Water baptism

[bob96]

Those 3,000 in Acts 2 had no idea what baptism was about really

Yes they did! Peter told them "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins".

Prerequisite: faith, repentance.
Afterwards: saved, sins forgiven, received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[bob96]

no, what is scary is how you mandate it, without saying you are mandating it.

You also make it an emergency.

What if a guy got saved up north in November, but wanted to be baptized in lake Erie, is he allowed to wait until the end of July?

By the way, lets always remember the good thief..

There you go again. "Stop! Wait! Don't rush things!"

No need to wait. You just fill up a bath or a barrel. If you live near a frozen lake, you just cut a hole in the ice!

Search Google Images: "Oh c’mon chill out mate, it’s not the end of the world"

resources3[dot]news[dot]com[dot]au/images/2014/06/20/1226961/764495-263a19e0-f840-11e3-8ea9-a081f3513119.jpg

 

[bob96]

no, what is scary is how you mandate it, without saying you are mandating it.

You also make it an emergency.

What if a guy got saved up north in November, but wanted to be baptized in lake Erie, is he allowed to wait until the end of July?

By the way, lets always remember the good thief..

The thief died under the old covenant. Jesus had the ability to forgive sins on earth. No one received Jesus' baptism of forgiveness of sins at this point in time.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Yes they did! Peter told them "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins".

Prerequisite: faith, repentance.
Afterwards: saved, sins forgiven, received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Bob - I got it you are all worked up, but you might want to read with some discernment. I am actually on your side in this discussion. Read my post that you chopped most of it out on. My quote you posted in context was saying that Peter had those 3,000 baptized without any understanding of what baptism really was. He just told them, repent and be baptized. They learned about it and the other commands of Christ after the fact.

 

[bob96]

So long as one insists, that Col 2, and rom 6, have to be water, they mandate it for salvation, one has to be near water, to complete the equation, definition of col 2, and rom 6, the definition of our conversion moment. 6 and 2 can't work then..

The man from miami could not get saved, no baptismal on the plane!

People need water to survive, therefore the majority of people on earth live near water. Getting access to water is *generally* not a problem.

The real concern is that some prisons in the US don't allow full immersion baptisms anymore.

denverpost[dot]com/ci_23312827/pentecostal-pastor-says-denver-jail-is-blocking-immersion

 

[Frogster]

No work of merit could earn salvation. Baptism is not a work of merit. It is a work of God.

Eph 2:12 "...having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead."

In baptism, we are raised in resurrection through the working of God.

No, we are seated in the heavnelies, that is spiritual, it does not take water, it says by the glory of the father in 6, He does not need a lake, pond, river, or a baptismal, not even the long island sound.

You are fusing the natural, to the supernatural.

Are win In HIM spiritually, or naturally?

 

[bob96]

you're saying 2 things. At least Bob said no.

Then how could the miami guy, who by the way, many can die before baptism, be saved? How can you say he did complete his salvation because of no water?

Do you now see how you are mandating?

you just did it here, but not as clear as bob did.

I guess all of the people in hospitals who die, where they can not be baptized, can't have conversion, they can't have the glories of rom 6, and Col 2?

you need to please rethink your dogmatic theology, thanks, frog.

Wow! More excuses.

In hospital, they could be baptised in a bath or barrel. If your life depends on something, you will find a way.

 

[Frogster]

Our local church is a conservative charismatic Lutheran.
I am one of the few however, who does not clap nor raises hands.

You are correct though - not to many.

interesting, and yes, not too many, but glad there is yours.

I was wondering, without giving the name for privacy concerns, is there a Charismatic type of word in your church name?

In my town there is a Holy Ghost Lutheran church, so you got me wondering if maybe they are charismatic too?

Aslo, do you catch hastle from non Charismatic Lutherans?

I am just curious, no need to reply if you don't want to, thanks! frog.

