by turning your back on the rebellion from God or if you prefer choosing to believe in God, you have repented.
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Can we fall from grace ?
- Thread starter lori milne
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by turning your back on the rebellion from God or if you prefer choosing to believe in God, you have repented.
Repent from your sins is not choosing to believe In GOD It is to stop Sinning. Maybe your verbiage is different either way .thepromiseofgrace said:
to many people that rely on grace to get to heaven thinking we are sinners and we all fall short. This is a misguided view of what Paul's intention was with living by grace. The original meaning is favor in Gods eyes ! the first to receive grace was Noah genesis 6:8 because he followed the law and was a good seed! That meaning never changed through out the entire bible all the way to rev but Paul he changes it "for what ever reason" I won't get into that! But Jesus never used the word grace so how can we skip over the Lords teaching and just hold on to Paul's letters! Why are the churches only teaching feel good scripture ? The answers are in you and is when your search for truth starts ! If it's important to you look !! It's there! when you know better and want to be sure because you don't want to be wrong about something so darn important ! We are in different walks I don't judge you! I LOVE YOU! God bless Humbly your sister in Christ Jesus
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It was on his heart but scholars did say there were 7 commandments called noachide. One must remember, most of the world lives under the Universal Rainbow / Noahic Covenant (Gen.9:1-17). These basic human spiritual- rights in the Universal Covenant, govern a-l-l humanity, and they were also restated by Yahshua, and the Apostles ( Act.15:29).
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Hmmm, just thinking out loud, isn't Gen 9 after Noah found Grace in God's eyes. Not knowing the future law, Noah couldn't have worked for his Grace?
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Hi lori,
I find it a contradiction that you should say below,
but then you continue to insist you already have the answers, such as your quote below, for example.
But you still have not answered my questions about "habitual "sin, so the doctrine you're pushing here has no foundation unless you can detail from scripture what determines "Habitual" sin.
Is it 7x70 offences?
Does the length of one's life get taken into consideration in determining "habitual" sin?
Or are those with death bed salvation more blessed than those Christians who live for decades, having to dodge the "habitual" sin bullet?
I find it a contradiction that you should say below,
but then you continue to insist you already have the answers, such as your quote below, for example.
But you still have not answered my questions about "habitual "sin, so the doctrine you're pushing here has no foundation unless you can detail from scripture what determines "Habitual" sin.
Is it 7x70 offences?
Does the length of one's life get taken into consideration in determining "habitual" sin?
Or are those with death bed salvation more blessed than those Christians who live for decades, having to dodge the "habitual" sin bullet?
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hmmm the bible says we are saved by grace not works.
the bible says all fall short of the mark.
the bible says the only way to the father is through the son.
how do think my conclusions are wrong unless you are using some authority other than the bible.
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thepromiseofgrace said:
I'm using Jesus word in the bible or his teachings Mathew mark Luke Peter or John
Either one should cover ever thing I've referred to
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The only way we can "fall from grace" is if we go from a believer, to a non-believer, from having faith in God, to completely losing and abandoning that faith in God and become unbelieving, and due to that unbelief we stop going to God, stop praying, stop studying stop believing...
Essentially to stop believing, and abandon our faith in Christ altogether, this is not to say, having your faith tested but ultimately clinging to it and holding onto it through the trial, but just abandoning your faith altogether...
You "come as you are" sins and all, when you begin, and then as you draw closer to the Lord, and go to him often, he will begin the process of sanctification in you, if you backslide but don't abandon your faith and go to him and pray about it, he is faithful to forgive you, and say "OK, let's try this again...
The only way to fall from grace and lose your salvation is to abandon your belief and faith in God altogether, and give up on God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and become a non-believer...
God Bless!
Essentially to stop believing, and abandon our faith in Christ altogether, this is not to say, having your faith tested but ultimately clinging to it and holding onto it through the trial, but just abandoning your faith altogether...
You "come as you are" sins and all, when you begin, and then as you draw closer to the Lord, and go to him often, he will begin the process of sanctification in you, if you backslide but don't abandon your faith and go to him and pray about it, he is faithful to forgive you, and say "OK, let's try this again...
The only way to fall from grace and lose your salvation is to abandon your belief and faith in God altogether, and give up on God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and become a non-believer...
God Bless!
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Noblemen
Newbie
You cannot be unborn once born-again. Falling from grace as explained in Hebrews is to simply go back into the law. A shipwrecked believer will be restored in love by the father But never cease from being the bonafide offspring of God the father. The world is a schoolhouse ( Galatians chapter 4 ) and the father will use circumstances and situations always in the life of his children.
