Sin can not take away your salvation.

[Jesse2014]

So its all skirting the question really.
Can sin take away salvation..past sin no of course not.
Present sin you refuse to repent of?some imply no..
So a man is saved and walks in that salvation ..then through hardness of heart he turns away and lives in sin.he is convicted by his consciounce but repetedly refuses to repent and stop doing it.he falls into further sin drunkeness and partying ..even begins laying with other men...and woman(do not be fooled,sexual immorality is not reserved for gays,non gays are equal sin.) On the day the lord returns he is engaged in a party comitting sodomy...
The op.. In its incomplete presentation ,is trying to say this man is saved..
It is this incomplete open ended statement in the title of the Op.that i cannot agree with.

I don't know if this post was about me, and if it isn't I apologize.

But just to let people know, I don't participate in sodomy. I am still physically a virgin. The problem is in my mind. And I know lust is just as bad as committing the act; for it is idolatry, adultery, and covetousness.

And I do not refuse to repent. Isn't repenting stopping the sin and never doing it again? Why wouldn't I want to stop lusting? Lusting causes misery, jealousy, anger, fear, anxiety, and other emotional problems. I don't want to stop lusting for God. I want to stop lusting for me. Lusting after something I can't have is like an olympic runner who is forbidden to eat chocolate, but lusts after it anyways, which makes her miserable because she is lusting after something she can't have. I wanted to stop lusting even before I accepted Jesus. It was miserable.

So no, there is no refusal to repent. But I have OCD, I have a hard renewing mind. In fact, I stay away from men, except when I have no choice but to deal with them for business purposes. But I keep it business.
Men are forbidden fruit. I can't be friends with them. I can't talk to them, except for business purposes. I refuse any form of physical contact with them which includes hugging, shaking hands, a touch on the shoulder (which they tend to do), and not even a friendly fist punch. These are the rules I gave myself.

So again, there is no refusal to repent. I would love to just change my thought pattern, but because I compulse, it's hard to do.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I recall in the past i used to use this passage a lot . it had some unexpected side effects because of the way i exist that i found out about later .. but maybe it will be of help with those hard spots in the heart and mind .

"“Is not my word like fire,” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?" (Jeremiah 23:29)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The spiritual purpose of the scripture is to put to death the flesh consciousness, it is also a seed that can grow into something that the person it is a seed to will be fruit and a sign to . the letter kills and the spirit gives life . herein is a balance . I "SEEDED" myself thoroughly and the seed keeps growing . the process of seeding myself almost killed me . but the Holy Spirit is life and gives life . when it feels there is nothing left of you .. always choose life .

 

[Messy]

I used to have OCD thoughts just always when I was walking outside or a man sat next to me, I had to think: I want sex with you and I didn't because I hated that filth, but I had to think that and then I thought they were all psychic and could read my thoughts, you know just every random stranger on the street, it drove me nuts. My mom told my pastor, he prayed for me, rebuked some demons, didn't work at all. I got baptized, got out of the water, still the same thoughts. Then my mom went to a man who had prophetic gifts and he sent me a Word from God by post. It said: I'm not moved by accusations from the devil about my beloved. I declare you free in My Love! I believed that and it was gone immediately since that day.

 

[Viren]

I don't know if this post was about me, and if it isn't I apologize.

But just to let people know, I don't participate in sodomy. I am still physically a virgin. The problem is in my mind. And I know lust is just as bad as committing the act; for it is idolatry, adultery, and covetousness.

And I do not refuse to repent. Isn't repenting stopping the sin and never doing it again? Why wouldn't I want to stop lusting? Lusting causes misery, jealousy, anger, fear, anxiety, and other emotional problems. I don't want to stop lusting for God. I want to stop lusting for me. Lusting after something I can't have is like an olympic runner who is forbidden to eat chocolate, but lusts after it anyways, which makes her miserable because she is lusting after something she can't have. I wanted to stop lusting even before I accepted Jesus. It was miserable.

So no, there is no refusal to repent. But I have OCD, I have a hard renewing mind. In fact, I stay away from men, except when I have no choice but to deal with them for business purposes. But I keep it business.
Men are forbidden fruit. I can't be friends with them. I can't talk to them, except for business purposes. I refuse any form of physical contact with them which includes hugging, shaking hands, a touch on the shoulder (which they tend to do), and not even a friendly fist punch. These are the rules I gave myself.

