An attempt to eliminate God.

[listed]

Slaves! Is that how you see God? As a slave master! For He would have to have been that to the Jews, for we say He gave them the Sabbath.
Does that make sense to you? Jesus was a salve to the Sabbath while on earth? Paul was a slave to the Sabbath? Luke 416 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.:
Acts 18
4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Now that is a pretty slick sophistry if I ever saw it making it look like Jesus preaches in the synagogue every Sabbath to Gentiles no less. What trick is next?

 

[listed]

Mat 5: 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Very nice random passage.

 

[listed]

Circucision is not the only problem in Acts 15. But the Ten c's is not the subject there.
Romans 14 in no way imply or refer to the Sabbath. There is mention of eating and drinking. Not the day of Worship.

WOW!!! Saying anything could get me into a lot of trouble. IOW this is really out there somewhere.

 

[maco]

In my studies it has dawn on me that the attempt to have God's Holy Ten commandment law abolished is an attempt to abolish God.
I see that on so many levels.

1. Removal of God laws is the removal of His government. How can one rule with out Law? Which ruler does that?
2. To take down God's law one would have to take down God, the law giver!
3. New rules new ruler.
4. God's law is under His throne/mercy seat, to get to His law one would definitely have to move Him. That amounts to dethroning God!

We do not understand the extent of our advocating the abolition of the Ten commandments. Even the first 4 directly refer to God. When we remove these where is God? Where is His sovereignty/worship and dignity as God?
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Very nice post! We are surely a wicked people. Thank God for His Law.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Very nice post! We are surely a wicked people. Thank God for His Law.

It was a good tutor when we were under it, I'll give you that.

 

[Sophrosyne]

What does any of that have to do with anything I have written???

you could say it is in agreement and sort of expanding upon it

 

[Sophrosyne]

The hallmark of slavery. Why did you not tell God that before He gave it!

Consider God allowed Egypt to enslave his people for a long time, then those people were given freedom and rebelled many wanting to go right back to Egypt and be a slave again. It is not a stretch that God would grant the spiritual condition of the people's desire to again be enslaved by given them a set of harsh laws to keep with death sentence upon breaking that approaches the harshness of their prior captivity. Let's face it Israel for the most part were a bunch of spoiled rotten people wanting God to do everything for them and forced Moses to be their errand boy instead of wanting a direct relationship with God and that is what they got. The Law was made as an indirect relationship with God and only a few chosen priests could address God on special occasions in the temple this was also a part of the Law. The veil was torn when Jesus died the law that allowed nobody but the high priest access to God was abolished. This same Law that is a barrier between us and God that was taken away so we could have a relationship with God through Jesus you want to restore again and enslave yourself through the rules of your high priest EGW, I choose Jesus instead.

 

[Elder 111]

How ya doin on that???

How we doing. We are all to get there, God wants to save us all.

 

[Elder 111]

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. - Romans 14:5-6

and two bonuses

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. - Colossians 2:16-17

So stop the judgment about Sabbaths!

also...

For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 1 Corinthians 9:19-20

Paul goes to the synagogue on the Sabbath to try to win the Jews there. Is there any record in the New Testament of any Christians observing a Sabbath outside of the temple or synagogue? I'll tell you now: there aren't.

The ten commandments ARE part of the Old Covenant Law.

As I said there is no discussion of the Sabbath in Romans 14. "A day" does not mean "the Sabbath".
Sabbath worship was always a part of Christianity even pass the second century. If you do some research you will find that that was so. Now look at Acts 13:
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Explain why would Paul be advocating to the Gentles that Sabbath was not for them but when there were no Jews still keep Sabbath meetings?
There is more. Just that we don't want to see.You will not find a command to keep Sunday in all the NT. But you do find the saint worshiping on the Sabbath.

 

[Elder 111]

I can see His word about Christ giving us a light yoke, while describing the Law as a heavy one. His word also tells us to be convinced in our own minds about Sabbaths. So it's not God... His word says otherwise.

Hold it a minute! Who gave the Sabbath? man or God?

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Slaves! Is that how you see God? As a slave master! For He would have to have been that to the Jews, for we say He gave them the Sabbath.
Does that make sense to you? Jesus was a salve to the Sabbath while on earth? Paul was a slave to the Sabbath? Luke 416 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.:
Acts 18
4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
​

Now that is a pretty slick sophistry if I ever saw it making it look like Jesus preaches in the synagogue every Sabbath to Gentiles no less. What trick is next?

