Some don't understand Romans 3:31. Here is a challenge.

[bugkiller]

This happens alot in debates, people won't just go thought for thought, toe to toe, so I get all of this stuff, but no clarity. People put other text in, say this and say that, but a simple question, does not get a simple definitive answer, it is a shame, because it ruins the thread, compensation is easily spotted.

Then when a poster presents it like like he is on top of it all, or he is very confident about Rom 3, and lets us know he thinks it, that is also compensation, if the poster were on top of his game, then wouldn't he like to bring down my point, on my terms? hehehehe.

Why all of these endless scrolling posts, that don't answer clearly, when if one could chop me down, using my pinpoint idea he would?

If the opponent could, he would, but he can't.

He can't afford to get pinned. Its his confusion. Its required so he can fix it for the gullible.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

Bob, you said in your post 88, that rom 3 is about the 10, then you quoted 3:19. but look at the verses before, 3:19, they are NOT THE 10, so Romans 3:19, was not about the 10, as SCHOLARS SAY. 3:19 was about the prior verses, none of which were the 10! So you are wrong in saying Rom 3 is about the 10. You mentioned scholars..




10 as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Good question...........

Frog vs Rabbit......will have to order frog legs and rabbit meat next time I go out ehehe


.

 

[Frogster]

He can't afford to get pinned. Its his confusion. Its required so he can fix it for the gullible.

bugkiller

I hoped for a fun debate..but...oh well, I can"t just get a few simple to the point sentences here!

It is like asking for the time, and the person starts talking all about watches, but he won't just tell me the time.:o

 

[JohnRabbit]

I will easily rebut this, after you recant your opening comment about it being a waste of time talking here, or whatever you said.

ok froggy, i recant.

 

[bugkiller]

I hoped for a fun debate..but...oh well, I can"t just get a few simple to the point sentences here!

It is like asking for the time, and the person starts talking all about watches, but he won't just tell me the time.:o

Exactly!!!!

Good one!

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

ok froggy, i recant.

I knew you would! hey, remember the fun ole days, when i used to call you furball, and you called me something of a nickname, but I forgeot what it was?

In 1 Cor 5, it was figurative language, some symbolism, metaphore, and all of that. Why would Paul give ammo to the Judiazers, and have the Corinthians become Jewish by having to get circumcosed, and then have them go to temple, to keep the Jewish Passover? the Judaizers would pounce all over Paul for that.

There ya go, besides, our lamb was the blood of Jesus, for our new cov, the passover in the OT was animal blood, about the egyptian event, so again, it was figurative in 1 Cor 5, not literal for the Corinthians.

 

[Frogster]

Exactly!!!!

Good one!

bugkiller

It ruins the thread. The poster will sometimes maybe use 5 verses out of context, giving wrong analysis, with different colors, large fonts, and all of that, mini quotes all in there, he said I said, kind of things, then i have to go back and rebut the 5, then we have 5 mini debates going in one post, it gets nowhere. And in the end, I still don't know what time it was. But toe toe, thought for thought, pinpoints, and gets to the facts.

 

[bugkiller]

No part of the text in Romans 3 says "two laws apart from each other" as I think we both agree. Rather what we saw there is the harmony between Law and Grace - Law is not a means to become saved. So no conflict.

========================== and here we saw how law and grace fit together.
In Rom 3 the term "LAW AND the Prophets" is the NT phrase used to mean "scripture" - as has been stated repeatedly.

3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—

"Scripture" bears witness to the righteousness of God in the OT. The point is clear.

like this. Read 3:21-26

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


The Atoning sacrifice for sin, the payment of our debt demanded by the Law - upheld in the death of Christ.
"Just and the Justifier" - both LAW and Grace combined.
"All have sinned" - the moral law of God defines sin - and condemns all
"Righteousness of God Through FAITH IN Jesus Christ" The means of salvation is not ever said to be the moral Law.
"Justified freely by His Grace" no claim made that the moral law justifies.