 

[bob96]

you served in the military, what about dying soldiers that die on the field?

there are countless scenarios where there was no water, so according to you, like the miami man, there is no rom 6, or col 2, for these situations, which are many, not rare, or special.

but, if we listen to the frog, and know it is about union, the Miami man is ok.

The excuses don't stop. God isn't going to listen to excuses.

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The fact they had faith is obvious. They called Jesus their Lord. They were filled with the external dwelling of the Holy Spirit and performed many miracles, the same as the many members of the Corinthian church whom Paul had to rebuke.

Frogster, please answer why these faith filled believers were not saved.

 

[Frogster]

The thief died under the old covenant. Jesus had the ability to forgive sins on earth. No one received Jesus' baptism of forgiveness of sins at this point in time.

ahhhhh..but the new cov was inaugurated at the sprinkling..just like the old.


Heb 9:. 19 For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,


Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.





soooo without going down that road, countless people know what it means, no baptism needed to be in Christ.

 

[Frogster]

People need water to survive, therefore the majority of people on earth live near water. Getting access to water is *generally* not a problem.

The real concern is that some prisons in the US don't allow full immersion baptisms anymore.

denverpost[dot]com/ci_23312827/pentecostal-pastor-says-denver-jail-is-blocking-immersion

why wasnt the miami man saved?

 

[Frogster]

The excuses don't stop. God isn't going to listen to excuses.

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The fact they had faith is obvious. They called Jesus their Lord. They were filled with the external dwelling of the Holy Spirit and performed many miracles, the same as the many members of the Corinthian church whom Paul had to rebuke.

Frogster, please answer why these faith filled believers were not saved.

what does this have to do with my quote in your post?

hospital people, plane carashes, heart attacks, wars, keep people from being baptized, but by your own words, you mandate baptism for salvaion, those i just mentioned, that is a fact.

why wasn't the Miami man saved?

You said NO...

 

[Frogster]

Wow! More excuses.

In hospital, they could be baptised in a bath or barrel. If your life depends on something, you will find a way.

oh please... I see you may not have had experiences with people in casts, tubes, electric monitoring devices, pumps, cathaters, oxygen tanks, none of which are water suitable.

 

[bob96]

I asked what it does for the already converted, objectively speaking, or scripturally. So you say power, yet you did not tell me what it does for the believer.

What does it do, that my conversion, my water free conversion, did for me?

I've already shown that the early church fathers knew of no such thing as a "water free conversion". Historically speaking, who do you think would have the highest change of getting it right - the earliest church fathers, or Luther, who came along 1500 years later?

 

[bob96]

It was verse 2, and it was an elemental. Why is the blood the issue, and nothing about baptism or how important is is in 13 chapters?

Isn't it strange to you the silence on baptism, in the new Cov book of Hebrews?

No, it's not strange. The book is written to saved believers that have already been baptised for the forgiveness of their sins. Being a straight-forward elemental teaching with no hidden meaning, it doesn't need to be covered again.

Here's a question for you: do you think the early church fathers got it wrong when they said:

120-205 AD IRENAEUS "This class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole faith." (Against Heresies, bk. 1, chap. 21, sec. 1, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pg. 345.)

Unfortunately, you yourself belong to "this class of men" of which they speak.

 

[bob96]

Why wasn't the Miami man saved?

Because he has not had his sins forgiven. Baptism is
FOR
the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38

(I think I just blew out an eardrum)

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Actually frog, Hebrews does mention baptism by water...

Hebrews 10:22
let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[Frogster]

duplicate

 

[Frogster]

Actually frog, Hebrews does mention baptism by water...

Hebrews 10:22
let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

why would they get baptized long after conversion?

I mean, do you really think he meant it physically?

is this physical too do we enter physically?


10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,

 

[bob96]

Attn Bob!

Why isn't baptism mentioned with the priests in Acts 6:7?

Wel, gee, it is not mentioned in most of the conversions in Acts too...

Again, elemental teachings don't require further explanation. They were detailed in chapter 2. It says they were obedient, so therefore they were baptised as it was commanded.