, do we?

If you did a "spectroscopic analysis" or a DNA sample of Christ, would it prove he's divine?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Really now? I suppose the Inquisition was a sweet and gentle RCIA class.

The Inquisition was formed to find out if people who converted to Catholicism from Judaism or Islam were real converts or not. It did not force any conversions. While sometimes using torture to find out the answer to the question, usually it was quite benign. In fact, many people committed heresies in order to escape state-sponsored punishment in favor of Inquisition punishment, which was usually incarceration, seldom more.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Or if I contradict the Bible the culpability is on me. Yet, my point is that the Magisterium is not greater than the Bible --and you would agree on that-- and it doesn't stop people from disagreeing. It's only that instead on disagreeing on what Romans 12 mean (or whatever) you disagree on what the Dei Verbum means or if Gaudium et Spes is authoritative or not or even if the pope is a real pope or not (the sedevacantist guys) and so on.

Right. The Magisterium is not greater than the Bible, it is on par. Nothing stops people from disagreeing, short of playing brinksmanship with hell. That is their choice, just as disobeying God was Eve's choice, and Adam's.

No problem. See my signature.



The same happened in Western Christianity before the definition of Transubstantiation as dogma --. And for the individual priest having his particular (or no) theory about the Sacramente does not stop Grace from doing what Grace loves to do. That said, there are limits within Anglican orthodoxy even if our church discipline can be, sadly, too relaxed at times.

Transubstantiation is a word attempting to describe what happens every time we hold Mass. It doesn't do a good job, but describing things of God is hard.

 

[bbbbbbb]

This is true, but that doesn't mean it's a Protestant/Catholic issue. We believe all those properly baptized are "in the Church."

But, as you know, that is no guarantee of their salvation. Simply being "in the (Catholic) Church" merely means than an individual is identified as being a Catholic, not that they will be saved.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If you did a "spectroscopic analysis" or a DNA sample of Christ, would it prove he's divine?

It would definitely prove that He is human, putting to rest the Gnostic heresy (as well as a few others) for all time. It would also prove that he is not composed of molecules of bread and wine.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It's no surprise that you'd have that opinion. It's purpose was to answer the questions presented, and it did just that.

That is a huge understatement. It certainly did answer the questions presented.

 

[fhansen]

IMO the Council of Trent was the greatest mistake ever made by the RCC. Its purpose was to create an unbridgable chasm between it and all other Christian bodies, especially Protestant bodies of believers.

The chasm was created by the heretical views of the Reformers. Trent necessarily called it for what it was. The council identified Reformer errors, and simultaneously set forth and solidified correct Christian doctrine. It condemned no one, but rather anathematized-shunned-those who persisted in promogulating false gospels.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The chasm was created by the heretical views of the Reformers. Trent necessarily called it for what it was. The council identified Reformer errors, and simultaneously set forth and solidified correct Christian doctrine. It condemned no one, but rather anathematized-shunned-those who persisted in promogulating false gospels.

Did I say that it condemned anyone? I did say it created an unbridgeable chasm between the Catholic Church and all other Christian bodies, especially Protestant churches.

 

[mluiesp]

Hi all. Let's cool down a bit. This thread is becoming a new version of "my daddy's bigger than yours".

 

[concretecamper]

I did say it created an unbridgeable chasm between the Catholic Church and all other Christian bodies, especially Protestant churches.

Anyone can become a member of His Church....it is easy

 

[Rick Otto]

Anyone can become a member of His Church....it is easy

That's right. All it takes is His decision to make it so, and Eph 1:4 tells us when He decided.

 

[Root of Jesse]

What you actually mean is that you're all consuming each other. Everyone here knows that the body of Christ is the church of God.



As if you'd know that. Is there any end of your arrogance in thinking that you're the only assembly who has Christ?

No, I don't mean that. I mean what I said.

I didn't quantify how much truth, because it's impossible to know someone's heart. And I didn't say we're the only 'assembly' who has Christ, nor do I believe that. What I believe, and what my Church teaches, is that EVERY religion on earth has some Truth. Even those that don't know Christ. Obviously Christians have much more of the Truth than non-Christians. Even Catholics, whose religion was given the entire deposit of faith by Christ, don't all have the whole Truth, if they did, they'd be perfect. What I do not believe is that one version of Christianity is as good as another, and I believe, after careful discernment, that the Catholic Church has the entire deposit of faith given by Christ. That's not to say I'm better, because I fail miserably at living up to His call.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Hi all. Let's cool down a bit. This thread is becoming a new version of "my daddy's bigger than yours".

It's true, in terms of numbers. I'm not insinuating that "Catholics are better than anyone else." That's been read into what I've said.

 

[Rick Otto]

Did the magesterium approve this information, or is it just non-authoritative scientists?

Galileo should have gotten such respect.
can·ni·bal·ism
\ˈka-nə-bə-ˌli-zəm\
noun
1 :the usually ritualistic eating of human flesh by a human being.

Just the facts.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Anyone can become a member of His Church....it is easy

I agree. I am a member of His Church as, I believe, are all who post here at CF, excepting those on the Unorthodox board.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That's right. All it takes is His decision to make it so, and Eph 1:4 tells us when He decided.

 

[Souldier]

Here is an observation i have made. Although the scripture says that we need no teacher, we dont actually believe it. If anyone tries to suggest that we dont need a teacher we think they are nuts, or an apostate/heretic, or some kind od cult member. I know because i use to think like that myself, so i know what others are thinking about this. Its quite possible to misuse that scripture to suggest that we dont need scripture to guide us and that is heresy as far as im concerned, or at least its a misunderstanding that needs corrected, at the least.


However have we actually ever wondered why Christ said he would teach us all things? Why God said he would put His laws in our hearts and minds? Why John says we need no teacher?

I believe this refers to liberty in the spirit. I myself now believe this is very possible and is to be coveted above any other religious thing we have.

 

[concretecamper]

That's right. All it takes is His decision to make it so, and Eph 1:4 tells us when He decided.

Yes, it is pretty clear one party has chosen.

 

[fhansen]

Here is an observation i have made. Although the scripture says that we need no teacher, we dont actually believe it. If anyone tries to suggest that we dont need a teacher we think they are nuts, or an apostate/heretic, or some kind od cult member. I know because i use to think like that myself, so i know what others are thinking about this. Its quite possible to misuse that scripture to suggest that we dont need scripture to guide us and that is heresy as far as im concerned, or at least its a misunderstanding that needs corrected, at the least.


However have we actually ever wondered why Christ said he would teach us all things? Why God said he would put His laws in our hearts and minds? Why John says we need no teacher?

I believe this refers to liberty in the spirit. I myself now believe this is very possible and is to be coveted above any other religious thing we have.

Holiness only becomes authentic to the extent that we freely, willingly love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. This is the purpose and goal of man's liberty, which God nonetheless will not interfere with-or else it couldn't be liberty at all. The purpose of grace, of God's indwelling, of communion with Him, is growth in this knowledge of and relationship with God which transforms us into His image. Teachers, such as Philip with the Eunuch or others who spread the good news, implant the seed, God's word, which is intended to sprout into a fully blossomed plant. It generally needs to be watered, nurtured, and guided as well.

"...for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” Matt 10:13-15

Ultimately, though no man can teach us the things of God. The teaching (doctrine and dogma) are "head-knowledge", while the understanding comes from Him, or it doesn't come at all.