You saying that the bible is deceptive? For it is the word of God that is shown.

 

[Elder 111]

Consider God allowed Egypt to enslave his people for a long time, then those people were given freedom and rebelled many wanting to go right back to Egypt and be a slave again. It is not a stretch that God would grant the spiritual condition of the people's desire to again be enslaved by given them a set of harsh laws to keep with death sentence upon breaking that approaches the harshness of their prior captivity. Let's face it Israel for the most part were a bunch of spoiled rotten people wanting God to do everything for them and forced Moses to be their errand boy instead of wanting a direct relationship with God and that is what they got. The Law was made as an indirect relationship with God and only a few chosen priests could address God on special occasions in the temple this was also a part of the Law. The veil was torn when Jesus died the law that allowed nobody but the high priest access to God was abolished. This same Law that is a barrier between us and God that was taken away so we could have a relationship with God through Jesus you want to restore again and enslave yourself through the rules of your high priest EGW, I choose Jesus instead.

Today is a sad day. When God can be portrayed as such and truth trodden under the foot of men.
A command by God to serve Him is slavery.
A command by God not to worship idols is slavery.
A command by God not to steal and lie and kill is slavery.
God is a slave master.
A sad day indeed.
I would only say that a rejection of the truth led the Jews to kill the saviour, A rejection of truth now have God as a slave master. There is no way that this idea could be of God and by extension the idea that the law is no more for followers of our Holy God can not be of God. See where it leads!

 

[BornAgainBrian]

As I said there is no discussion of the Sabbath in Romans 14. "A day" does not mean "the Sabbath".
Sabbath worship was always a part of Christianity even pass the second century. If you do some research you will find that that was so. Now look at Acts 13:
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Explain why would Paul be advocating to the Gentles that Sabbath was not for them but when there were no Jews still keep Sabbath meetings?
There is more. Just that we don't want to see.You will not find a command to keep Sunday in all the NT. But you do find the saint worshiping on the Sabbath.

Once more you ignore the rest of Scripture I showed and misrepresent even that which you showed.

There WERE Jews in the synagogue. Gentiles being there too does not mean that they were believing Christians: in fact the context points otherwise. Just that they happened to be there gives no indication that they were commanded to by a God whom they didn't know.

Tell me, what is the day in Romans 14 if you so adamantly deny it is the Sabbath?

Find a single mention of Christians meeting by themselves, apart from trying to convert Jews (Remember, to win Jews, Paul acts like them, including this mandatory Saturday business) on the Sabbath and/or in a place other than a Jewish synagogue.

Acts has an expansion of the spreading of the Gospel. First it is spread in Jerusalem, nearly entirely Jewish save the Roman landlords. Next is Judea and Samaria, still prominently Jewish. Finally it is to the ends of the Earth, mostly gentiles.

You will find the Gospel preached to each peoples in a manner suitable to them.

Keep these legal precepts if you like, but know that the whole law judges you if you do.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Hold it a minute! Who gave the Sabbath? man or God?

God commanded all the Law. That speaks nothing of its fulfillment. The New Testament is clear that the Law is a terrible burden, despite the fact that God gave it.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Today is a sad day. When God can be portrayed as such and truth trodden under the foot of men.
A command by God to serve Him is slavery.
A command by God not to worship idols is slavery.
A command by God not to steal and lie and kill is slavery.
God is a slave master.
A sad day indeed.
I would only say that a rejection of the truth led the Jews to kill the saviour, A rejection of truth now have God as a slave master. There is no way that this idea could be of God and by extension the idea that the law is no more for followers of our Holy God can not be of God. See where it leads!

No way it comes from God?

God sent him to buy freedom for us who were slaves to the law, so that he could adopt us as his very own children.
- Galatians 4:5

That is where I got the "idea". What was Christ's purpose? According to Scripture it was to set us free from the Law!

If you maintain that the Law is still binding, did Christ then fail?

Serving God - good.
Abstaining from idols - good.
Loving others and not stealing, lying or killing - good.