So again, there is no refusal to repent. I would love to just change my thought pattern, but because I compulse, it's hard to do.

I've found being receptive to God in silence can be very helpful in making the mind peaceful. Praying should be 5% talking and 95% listening imo.

 

[WoundedDeep]

I don't know if this post was about me, and if it isn't I apologize.

But just to let people know, I don't participate in sodomy. I am still physically a virgin. The problem is in my mind. And I know lust is just as bad as committing the act; for it is idolatry, adultery, and covetousness.

And I do not refuse to repent. Isn't repenting stopping the sin and never doing it again? Why wouldn't I want to stop lusting? Lusting causes misery, jealousy, anger, fear, anxiety, and other emotional problems. I don't want to stop lusting for God. I want to stop lusting for me. Lusting after something I can't have is like an olympic runner who is forbidden to eat chocolate, but lusts after it anyways, which makes her miserable because she is lusting after something she can't have. I wanted to stop lusting even before I accepted Jesus. It was miserable.

So no, there is no refusal to repent. But I have OCD, I have a hard renewing mind. In fact, I stay away from men, except when I have no choice but to deal with them for business purposes. But I keep it business.
Men are forbidden fruit. I can't be friends with them. I can't talk to them, except for business purposes. I refuse any form of physical contact with them which includes hugging, shaking hands, a touch on the shoulder (which they tend to do), and not even a friendly fist punch. These are the rules I gave myself.

So again, there is no refusal to repent. I would love to just change my thought pattern, but because I compulse, it's hard to do.

Brother, pray for God to heal you of OCD, if that is His will. Otherwise, keep praying and resisting temptations. You are doing right to avoid situations of temptations, continue doing this because our redemption draws near. Your obedience will not go unrewarded.

 

[Jesse2014]

Thank you everyone.

 

[Messy]

I would love to just change my thought pattern, but because I compulse, it's hard to do.

My 8 year old kid had that, with other thoughts, fear of hell continually, the devil saying this and that. We prayed for him for deliverance, but he kept having these thoughts, he was afraid or something. His dad wanted to take him to a psychologist and I was afraid he'd get drugs, so he had to be healed. I said: Tell your dad you're healed. ' But then I'm lying.' It's the truth, God says in His Word you are free and healed by His stripes, declare His Word over yourself! He did, within a week it was totally gone. They overcame him by the Blood of the Lamb and the Word of their testimony and they did not love their life unto death. Declaring the Word over yourself combined with prayer you get works really good, Neil Anderson has lists, just look for texts that say you're the righteousness in Christ, you're made holy, whom the Son sets free is free indeed etc. Renew your mind by His Word.

 

[gideons300]

i think i get that the issue you're addressing is related to the institutional church and how it affects the hearts of the people . that it is not the "good ground" of the parable, but leads people into stagnation so that pastors can be fed off their substance in a relationship of co-dependency . As this is not everyone's situation .. I think when people realize it doesn't relate to them they'll be less offended by your words .
.
God bless .

Michael, what is the good ground? Is it not those that endure to the end and have fruits of the husbandman produced in them? Are you saying that the institutional church is the only one where the things of this world have dampened their spirits? It is a problem for almost all churches in the west, and yet how few see it.

The safety of the Lord is found by running into Him, becoming one with Him, casting off our old nature by faith and standing our ground when satan comes and accuses us. It is found inside the armor of God but it does not work if we do not put it on. If we rest content with positional holiness, with positionally being free from sin, with no heart for the real thing, it is telling us that something is wrong.

Somehow we think because we are the "spirit-filled" ones, it is only for others. But the truth is, to whom much is given, much is required. These are God's words, not mine. It cuts at the very heart of a false assurance that in our salvation, nothing is asked of us. God is not asking us to "do better", or work harder, but to believe with our whole hearts. And in order to do that, our whole hearts must be His. Our eyes must rest upon Him alone, our love must center on Him in every single area of our lives.