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Going back to the Law, thinking that by keeping it, you somehow "earn" grace or salvation, is one way to fall from grace, but so is also becoming an unbeliever...
But if you observe the law for the purposes of learning about Love, and to clean up your sins, for your own sake and well being and peace of mind, and having the good life (in not sinning), and for the sake of better learning how to be loving others, (Which causes you to negate God's mercy, grace, and salvation, the free gift) but not in thinking that by doing them, the Law, so that you can "earn" God's grace or salvation, Observing the law for the right reasons, does not cause you to lose your salvation or "fall from grace"
Jesus said he came not to abolish law, but to fulfill, and he said that the whole law and the prophets were wrapped up in (fulfilled) in the two that he gave, and if you examine the Ten commandments closely, you will see that the first four are about loving God, and the last six, about loving people...
God Bless!
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Galatians 5:22 -23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Perception simplified.
All those traits above are the manifestations in humanity in what the NT teaches as a whole. The bible is the final authority in...Truth, one either believes this or does not. The bible is also a guide to not be conformed but transformed (rom 12:2). The mind, where evil and goodness do warfare for choice of entertainment in humanity. Whole concepts go on in the mind especially in women but not limited too. Our minds do miraculous things in taking etherealness and manifesting it in hate or love = vessel. Like a soldier is trained from the bombardment of the ID/Psych, so must the believer be trained to change perception = transforming (Rom 12-2). Fruits of the Spirit/etherealness/thoughts/actions in love now brings this verse into play but not limited too ...
Heb. 4:12 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
That above is either believed or not and all of us fall short in sin of past , present and future that our thoughts and intents are not always pure/of Gods will. Faith in love/God (root word which comes first in the fruits) produces the rest of the verse in...Seasons/Sanctification. Years of pounding into the mind , soul and manifestations in actions of the body for this one ( It ever continues in perfection of love, for this one will choose my will over His at times).
Love as thought, manifestation , deed, grace, faith, joy, hope = a reciprocation in... belief, which means faith that once justified always justified is Grace in the gift of the baptism for the believer. Now what a believer does after justification is tied to the term of belief ...
Matt 18:6 But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
This verse is a personal verse that applies to this vessel and requires partial testimony. 12 years of age was Gods baptism for this vessel: Praises!! However, this one was taught in OT and it broke the mind (in part) to rebel and love sin in all manner of iniquities to the point of loosing moral compass. Being taught to "avoid" hell in fear on my own for one who claimed Jesus/Love/Selflessness NT did shatter the childs mind where guilt is made manifest in the particular religion this child was in. Momma, daddy, preacher were Gods to the child and trust absolute was not in question = Faith. Around 35 years lost in sin yet always justified, remember that CF family. No concept of love even to my own existence which was learned at 10 years of age that this one was born through lust of a sister, one married to the man the other not (yet these concepts have no meaning to a child, this is in retrospect format). This (I firmly believe) is part of the reason God chose this vessel at 12 to bestow justification, his gift, yet misunderstood by the child. A brother and sister this child learned of by the brother (same father, mothers are sisters) who bared all to a 10 year old child that sees no evil in it but the good news I have a brother and sister. These people are much older than me . Later in time, a week or month, this child hugs the sisters neck in pure love and is met in hate as he states he is glad to have a sister. Snap, this mind cracked at 10 that there is something wrong here yet the child has no understanding of what it is. To shorten this , love, even of self and God through miss taught religion had no meaning. That is a dangerous guy that has no respect of life , even his own, for no love is in him, for he hates his self for existing through pounding of the psych that his existence causes pain to others. Empathy is another amazement of the mind to read to the root of others. We all use it strongly to gauge with, like, moods, but not limited to that aspect alone. This one has a strong empathic ability and was left open too long in trying to figure where this child belonged and that too further broke the mind. Example : my sister saying she loves me yet flinches upon my touch that is read through empathic abilities. Weird aint it, lol. Yet truth to the root feelings inside her.
Sin is a teaching tool. Yet, God will not leave His saints there. It took a vessel that was God/love filled, to sit me down and teach change of perception and pound into this head to loose all taught methods by people who broke this mind to begin with (in sincere ignorance, bless them for their attempts.) and trust not even what he was saying but the book of truth. Fellowshipping with this God send that always backed what he was teaching with a verse, chapter or book always would say, "Don't believe me brother believe the Word/God/word made flesh/Love " as he sits there tapping a verse with his finger. This one had to lay it all at Gods feet to be remolded of the mind first where no people exist except self to listen to love... His love, so self love can be reacquired of the child that lost love to the world (self hate included/or listening to satan) and bask in it for it was God given to a broken mind that now produces a smile in joy that one can share in falling from grace in the extreme. No faith leaves the mind open to doubt.
in hopes and closing, use 1 Cor 4-7 to edify the mind in Godly love. That is how God sees us and His love endureth all, even falling from grace for a season to be beat down by the world. Faith in I Cor 4-7 produces the first verse in this post in manifestations out of us in reciprocation. Once again this seems off topic , yet is it ...