31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Salvation

But your argument is we practice sin by not keeping the Sabbath. One can't be justified while willfully practicing sin according to you. Bet you're familiar with

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Heb 10

If one violates the law they don't have salvation according to you and your church. For your easy perusal

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord" found in {6T 356.4}

There's another quote that's even better. At the moment I'm to lazy to locate it for you. It ties in very well with my Heb 10 quote.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

But your argument is we practice sin by not keeping the Sabbath. One can't be justified while willfully practicing sin according to you. Bet you're familiar with

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Heb 10

If one violates the law they don't have salvation according to you and your church. For your easy perusal

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord" found in {6T 356.4}

There's another quote that's even better. At the moment I'm to lazy to locate it for you. It ties in very well with my Heb 10 quote.

bugkiller

My argument is "Exegesis matters" - and in the text of Romans 3 the LAW that Paul is speaking about is the moral law - the that condemns all the lost among mankind, and that same one that defines sin.

It is the SAME one that "we ESTABLISH" as saints - the TEN Commandments and even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholarship admits to this.

Originally Posted by BobRyan

No part of the text in Romans 3 says "two laws apart from each other" as I think we both agree. Rather what we saw there is the harmony between Law and Grace - Law is not a means to become saved. So no conflict.

========================== and here we saw how law and grace fit together.
In Rom 3 the term "LAW AND the Prophets" is the NT phrase used to mean "scripture" - as has been stated repeatedly.

3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—

"Scripture" bears witness to the righteousness of God in the OT. The point is clear.

like this. Read 3:21-26

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


The Atoning sacrifice for sin, the payment of our debt demanded by the Law - upheld in the death of Christ.
"Just and the Justifier" - both LAW and Grace combined.
"All have sinned" - the moral law of God defines sin - and condemns all
"Righteousness of God Through FAITH IN Jesus Christ" The means of salvation is not ever said to be the moral Law.
"Justified freely by His Grace" no claim made that the moral law justifies.


31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Salvation
​

Because context matters.

Because exegesis matters.

even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholarship admits to this.

 

[Frogster]

but it was not good exegesis saying Rom 3 was about the 10 commandments, when 3:19 and was not, as i have proved.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, will ya just in 2 sentences tell the frog why 3:31 is about the Sabbath, but not Passover, because you said 3 is about morality and not the passover, yet you say it is about Sabbath!? Contradiciton city here!

There ya go, pinpoint time, simple, simple, simple, it should just take about 2 sentences to clear up your major contradicition.

so far you said alot, but there really is just alot of...ummmm...well, lets put it this way, no clear definitve answer.

Already done about half a dozen times so far... you keep insisting that you are ignoring the content of the posts -- I am starting to believe you on that point.

here we have the perfect illustration of Rom 3:31 and how it is that it points to the moral law of God -- still binding on all the saints - as the majority of even your own pro-sunday scholarship admits.

Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
...

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets")

29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

So then -- context, context, context.

 

[BobRyan]

but it was not good exegesis saying Rom 3 was about the 10 commandments, when 3:19 and was not, as i have proved.

You have not proven that Rom 3:19 is not a reference to the moral law of God that defines sin and condemns the entire world - the Ten Commandments as I have repeatedly proven so far.

And it is odd that even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholarship admits to this Bible fact.

Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
...

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets")

29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

So then -- context, context, context.

 

[Frogster]

Already done about half a dozen times so far... you keep insisting that you are ignoring the content of the posts -- I am starting to believe you on that point.

here we have the perfect illustration of Rom 3:31 and how it is that it points to the moral law of God -- still binding on all the saints - as the majority of even your own pro-sunday scholarship admits.

Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
...

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets")

29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

So then -- context, context, context.

Sorry but you're doing it again, how does this post disprove your contradicition about the passover, and sabbath?

 

[Frogster]

Duplicate.

 

[Frogster]

This forum is not working properly tonight, this is another duplicate, sorry.

 

[Frogster]

one post, one question.

How does faith establish the law, the very law that voids faith, and is not of faith?

 

[Frogster]

one post, one question, which 2 laws are being talked about here, that are apart, indicating they are not the same law?





21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—

 

[Frogster]

One post, one question..You said rom 3 was about sin and morals, then you said it was not about Passover. Yet you say it is about Sabbath. Please explain that obvious contradiciton.

 

[Frogster]

You have not proven that Rom 3:19 is not a reference to the moral law of God that defines sin and condemns the entire world - the Ten Commandments as I have repeatedly proven so far.

And it is odd that even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholarship admits to this Bible fact.

Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
...

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets")

29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

So then -- context, context, context.

You said Romans 3 was about the 10 in post 88, as you quoted 3:19 which says law in it, yet 3:19 is not about the 10, so you are incorrect in saying that rom 3 is about the 10.