We have been taught a lie that says that we can surrender to Christ when we feel like it, a bit at a time, and it is because of this that we have been healed only slightly. We love to talk about our peace but the world sees through our words to the way we walk in this world, the way we love things that are in no way of God. Well did Jesus speak of His own children when He said that the children of this world are wiser than the children of light. Why do we not see? We are asleep in the light, but thank God, he is awakening us in these last hours to rescue us from the snare of the fowler. He will not let us walk into Heaven as the overcome, sinning like the world sins, with no consciousness of our deep error, with no heart to live any differently.

We can go to church, sing songs of full surrender, weep and praise and then walk out and live exactly like we have been living two hours before, with us still on the throne and Him in the back of our minds as an insurance policy.

That, dear brother is how deep the deception is. And our pat answer is that we have been forgiven so it is no biggie. THAT is itching ear theology. So if we do the same things that the world does and live lives like they live, do we we honestly think we will go to Heaven and those in the world will burn forever? Is this what Jesus died for, so that we can sin with impunity and still be safe?

Lest we forget, judgment will begin in OUR house, not in the house of the lost, and if we harden our hearts in the coming days when God is pleading with us to break before Him and cry out for full deliverance, our part will be to hear words on the final day that we think we will never hear. Why do I risk offending here with hard words that are true? Because like our God, I do not will that any perish but all learn the amazing blessing of letting Christ live and love through us.

The darkness that is blinding us to truth is coming to a head. We are that close. And when it does, here is what is going to happen. Those who have named Jesus as Lord but who continue to refuse to let Him BE Lord, these will actually think they do God a huge service by killing the troublemakers who "offend" them by their call to complete repentance, fully yielded lives and total faith in His promises to keep us from falling. I am sure many will scoff at such a statement, but God has showed me it is truth, whether we like it or not.

Be blessed dear Michael.

Gids

 

[brixken7]

Indeed, I perceive the OSAS lie as the same lie Satan told Eve in the Garden: "You shall not surely die". OSAS means a Christian can sin like the world and yet inherit eternal life. Isn't that the lie Eve believed in?

....................................

"Sin like the world".

That's a very interesting phrase you've brought up, WoundedDeep. And had you and I been alive and observed King David commit first adultery and then murder, we probably would have been convinced that David was an unsaved man -- probably never saved. After all, a man can't do much worse than adultery and murder. Didn't David sin "like the world"?!

But in David's case there were 2 major differences that made David and his sins unlike the world. For one thing, David did have God's holy spirit that gave him a consciousness of God that the world does not have.

Secondly, God 'messed' with David's so called 'free will'. You see, David was absolutely obsessed with Bathsheba. One might say that King David was a 'backslider'. But God brought him to his senses by speaking to him through the prophet Nathan (II Samuel 12) and God then took him to the woodshed, so to speak. Nevertheless, David never once lost God's spirit or his salvation.

I think there is a lesson here for all of us. The people of God can do great evil, yet be saved (the apostle Paul is another example). On the other hand, the people of the world can do great deeds -- yet be unsaved (I Corinthians 13:1-3). It's the calling of God and His spirit that makes the difference, for He promises to keep a person saved (Psalm 37:23-24; Proverbs 2:8; II Thessalonians 3:3; I Peter 1:5; Jude 24).



But don't anyone misunderstand. I am not encouraging anyone to indulge in sinful behavior -- because you won't get away with it. Besides, love for God and our fellow man should motivate us to live in accordance with God's Word.

 

[Jesse2014]

Thank you for sharing that, Messy. I will do that

 

[Viren]

Good point Brixken7. Only God knows the condition of each person's heart.

 

[WoundedDeep]

....................................

"Sin like the world".

That's a very interesting phrase you've brought up, WoundedDeep. And had you and I been alive and observed King David commit first adultery and then murder, we probably would have been convinced that David was an unsaved man -- probably never saved. After all, a man can't do much worse than adultery and murder. Didn't David sin "like the world"?!

But in David's case there were 2 major differences that made David and his sins unlike the world. For one thing, David did have God's holy spirit that gave him a consciousness of God that the world does not have.

Secondly, God 'messed' with David's so called 'free will'. You see, David was absolutely obsessed with Bathsheba. One might say that King David was a 'backslider'. But God brought him to his senses by speaking to him through the prophet Nathan (II Samuel 12) and God then took him to the woodshed, so to speak. Nevertheless, David never once lost God's spirit or his salvation.

