Hyper grace and the great lie

[BryanW92]

Question about predestination . do you feel you were predestined or are among a few selected for Gods grace?

That's a false argument because no Calvinist ever says, "a selected few". We don't claim to know how many are in the Elect. That "select few" is a concept hung on Calvinism by its opponents. We assume that anyone who claims to be Christian, saved, sanctified, or the Elect probably is just that. It isn't our place to decide, and those who have not been regenerated by grace usually wouldn't pretend to something that they consider to be as repugnant as a Christian.

 

[lori milne]

That's a false argument because no Calvinist ever says, "a selected few". We don't claim to know how many are in the Elect. That "select few" is a concept hung on Calvinism by its opponents. We assume that anyone who claims to be Christian, saved, sanctified, or the Elect probably is just that. It isn't our place to decide, and those who have not been regenerated by grace usually wouldn't pretend to something that they consider to be as repugnant as a Christian.

Did Jesus shed his blood for everyone including the anti Christ ?
Or was it only for the called the elect a few
Not that you would no who that was or absurdly enough how many

 

[BryanW92]

Did Jesus shed his blood for everyone including the anti Christ ?
Or was it only for the called the elect a few
Not that you would no who that was or absurdly enough how many

We say that his work on the cross was efficient for the Elect and sufficient for everyone else. So, yes, he shed his blood for all. But not all will be capable of taking advantage of it. We don't know how many or who that is.

 

[BryanW92]

Did Jesus shed his blood for everyone including the anti Christ ?
Or was it only for the called the elect a few
Not that you would no who that was or absurdly enough how many

Again, no one is calling the Elect a "few" except you. Using "few" changes the tone of the discussion.

 

[lori milne]

So your calling it an elect!!
I'm just sifting through verbiage
To communicate clearly

 

[BryanW92]

So your calling it an elect!!
I'm just sifting through verbiage
To communicate clearly

Yes I am. That's the term we use and have always used--even before Calvin.

 

[lori milne]

Yes I am. That's the term we use and have always used--even before Calvin.

If Calvin didn't start Calvinism who did ?

do you feel the "elect" have no ability to sin because Gods grace makes them not want to choose to sin ?

 

[lori milne]

Btw I'm not an opposing denomination like arminiasm
Just on a search for ware hyper grace originated from really :) so far it points to Calvinism but still lot sure.

 

[BryanW92]

If Calvin didn't start Calvinism who did ?

do you feel the "elect" have no ability to sin because Gods grace makes them not want to choose to sin ?

Calvinism is just way of describing a certain interpretation of what the bible says. The early church (not necessarily the Acts 2 church, but after that) certainly believed most of what we call Calvinism today. In fact, the first free will movement was started by Pelagius and his disciple Caelestius and it didn't end well for them.

The Elect do sin, just as everyone sins. It is our nature to sin, even with grace. Grace and the Holy Spirit just serve to convict us in our sins so that we know what we did. Doesn't stop us from doing it again, but creates awareness so we can know how bad we need Christ. In the end, we cannot be saved through our own perfection, which is God's only acceptable standard. We have to be washed in the blood of Christ and have his perfect life imputed to us so we can present that as if it were our own. That is the work on the cross. Its not hyper-grace though. It's just grace. I'm not even sure what hyper-grace is.

 

[lori milne]

It's a once saved always saved theology no one can snatch him out off His hand, hence no free will.

 

[BryanW92]

I just read back to the start of the thread and read your description of hyper-grace. If you believe that only the perfect sinless people are saved, then 100% of us will be disappointed one day. No one can be sinless, except the one perfect human, who was also God.

Yes, there must be accountability even on Earth since a person who has grace should not want to sin and we should hold each other to the highest standards. But, we also have to hold each other's hands when we fail to be perfect...and we're going to be doing a lot of that if we're honest with each other.