Perception simplified.
All those traits above are the manifestations in humanity in what the NT teaches as a whole. The bible is the final authority in...Truth, one either believes this or does not. The bible is also a guide to not be conformed but transformed (rom 12:2). The mind, where evil and goodness do warfare for choice of entertainment in humanity. Whole concepts go on in the mind especially in women but not limited too. Our minds do miraculous things in taking etherealness and manifesting it in hate or love = vessel. Like a soldier is trained from the bombardment of the ID/Psych, so must the believer be trained to change perception = transforming (Rom 12-2). Fruits of the Spirit/etherealness/thoughts/actions in love now brings this verse into play but not limited too ...
Heb. 4:12 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
That above is either believed or not and all of us fall short in sin of past , present and future that our thoughts and intents are not always pure/of Gods will. Faith in love/God (root word which comes first in the fruits) produces the rest of the verse in...Seasons/Sanctification. Years of pounding into the mind , soul and manifestations in actions of the body for this one ( It ever continues in perfection of love, for this one will choose my will over His at times).
Love as thought, manifestation , deed, grace, faith, joy, hope = a reciprocation in... belief, which means faith that once justified always justified is Grace in the gift of the baptism for the believer. Now what a believer does after justification is tied to the term of belief ...
Matt 18:6 But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
This verse is a personal verse that applies to this vessel and requires partial testimony. 12 years of age was Gods baptism for this vessel: Praises!! However, this one was taught in OT and it broke the mind (in part) to rebel and love sin in all manner of iniquities to the point of loosing moral compass. Being taught to "avoid" hell in fear on my own for one who claimed Jesus/Love/Selflessness NT did shatter the childs mind where guilt is made manifest in the particular religion this child was in. Momma, daddy, preacher were Gods to the child and trust absolute was not in question = Faith. Around 35 years lost in sin yet always justified, remember that CF family. No concept of love even to my own existence which was learned at 10 years of age that this one was born through lust of a sister, one married to the man the other not (yet these concepts have no meaning to a child, this is in retrospect format). This (I firmly believe) is part of the reason God chose this vessel at 12 to bestow justification, his gift, yet misunderstood by the child. A brother and sister this child learned of by the brother (same father, mothers are sisters) who bared all to a 10 year old child that sees no evil in it but the good news I have a brother and sister. These people are much older than me . Later in time, a week or month, this child hugs the sisters neck in pure love and is met in hate as he states he is glad to have a sister. Snap, this mind cracked at 10 that there is something wrong here yet the child has no understanding of what it is. To shorten this , love, even of self and God through miss taught religion had no meaning. That is a dangerous guy that has no respect of life , even his own, for no love is in him, for he hates his self for existing through pounding of the psych that his existence causes pain to others. Empathy is another amazement of the mind to read to the root of others. We all use it strongly to gauge with, like, moods, but not limited to that aspect alone. This one has a strong empathic ability and was left open too long in trying to figure where this child belonged and that too further broke the mind. Example : my sister saying she loves me yet flinches upon my touch that is read through empathic abilities. Weird aint it, lol. Yet truth to the root feelings inside her.
Sin is a teaching tool. Yet, God will not leave His saints there. It took a vessel that was God/love filled, to sit me down and teach change of perception and pound into this head to loose all taught methods by people who broke this mind to begin with (in sincere ignorance, bless them for their attempts.) and trust not even what he was saying but the book of truth. Fellowshipping with this God send that always backed what he was teaching with a verse, chapter or book always would say, "Don't believe me brother believe the Word/God/word made flesh/Love " as he sits there tapping a verse with his finger. This one had to lay it all at Gods feet to be remolded of the mind first where no people exist except self to listen to love... His love, so self love can be reacquired of the child that lost love to the world (self hate included/or listening to satan) and bask in it for it was God given to a broken mind that now produces a smile in joy that one can share in falling from grace in the extreme. No faith leaves the mind open to doubt.
in hopes and closing, use 1 Cor 4-7 to edify the mind in Godly love. That is how God sees us and His love endureth all, even falling from grace for a season to be beat down by the world. Faith in I Cor 4-7 produces the first verse in this post in manifestations out of us in reciprocation. Once again this seems off topic , yet is it ...