I think there is a lesson here for all of us. The people of God can do great evil, yet be saved (the apostle Paul is another example). On the other hand, the people of the world can do great deeds -- yet be unsaved (I Corinthians 13:1-3). It's the calling of God and His spirit that makes the difference, for He promises to keep a person saved (Psalm 37:23-24; Proverbs 2:8; II Thessalonians 3:3; I Peter 1:5; Jude 24).



But don't anyone misunderstand. I am not encouraging anyone to indulge in sinful behavior -- because you won't get away with it. Besides, love for God and our fellow man should motivate us to live in accordance with God's Word.

I ought to have been clearer. When I mean sin like the world, I did in fact mean "indulging in sinful behaviour". Righteous people can fall, but they do not "wallow in the mire" or "return to its vomit".

 

[ToBeBlessed]

....................................

"Sin like the world".

That's a very interesting phrase you've brought up, WoundedDeep. And had you and I been alive and observed King David commit first adultery and then murder, we probably would have been convinced that David was an unsaved man -- probably never saved. After all, a man can't do much worse than adultery and murder. Didn't David sin "like the world"?!

But in David's case there were 2 major differences that made David and his sins unlike the world. For one thing, David did have God's holy spirit that gave him a consciousness of God that the world does not have.

Secondly, God 'messed' with David's so called 'free will'. You see, David was absolutely obsessed with Bathsheba. One might say that King David was a 'backslider'. But God brought him to his senses by speaking to him through the prophet Nathan (II Samuel 12) and God then took him to the woodshed, so to speak. Nevertheless, David never once lost God's spirit or his salvation.

I think there is a lesson here for all of us. The people of God can do great evil, yet be saved (the apostle Paul is another example). On the other hand, the people of the world can do great deeds -- yet be unsaved (I Corinthians 13:1-3). It's the calling of God and His spirit that makes the difference, for He promises to keep a person saved (Psalm 37:23-24; Proverbs 2:8; II Thessalonians 3:3; I Peter 1:5; Jude 24).



But don't anyone misunderstand. I am not encouraging anyone to indulge in sinful behavior -- because you won't get away with it. Besides, love for God and our fellow man should motivate us to live in accordance with God's Word.

I agree with you and King David is a great example. Looking at the Psalms written by King David we see that David also went through many trials and tribulations and lots of pain. But what separated David as a man after God's heart was his faith. No matter what King David went through it always came back to his undying faith.

I have brought up King David and some of the Psalms in the 'sin' conversation before. It was quickly dismissed as 'David always overcame and praised God in the end', but that thought is incredibly short sided when we look at the Psalms as they were written. They quickly dismissed 90% of the Psalms in favor of the 5% that they said instead showed victory, however the victory that King David spoke about was in his faith that God would never leave him and that indeed God would get him PASSED his pain.

It's interesting how much weight is put on sin and how little weight is put on the heart.

No wonder God tells us not to judge as only Jesus can perfectly judge as He sees the heart of men.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Michael, what is the good ground? Is it not those that endure to the end and have fruits of the husbandman produced in them? Are you saying that the institutional church is the only one where the things of this world have dampened their spirits? It is a problem for almost all churches in the west, and yet how few see it.

The safety of the Lord is found by running into Him, becoming one with Him, casting off our old nature by faith and standing our ground when satan comes and accuses us. It is found inside the armor of God but it does not work if we do not put it on. If we rest content with positional holiness, with positionally being free from sin, with no heart for the real thing, it is telling us that something is wrong.

Somehow we think because we are the "spirit-filled" ones, it is only for others. But the truth is, to whom much is given, much is required. These are God's words, not mine. It cuts at the very heart of a false assurance that in our salvation, nothing is asked of us. God is not asking us to "do better", or work harder, but to believe with our whole hearts. And in order to do that, our whole hearts must be His. Our eyes must rest upon Him alone, our love must center on Him in every single area of our lives.

