Why would God create a flawed creation?

[GoldenBoy89]

Well maybe creation isn't perfect because God wasn't perfect.
I don't believe Adam was perfect. God only said it was good.
Adam was created in God's Image, which I think means that God was innocent too, not knowing good and evil and had no idea that an angel would fall and try to ruin His creation. He knew good and evil it says in Genesis, know means: know by experience. Since He didn't sin (know evil by doing evil) and it says Jesus who is God was an innocent Lamb He must have experienced evil when satan rebelled.

This is the first time I see a theist describe God as imperfect.

 

[Gottservant]

Please explain how leniency with words is warranted for all actions that does not merit the death penalty.

Ken

its justifiable

because if a word does not kill you, you can say it

 

[Gottservant]

You can't judge perfection based on it's potential, you judge perfection based on results.

If something has never made an error, or it does not contain a flaw of any kind, then it can be said to be perfect.

That's all there is to it, and it doesn't matter how hard you try to redefine the word.

How do you criticise potential exactly? On the basis of what Law?

I think it is you whose word is corrupt and vile, and I am not mistaken in thinking you think so (because you have accused me three times now of trying to change the definition, and the thought has not even once entered my head)

Go on, tell me, how do you criticize potential?

 

[Dave Ellis]

How do you criticise potential exactly? On the basis of what Law?

I think it is you whose word is corrupt and vile, and I am not mistaken in thinking you think so (because you have accused me three times now of trying to change the definition, and the thought has not even once entered my head)

Go on, tell me, how do you criticize potential?

Who is criticizing potential? You're throwing out a red herring now.

 

[bhsmte]

Can God not have infinite reasoning for his purposes? I am 46 years old and have learn so many things in the last 6 years that it makes the knowledge I possessed previously seem pale in comparison and you want to challenge your understanding with an infinite God? It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant and arrogant mankind can be.

How did you acquire this knowledge and how did you verify it to be true?

 

[Dave Ellis]

LOL, those are not the only options. Can a finite being have the same understanding as an eternal one? Surely you jest.

Can God not have infinite reasoning for his purposes? I am 46 years old and have learn so many things in the last 6 years that it makes the knowledge I possessed previously seem pale in comparison and you want to challenge your understanding with an infinite God? It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant and arrogant mankind can be.

Why can a finite being not have the same understanding? While an infinite being would almost definitely have more experience, there's nothing to preclude a finite being from being able to fully understand a concept.

If you ask me, the ignorant and arrogant position is to assert that you know all this stuff about god, despite a complete lack of evidence, and then admonishing other people for having the gall to disagree with your viewpoint.

 

[ananda]

LOL, those are not the only options. Can a finite being have the same understanding as an eternal one? Surely you jest.

Can God not have infinite reasoning for his purposes? I am 46 years old and have learn so many things in the last 6 years that it makes the knowledge I possessed previously seem pale in comparison and you want to challenge your understanding with an infinite God? It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant and arrogant mankind can be.

We have understanding as elohim does, if the Bible is correct:

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil ... And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil"

 

[Gottservant]

Who is criticizing potential? You're throwing out a red herring now.

You take me for some kind of fool: if potential isn't perfect, you are criticizing it!

 

[Dave Ellis]

You take me for some kind of fool: if potential isn't perfect, you are criticizing it!

That makes no sense at all....

 

[Hawkins]

No, a lack of guilt has nothing to do with perfection. A lack of guilt is innocence. Just because you are innocent does not mean you are perfect.

Ken

Perfection is about how a final product matches its design scheme. A perfect mirror is not supposed to be able to speak English as speaking English is not the design purpose of a mirror. Moreover, you don't point to the melting glass in the process of glass blowing to say that it's flawed because it's not reflecting images.

So the first point is, you need to understand the design purpose of a product. Second is you need to evaluate the final product instead of the semi product.

Humans on earth is semi product in its "glass blowing" process. Only humans in heaven can be evaluated as perfect or not. To me, we don't seem to understand the design purpose of planet earth neither.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Perfection is about how a final product matches its design scheme. A perfect mirror is not supposed to be able to speak English as speaking English is not the design purpose of a mirror. Moreover, you don't point to the melting glass in the process of glass blowing to say that it's flawed because it's not reflecting images.

So the first point is, you need to understand the design purpose of a product. Second is you need to evaluate the final product instead of the semi product.

Humans on earth is semi product in its "glass blowing" process. Only humans in heaven can be evaluated as perfect or not. To me, we don't seem to understand the design purpose of planet earth neither.

So does that mean god's perfect creation was designed to fall into sin?

Because if the world fell into sin unintentionally, that means the original design did not meet its intent, and therefore was not perfect

 

[Messy]

So does that mean god's perfect creation was designed to fall into sin?

Because if the world fell into sin unintentionally, that means the original design did not meet its intent, and therefore was not perfect

Why not? That's inherent to free choice. Only way He could have avoided it to happen (if He even knew) was create nothing or just some animals.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Why not? That's inherent to free choice. Only way He could have avoided it to happen (if He even knew) was create nothing or just some animals.

Well then he's not omnibenevolent.

 

[brinny]

If God was omniscient and omnipotent, then he wouldn't have knowingly created a flawed creation. However, creation is obviously flawed, so one of the following must be true:

1. While God is compassionate and loving, he is not omniscient (he could not see the results of his action), or
2. While God is compassionate and loving, he is not omnipotent (he could not create a perfect creation, or he did not have the power to sustain perfection in his creation), or
3. God is omniscient and omnipotent but uncompassionate and unloving (towards his creation he originated, dooming many to hell which he foreknew).

What saith ye?

Was it flawed?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Messy]

Well then he's not omnibenevolent.

He's not all good because He created a perfect angel that rebelled against Him? If He's not all good He's half bad which is totally bad and there could be no good people.

 

[Dave Ellis]

He's not all good because He created a perfect angel that rebelled against Him? If He's not all good He's half bad which is totally bad and there could be no good people.

No, he's not all good because he's willingly allowing people to live in a world he designed with widespread disease, natural disasters, famine, drought, etc.

Any omnibenevolent being could not allow that to happen.

 

[Messy]

No, he's not all good because he's willingly allowing people to live in a world he designed with widespread disease, natural disasters, famine, drought, etc.

Any omnibenevolent being could not allow that to happen.

He didn't design it like that. Diseases, death, natural disasters came in when Adam invited the devil in. He gave the authority over the earth to man and he gave it to Satan, so God had to become Man to take the authority back. If we follow Him we get this authority and He can heal people by using us, like He used Jesus' Body.

 

[ananda]

Was it flawed?

Thank you kindly.

It's not perfect, therefore I conclude that it is indeed flawed.

 

[Dave Ellis]

He didn't design it like that. Diseases, death, natural disasters came in when Adam invited the devil in. He gave the authority over the earth to man and he gave it to Satan, so God had to become Man to take the authority back. If we follow Him we get this authority and He can heal people by using us, like He used Jesus' Body.

So in other words it wasn't a perfect design, there was a flaw that was exposed by Adam and Eve.

 

[Gottservant]

That makes no sense at all....

Another criticism.

Look at Hawkins' response for the taxonomy of the perfection process, it makes perfect sense which I have seen already you attempt to contradict.

Perhaps if you prayed for an answer, you would see the answers that are already there.