Can we fall from grace ?

[BryanW92]

great post.

Thanks! I think the problem that Lori and many other have is they look at the sacrifice on the cross as an object lesson. That is, Jesus did this so you must do it too. But to do that denies (not explicitly, so no one should say that I am "putting words in their mouths") the deity of Jesus. If his death was just a lesson to be learned, then he could have been Buddha or Mohammed or Joseph Smith. He could have been any guy who loved his followers enough to die to teach them a lesson.

Like any matryr. History is full of them.

But, his death is different. It has cosmic significance and is not a lesson. His death is a force of nature. His death opens up grace for all the world.

 

[thepromiseofgrace]

Thanks! I think the problem that Lori and many other have is they look at the sacrifice on the cross as an object lesson. That is, Jesus did this so you must do it too. But to do that denies (not explicitly, so no one should say that I am "putting words in their mouths&quot the deity of Jesus. If his death was just a lesson to be learned, then he could have been Buddha or Mohammed or Joseph Smith. He could have been any guy who loved his followers enough to die to teach them a lesson.

Like any matryr. History is full of them.

But, his death is different. It has cosmic significance and is not a lesson. His death is a force of nature. His death opens up grace for all the world.

I agree, if you deny the blood is sufficient then you deny the saviour and the only way to the father.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Thanks! I think the problem that Lori and many other have is they look at the sacrifice on the cross as an object lesson. That is, Jesus did this so you must do it too. But to do that denies (not explicitly, so no one should say that I am "putting words in their mouths") the deity of Jesus. If his death was just a lesson to be learned, then he could have been Buddha or Mohammed or Joseph Smith. He could have been any guy who loved his followers enough to die to teach them a lesson.

Like any matryr. History is full of them.

But, his death is different. It has cosmic significance and is not a lesson. His death is a force of nature. His death opens up grace for all the world.

We need to reiterate this position whenever we see it. Many have fallen into this trap and it seems many others are picking it up.

I think the Lord has us discussing this in depth for a reason. Praise you Lord!

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I agree, if you deny the blood is sufficient then you deny the saviour and the only way to the father.

Exactly.

It's a slippery slope, once one is going down that path they just coast along into more and more bad theology. It's like a landslide on the side of a mountain. And a landslide easily kills.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Good point.

the doctrine that Lori follows calls unclean, what God has cleansed.

It's like walking around with a brand new clean white shirt, but saying that it is dirty.

The Word tells us Jesus washes us as white as snow. Now that is CLEAN, but some Christians still want to say that what Jesus has justified as clean, is dirty.

 

[lori milne]

It's like walking around with a brand new clean white shirt, but saying that it is dirty. The Word tells us Jesus washes us as white as snow. Now that is CLEAN, but some Christians still want to say that what Jesus has justified as clean, is dirty.

Why did he die on the cross for you to go back to your old man/vomit/ perdition
He says have faith in me and you will thirst no more!
Sin no more
Is his teachings replaced by grace
Grace is only favor in Gods eyes after righteousness.

Your theory contradicts the bibles direct teachings from CHRIST and I'm sure Jesus is the son of God
Calvinism is a theory not fact OSAS is a theory
Not provable
You can't prove OSAS in the bible even if you tried cuz it's not in the bible
Sin no more is

Saved by grace is only in the bible 2
And used with through faith which means to believe in Jesus!!
Can't believe in Jesus if your not believing in his teachings!
Contradiction
Tel me am I guessing or Assuming

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Why did he die on the cross for you to go back to your old man/vomit/ perdition
He says have faith in me and you will thirst no more!
Sin no more
Is his teachings replaced by grace
Grace is only favor in Gods eyes after righteousness.

Your theory contradicts the bibles direct teachings from CHRIST and I'm sure Jesus is the son of God
Calvinism is a theory not fact OSAS is a theory
Not provable
You can't prove OSAS in the bible even if you tried cuz it's not in the bible
Sin no more is

Saved by grace is only in the bible 2
And used with through faith which means to believe in Jesus!!
Can't believe in Jesus if your not believing in his teachings!
Contradiction
Tel me am I guessing or Assuming

I'm not in vomit. I'm in the righteousness of Christ

Where are you? Do you need help climbing out of that hole? I can help you out of it.

 

[lori milne]

I'm not in vomit. I'm in the righteousness of Christ Where are you? Do you need help climbing out of that hole? I can help you out of it.

Humbly your sister in jesus name
Amen

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Why did he die on the cross for you to go back to your old man/vomit/ perdition
He says have faith in me and you will thirst no more!
Sin no more
Is his teachings replaced by grace
Grace is only favor in Gods eyes after righteousness.

Your theory contradicts the bibles direct teachings from CHRIST and I'm sure Jesus is the son of God
Calvinism is a theory not fact OSAS is a theory
Not provable
You can't prove OSAS in the bible even if you tried cuz it's not in the bible
Sin no more is

Saved by grace is only in the bible 2
And used with through faith which means to believe in Jesus!!
Can't believe in Jesus if your not believing in his teachings!
Contradiction
Tel me am I guessing or Assuming

I know grace bothers you.

I remember your testimony about how many times 'hell' is in there. You must like to count.