We have been taught a lie that says that we can surrender to Christ when we feel like it, a bit at a time, and it is because of this that we have been healed only slightly. We love to talk about our peace but the world sees through our words to the way we walk in this world, the way we love things that are in no way of God. Well did Jesus speak of His own children when He said that the children of this world are wiser than the children of light. Why do we not see? We are asleep in the light, but thank God, he is awakening us in these last hours to rescue us from the snare of the fowler. He will not let us walk into Heaven as the overcome, sinning like the world sins, with no consciousness of our deep error, with no heart to live any differently.

We can go to church, sing songs of full surrender, weep and praise and then walk out and live exactly like we have been living two hours before, with us still on the throne and Him in the back of our minds as an insurance policy.

That, dear brother is how deep the deception is. And our pat answer is that we have been forgiven so it is no biggie. THAT is itching ear theology. So if we do the same things that the world does and live lives like they live, do we we honestly think we will go to Heaven and those in the world will burn forever? Is this what Jesus died for, so that we can sin with impunity and still be safe?

Lest we forget, judgment will begin in OUR house, not in the house of the lost, and if we harden our hearts in the coming days when God is pleading with us to break before Him and cry out for full deliverance, our part will be to hear words on the final day that we think we will never hear. Why do I risk offending here with hard words that are true? Because like our God, I do not will that any perish but all learn the amazing blessing of letting Christ live and love through us.

The darkness that is blinding us to truth is coming to a head. We are that close. And when it does, here is what is going to happen. Those who have named Jesus as Lord but who continue to refuse to let Him BE Lord, these will actually think they do God a huge service by killing the troublemakers who "offend" them by their call to complete repentance, fully yielded lives and total faith in His promises to keep us from falling. I am sure many will scoff at such a statement, but God has showed me it is truth, whether we like it or not.

Be blessed dear Michael.

Gids

Thanks for that, i was thinking of how I did not begin with a heart that was characterized as "good ground" of the parable . but I needed to identify what the weeds were and burn them out, and what the hard spots in my heart were and call out a scripture verse from Jeremiah to break the rocks to pieces ..

But in breaking those rocks to pieces .. and affecting the thoughts of others .. i changed a lot . and i still have a lot of changing left to do . but I'm not alone . God is transforming with me and within me . so it's only a matter of time .

after this i needed to examine my connections to others on the deeper levels .. and how i treat myself .. is how i was treating others . I met someone who received the butt end of my self transformation, so though i know of more forceful ways to deal with issues .. i am considerate of those lost in the depths.

the deeper into the rabbit hole i go .. the more i notice how connected we are through God but also through sin . because there isn't a single heart God is not working on to prepare for salvation .. and there isn't a single heart that isn't connected to the tentacles of sin as it attaches to the subconscious .. mimicking our own thoughts and emotions. and i am reminded that he who had no sin became sin so that we could be the righteousness of God . i'd venture God knows what it all means . but the little bit i've seen and experienced . fills me with hope for the future .

 

[Alithis]

I don't know if this post was about me, and if it isn't I apologize.

But just to let people know, I don't participate in sodomy. I am still physically a virgin. The problem is in my mind. And I know lust is just as bad as committing the act; for it is idolatry, adultery, and covetousness.

And I do not refuse to repent. Isn't repenting stopping the sin and never doing it again? Why wouldn't I want to stop lusting? Lusting causes misery, jealousy, anger, fear, anxiety, and other emotional problems. I don't want to stop lusting for God. I want to stop lusting for me. Lusting after something I can't have is like an olympic runner who is forbidden to eat chocolate, but lusts after it anyways, which makes her miserable because she is lusting after something she can't have. I wanted to stop lusting even before I accepted Jesus. It was miserable.

So no, there is no refusal to repent. But I have OCD, I have a hard renewing mind. In fact, I stay away from men, except when I have no choice but to deal with them for business purposes. But I keep it business.
Men are forbidden fruit. I can't be friends with them. I can't talk to them, except for business purposes. I refuse any form of physical contact with them which includes hugging, shaking hands, a touch on the shoulder (which they tend to do), and not even a friendly fist punch. These are the rules I gave myself.