Mandating the legalistic keeping of a Sabbath - not good, unless you wish to nullify the work of the Son of God

 

[Cribstyl]

God commanded all the Law. That speaks nothing of its fulfillment. The New Testament is clear that the Law is a terrible burden, despite the fact that God gave it.

Well said..... Elder is only concerned with fabricated half truths. He will ignor context to post falsehoods.

 

[maco]

It was a good tutor when we were under it, I'll give you that.

If you only knew what it meant to be, under the Law.

To be, under the Law, means the Law has condemning power that justifies and calls for your execution. Those who are in Christ are no longer on there way to the gallows but this does not mean the Law has no value for God's people. The Law still defines righteousness and godly love which are to eternal things.

Listen to Jesus' discussion with the Pharisees and how Jesus gives us an understanding of what it means to be, not under the Law.

When you read these verses pay close attention in how the Pharisees brought to Jesus' attention that the Law required the lady, caught in adultery, to be put to death and then watch how Jesus places the lady under grace but then He tells her to obey the Law from that point on, He doesn't do away with it. Listen.

John 8:2-12 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear. So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

Go and sin no more means, go and obey the Law.

Let these two videos help you to come out of Babylon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VANW1HoPnKk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwVHEk_wwM

 

[Cribstyl]

As I said there is no discussion of the Sabbath in Romans 14. "A day" does not mean "the Sabbath".
Sabbath worship was always a part of Christianity even pass the second century. If you do some research you will find that that was so. Now look at Acts 13:
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Explain why would Paul be advocating to the Gentles that Sabbath was not for them but when there were no Jews still keep Sabbath meetings?
There is more. Just that we don't want to see.You will not find a command to keep Sunday in all the NT. But you do find the saint worshiping on the Sabbath.

What a sham Elder...... Rom 14 says...
Rom 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.

The bottom line about 'days' chosen to worship God does not put Sabbath days as the only day.
Christians should know that worship day(s) are a personal issue between a man and God.

 

[Cribstyl]

Truth matters

Originally Posted by maco

To be, under the Law, means the Law has condemning power that justifies and calls for your execution. Those who are in Christ are no longer on there way to the gallows but this does not mean the Law has no value for God's people. The Law still defines righteousness and godly love which are to eternal things.

Listen to Jesus' discussion with the Pharisees and how Jesus gives us an understanding of what it means to be, not under the Law.

When you read these verses pay close attention in how the Pharisees brought to Jesus' attention that the Law required the lady, caught in adultery, to be put to death and then watch how Jesus places the lady under grace but then He tells her to obey the Law from that point on, He doesn't do away with it. Listen.

John 8:2-12 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear. So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

Go and sin no more means, go and obey the Law.
​

Really maco? Fact is; "under the law" refurs to someone who is under the Old Covenant which is the law.
maco, the scriptures stresses that Christians are not under the law.

Does this means that Christians are not under sin? NO.... sin is not an option.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

If you only knew what it meant to be, under the Law.

To be, under the Law, means the Law has condemning power that justifies and calls for your execution. Those who are in Christ are no longer on there way to the gallows but this does not mean the Law has no value for God's people. The Law still defines righteousness and godly love which are to eternal things.

Listen to Jesus' discussion with the Pharisees and how Jesus gives us an understanding of what it means to be, not under the Law.

When you read these verses pay close attention in how the Pharisees brought to Jesus' attention that the Law required the lady, caught in adultery, to be put to death and then watch how Jesus places the lady under grace but then He tells her to obey the Law from that point on, He doesn't do away with it. Listen.

John 8:2-12 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear. So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

Go and sin no more means, go and obey the Law.

This is a questionable passage, found only in later manuscripts. I'll throw that out there to begin with.

In this case, is the woman under a New Covenant, having been redeemed by the blood of Christ? That is the difference between a Jew and a Christian.

Let me ask you, do you keep every aspect of the Law and equally proponent each? If not, why the discrepancy?

This is a never-ending discussion on this site, I'm sure. However, if the slavery to law is something you wish, then you are welcome to it. I am a servant of Christ under the New Covenant sealed by His blood. The law was a guardian of us, helping us to find Christ, according to the Word of God. We no longer need that guardian according to the same word. If you take that to mean that we are still bound by this guardian, I do not see how.

You say I am in Babylon. I must deny that. I simply show people that this sort of legalism is exactly what the New Testament preaches against.