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R You saying to sin is good? Or bad?FanthatSpark said:
I do t understand a lot but what I did get out of what you said seems you missed the accountability portion?!
If you just leave out sone of the word and read the fluffy stuff that you can sin scripture and forget the rest then your just missing the point of Jesus teachings! And the entire bible. This is Timothy written by and or through Paul
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (NOTE through faith NOT grace is taught be Jesus faith to allow us to ACTUALLY turn from sin) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. (THIS IS literal perfect in works is not spot free through grace) ]2 Timothy‬ 3‬:13-17‬ KJV) The Entire bible is needed to live a sin free life not just a few versus that give you a sin free card That's cheep grace or hyper grace or Calvinistic Hope to enlighten not provoke in any way God bless
Hope I didn't completely miss your point?
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to sin is clearly bad, it will affect our peace, joy etc, it cannot though affect our salvation.
Allow me to use an example, a debt company has been chasing you for 1 million pounds, a friend says don't worry i will pay it, the debt is cleared, for some reason another letter falls on your doorstep, perhaps sent after the payment, saying pay this 1 million pounds or you will be jailed, you immediately panic, worry, pull your hair cry or whatever, yet if you stop to think you should know the debt was payed and the company are either in error or trying to take liberties.
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I agree with you 100%!! Once you are adopted into God's family you will never be un-adopted. The only way to fall from grace is to voluntarily and deliberately leave His family. Even then, as the parable of the prodigal son clearly teaches, if you want to come back God will welcome you with open arms.
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com7fy8
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Yes, a corrupt tree brings forth corrupt fruit. And Paul says if a person sows to his or her own flesh, the person shall of the flesh reap corruption. Galatians 6:7-8)
So, this corruption is a consequence of sinning . . . how we get into the evil spirit of disobedience if we sin. There is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," Paul says in Ephesians 2:2. There is emotional degradation in the wrong spirit which has us sin. So, even if God does not actually punish us, there is what we become inside ourselves because of disobeying God in the wrong spirit.
For example, when ones argue, they get degraded from love, and they get hurt.
"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," Paul says in Philippians 2:14-16.
So, by doing things without complaining and arguing we can become blameless, harmless, and without fault . . . even right "in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation". So, in this life, in this evil world, we can become "without fault", by becoming strong in love that keeps us from arguing and complaining. By becoming real in God's love, this works, now.
So, living free of sin has to do with how we become in God's love and how He has us loving. Instead of complaining, we appreciate and enjoy and thank our Father. And instead of arguing, we stay pleasant and in rest in God's love, and "submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21) "with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)
So, instead of worrying about if we could lose our salvation, stay busy with seeking and submitting to God for His correction (Hebrews 12:6-11) and how He has us loving (1 John 4:17-18)
There are people who read the Bible but only think of the bad possibilities and issues, instead of doing all the word of God means for us to do and discover with Him and each other. When we read God's word, it is not wise to just think of bad possibilities and problems. Because God is able to have us succeed in all He means by whatsoever He says ! ! !
"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
. It shall not return to Me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Isaiah 55:11)
So, this corruption is a consequence of sinning . . . how we get into the evil spirit of disobedience if we sin. There is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," Paul says in Ephesians 2:2. There is emotional degradation in the wrong spirit which has us sin. So, even if God does not actually punish us, there is what we become inside ourselves because of disobeying God in the wrong spirit.
For example, when ones argue, they get degraded from love, and they get hurt.
"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," Paul says in Philippians 2:14-16.
So, by doing things without complaining and arguing we can become blameless, harmless, and without fault . . . even right "in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation". So, in this life, in this evil world, we can become "without fault", by becoming strong in love that keeps us from arguing and complaining. By becoming real in God's love, this works, now.
So, living free of sin has to do with how we become in God's love and how He has us loving. Instead of complaining, we appreciate and enjoy and thank our Father. And instead of arguing, we stay pleasant and in rest in God's love, and "submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21) "with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)
So, instead of worrying about if we could lose our salvation, stay busy with seeking and submitting to God for His correction (Hebrews 12:6-11) and how He has us loving (1 John 4:17-18)
There are people who read the Bible but only think of the bad possibilities and issues, instead of doing all the word of God means for us to do and discover with Him and each other. When we read God's word, it is not wise to just think of bad possibilities and problems. Because God is able to have us succeed in all He means by whatsoever He says ! ! !
"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
. It shall not return to Me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Isaiah 55:11)
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