So again, there is no refusal to repent. I would love to just change my thought pattern, but because I compulse, it's hard to do.

first up .. nope , i posted it before i read your post

and nope . repentance is changing your mind and following another ,being the lord Jesus and what messy shared is more then enough .. but you must believe his word above all else especially above what you see of yourself . he is more then able .. (ie even the words "i have ocd" is a declaration of the words of man over the words of Jesus ..see the principles we practice sometimes we don't realize they contradict the word of God -it is vital we make our choice of whom to put our faith in God or man.
i know i used to get soo frustrated that i could not have ANY interaction with females without if being tainted by some sort of sexual desire or thought or motive ..it self sickened our heart (this is encouraging in itself so be encouraged for if it did not bother us we would truly be seared of conscience ) but such is the transformation that Jesus wrought in our heats that now i am relaxed and interact with ladies at church as creatures of righteousness in Christ and fellow saints with me in the Hope of Jesus . - again i'm aware of the sin being present ,that is to say, i'm aware that in my flesh i have the propensity to sin, but due to the blood of Christ i am ruled by the holy Spirit within me and not by the flesh .its there but i need not obey it any longer -i have been set free - again..apply what Messy shared ..great stuff MESSY
only believe Jesse ..only believe! -live by faith not by sight the work he has begun in you he is able to perfect ... our part is to trust and obey

be greatly encouraged -you will look back at these days of your life and weep with thanksgiving to the lord for how he has brought you out of this place ... i still do -often .pouring out praise and joy and thanksgiving in tears for the wonderment of his deliverance from such bondage ... only beleive !

 

[Alithis]

....................................

"Sin like the world".

That's a very interesting phrase you've brought up, WoundedDeep. And had you and I been alive and observed King David commit first adultery and then murder, we probably would have been convinced that David was an unsaved man -- probably never saved. After all, a man can't do much worse than adultery and murder. Didn't David sin "like the world"?!

But in David's case there were 2 major differences that made David and his sins unlike the world. For one thing, David did have God's holy spirit that gave him a consciousness of God that the world does not have.

Secondly, God 'messed' with David's so called 'free will'. You see, David was absolutely obsessed with Bathsheba. One might say that King David was a 'backslider'. But God brought him to his senses by speaking to him through the prophet Nathan (II Samuel 12) and God then took him to the woodshed, so to speak. Nevertheless, David never once lost God's spirit or his salvation.

I think there is a lesson here for all of us. The people of God can do great evil, yet be saved (the apostle Paul is another example). On the other hand, the people of the world can do great deeds -- yet be unsaved (I Corinthians 13:1-3). It's the calling of God and His spirit that makes the difference, for He promises to keep a person saved (Psalm 37:23-24; Proverbs 2:8; II Thessalonians 3:3; I Peter 1:5; Jude 24).



But don't anyone misunderstand. I am not encouraging anyone to indulge in sinful behavior -- because you won't get away with it. Besides, love for God and our fellow man should motivate us to live in accordance with God's Word.

yes ..king David had a heart which pursued God ..when confronted with his sin his reaction is notable as an example to us all ..

he did not deny
he did not self justify
he did not accuse the messenger of being judgmental
he did not use many words to distract the heart issue ..

he said “I have sinned against the Lord.”- his only response is honesty of heart - repentance . -and though he the power to as king ,did not continue in that error - this is key .
can sin lose us our salvation.. yes ..IF we knowingly continue in it and do not turn from it .

 

[ToBeBlessed]

What scripture do you have that when used in context supports that?

Not the grasping at straws and misconscruing kind that is twisted, but direct verses.

Telling people that they can loose their salvation is serious? Don't you think? You wouldn't make such a statement off the cuff w/o knowing their heart I would say.

How can you so crisply remove what Christ died to give us? Jesus doesn't do it. Why you?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Sin cannot touch the basis of the new nature, that's what makes it of a quality that thief cannot break in and steal, moth cannot eat up, or rust destroy . when the new kingdom comes .. it is a profound question indeed .. how mature will you be? how rich will you be in this new reality .. that is nothing like this one?
.
the kingdom is already within us .. so it stands to reason that God will intervene and destroy this world before sin has the time to do so . so when there is nothing left of this world .. sin like a parasite without a host will die .. and there will only be glory .
.
this is why sin cannot take away salvation .. but perhaps it can take away from our focus of getting that victor's prize .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

By giving sin an eternal quality .. it is elevating it to God status .. only God is eternal .. and only eternal life is given through God .. so now is sin being given an eternity as well?