It's not hyper-grace. It's just grace, but it's grace from the Creator of the universe...and that's amazing grace, awesome grace, and totally undeserved and unearned grace.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Yes if we could truly feel all the Love God has for us I don't think we could actually stop worshiping him warm feeling of unending Love unspeakable love is just an awesome and love feeling thought!
I was raised baptis and was spanked by my farther when I was bad he loved me after word and spoke to me if my wrong doings he to me was the best and strongest God fearing man I know!

My fear of God is not Him/God the fear is what I will loose if I walk away from him! And sin is a snare like Pharos heart with Moses, God mad it hard /
unreconcilable .
There is a point when you turn and there is no lite your in darkness and you forget so much of Gods grace and love like a man forgetting his own face!
My fear is what I can become with out Him.
I think it's neat to see every one have a special walk or different take on scripture cause it's the lesson there in or what ever

It is termed revisiting your baptism in the day the Spirit took hold of you. That memory never fades. It is a, key, to keep us strong when joy fades to regain faith that we and Abba are OK.

Yeah me too, Baptist raised under the whip so I get ya . Today you come to Non Denomination and some truths to the Spirit this one hopes you learn. The first, we hope, is that no man or woman can guide you in Spiritual thinking. This is Gods realm to teach you . In closing,
Love the trees
Love the bees
Love the people in their iniquities

Love the pain
In the end its gain
The promise of the Father is no distain. ....... Big ole countrified to ya, Lori.

God !!

 

[lori milne]

I agree accountability is helpful and required eve! I definitely don't believe we can be perfect but through Christ we can be ! cleaned spot free !! Amen!
in my heart every time I stumble if we fall back or draw away which isn't something i do anymore but we have repentance and forgiveness with the father but ultimately you grow stronger to turn from sin and not even want sin you want Christ.
At least that's my walk or take

 

[lori milne]

It is termed revisiting your baptism in the day the Spirit took hold of you. That memory never fades. It is a, key, to keep us strong when joy fades to regain faith that we and Abba are OK. Yeah me too, Baptist raised under the whip so I get ya . Today you come to Non Denomination and some truths to the Spirit this one hopes you learn. The first, we hope, is that no man or woman can guide you in Spiritual thinking. This is Gods realm to teach you . In closing, Love the trees Love the bees Love the people in their iniquities Love the pain In the end its gain The promise of the Father is no distain. ....... Big ole countrified to ya, Lori. God !!

Amen sister !!
God bless you're joy
It is your strength 😀

 

[lori milne]

Amen sister !! God bless you're joy It is your strength dde00

Made me smile for sure

 

[BryanW92]

It's a once saved always saved theology no one can snatch him out off His hand, hence no free will.

Calvinism is different from the OSAS of Baptists. OSAS implies a one-time salvation event, at a time and place chosen by the human, and a lifetime of non-accountability forever afterwards. OSAS implies that a single prayer will bring down holiness on a person from a God who was just sitting up in heaven waiting for the human's permission to save him or her. OSAS is the ultimate in free will, even more so than that of the classic Arminian/Wesleyan.

 

[lori milne]

Wow nice stuff
I'll have to come back and keep bugging you with new and fun questions !!
That is if you don't mind of corse

 

[BryanW92]

Wow nice stuff
I'll have to come back and keep bugging you with new and fun questions !!
That is if you don't mind of corse

Sure thing. I'd be glad to discuss things with you.

 

[lori milne]

Ware did OSAS originate from?

 

[BryanW92]

Ware did OSAS originate from?

It's an extreme version of the Calvinist concept of the Perseverance of the Saints. Both doctrines say the same thing, but the manifestation in believers is quite different. The Eternal Security (or Perseverance of the Saints) is an assurance that we won't get caught in the wrong part of the sin-repent cycle when we die. But it isn't a license to sin.

But, many people who claim OSAS (and they will actually and proudly say that they are "once saved, always saved" as opposed to the Calvinist who will call it PotS or ES) act like grace gives them a license to sin.

The distinction probably comes from the early 20th century when the baptists really took off in the US. The earlier holiness and evangelical movements in the US were mostly Methodist and they don't have anything like OSAS/PotS/ES in their doctrines. In fact, they believe that you can lose your salvation.