I learned in kindergarten

 

[revrobor]

Im struggling with this not because I feel what I do in any way will get me to heaven but what I do as of Sinning I feel there is a consequence what is it ? I don't see it and we as children of God should obey His request to be perfect as He is in heaven!? I seem to ruffle feathers every time this comes up?? And I know we sin but ware is the line between being strong and remembering he will not give us more in temptation then we can handle and saying we're sinners?! Doesn't this cause us to stumble more saying we are sinners versus were are redeemed and can repent why do so many lean more on we are week then we can be strong in Him?! And what's the consequence to being a slave to sin?! I'm scarred to ask my pastor in fear he'll think I'm unknowledgable !

Well Lori, first of all we will never be perfect because we are involved in a battle with Satan. It is he who throws temptation at us NOT Jesus. The only unforgivable sin is refusing to accept the free gift of salvation God has provided for us. And we will never, in this life, know all we need or want to know. So don't fret about your pastor thinking you are unknowledgeable. If he should think members of his congregation know all they need to know then he is deluded. Of course we sin at one time or another throughout our lives, sometimes even without knowing it. But the blood of Jesus washes away those sins. So relax and know God loves you. Just concentrate on being an obedient follower of Jesus.

 

[lori milne]

Well Lori, first of all we will never be perfect because we are involved in a battle with Satan. It is he who throws temptation at us NOT Jesus. The only unforgivable sin is refusing to accept the free gift of salvation God has provided for us. And we will never, in this life, know all we need or want to know. So don't fret about your pastor thinking you are unknowledgeable. If he should think members of his congregation know all they need to know then he is deluded. Of course we sin at one time or another throughout our lives, sometimes even without knowing it. But the blood of Jesus washes away those sins. So relax and know God loves you. Just concentrate on being an obedient follower of Jesus.

Wow such a fruit barring statement in JESUS NAME
I truly needed that
I thank you so very much!!
I truly just want to sing praises and hymns to the Lord now
God bless you and keep you always in his favor
Amen

 

[Light hearted]

Amen
Jesus is the only way
But does grace cover sin so you can sin freely ?
No only past sins are forgiven that means not present nor future
Past / implied repented i assume but past never the less
Amen

I just need the scripture that says it is only for past sins again.

 

[lori milne]

I just need the scripture that says it is only for past sins again.

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]25‬ KJV

 

[hmw]

I just need the scripture that says it is only for past sins again.

Hi Light hearted,

Rom 3:25 does say remission of past sin.

Sadly, this means that legalists (like Lori seems to be) who determine righteousness by works of the law, there is no sacrifice for their subsequent sin.

If anyone truly knows the truth in Christ (as described in Heb 6;4-6) but then turns back to works of the law to determine righteousness, then such make themselves a willful sinner (Heb 10:26), being in unbelief.

Gal 2:18
For if I build again those things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor./SINNER.

Whatever the law says, it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

Legalists always preach that righteousness will be determined by works of the law, proclaiming that if we sin/transgress the law ( that we're NOT under) once too often, then we're lost. These modern legalists are similar to the Pharisees and Sadducees.

For Christians our past sin was dealt with at the cross. Once we receive Christ there is no more sin that can be charged against us (Rom 8:33, 1Pet 4:1, 1John 3:9) as we're covered by Christ's righteousness/holiness/sinlessness.

But for legalists, they remain in their sin as they reject the cross.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Hi Light hearted,

Rom 3:25 does say remission of past sin.

Sadly, this means that legalists (like Lori seems to be) who determine righteousness by works of the law, there is no sacrifice for their subsequent sin.

If anyone truly knows the truth in Christ (as described in Heb 6;4-6) but then turns back to works of the law to determine righteousness, then such make themselves a willful sinner (Heb 10:26), being in unbelief.

Gal 2:18
For if I build again those things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor./SINNER.

Whatever the law says, it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

Legalists always preach that righteousness will be determined by works of the law, proclaiming that if we sin/transgress the law ( that we're NOT under) once too often, then we're lost. These modern legalists are similar to the Pharisees and Sadducees.

For Christians our past sin was dealt with at the cross. Once we receive Christ there is no more sin that can be charged against us (Rom 8:33, 1Pet 4:1, 1John 3:9) as we're covered by Christ's righteousness/holiness/sinlessness.

But for legalists, they remain in their sin as they reject the cross.

I'm glad that you mentioned legalist thinking. What I find so odd is that most of the New Testament is about how to grow spiritually we must overcome our carnal, fleshly nature which focuses on self. Our default nature is to think about and care for self.

Legalism keeps a believer focused right there with their carnal natures focusing on self. Not only does it focus on self, but it puts the actions and obedience of self as the frontrunner in your life because to keep their salvation is dependent upon self.

In putting their salvation in the hands of themselves, they are in a constant competition with their 'old man' the old self that was crucified with Christ.

It is fertile ground for satan to attack.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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Salvation is by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ who died for our sins and rose again, providing eternal redemption to those who believe. It is not by our works or works of the law. (Eph 2: 8-9)
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[James Is Back]

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[lori milne]

Mod Hat On Thread reopened and has undergone a thread cleanup. If your post is gone that is the reason. I will remind everyone of FreeinChrist's Mod Hat on the SoP as well as reminding all not to flame each other. Thank you. Mod Hat Off

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway
Corinthians‬ 9:27