Something Hard Not to Notice

[Tzaousios]

I don't. They come from Orthodoxy so they already know what it entails. I teach them scripture consistent with Baptist beliefs.

Interesting. Do you happen to agree with Baptist mission boards sending missionaries into countries with large Orthodox populations to convert them?

 

[Hentenza]

I know two Orthodox folk who regularly attend a baptist mid-week service. One in Georgia and one in Florida.
When I was baptist those leaving seemed to go Latin Rite Catholic but at that time, Orthodox churches were pretty scarce in northern Florida. They still are but not as scarce.

That is my experience also. I know several Baptists from my church that left for the Catholic church but do not know of any that left for Orthodoxy (although I could be wrong). I live in Houston and there are several Orthodox churches. I attended a service a few years ago and enjoyed it.

 

[Hentenza]

Interesting. Do you happen to agree with Baptist mission boards sending missionaries into countries with large Orthodox populations to convert them?

No, I don't. I think evangelization efforts should be focused on the unbeliever.

 

[Steeno7]

i came to Orthodoxy from the Baptist church. Since coming back to the US I've noticed that seems to be where a very high percentage of them came from.

Now I know we do not go out to Baptist Parking lots leaving literature under wiper blades so can anyone explain this?

It is the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S., so that would make sense.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

No, I don't. I think evangelization efforts should be focused on the unbeliever.

Bless you. That's my mindset as well. I may invite someone to visit if they are curious about us but not to influence them to leave their congregation.
Such "missions' are a waste of resources.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

It is the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S., so that would make sense.

That's surely has some to do with it. As of late a number of various forms of Anglicans seem to be showing interest but I understand the why of that as they're a bit more vocal on it.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I think that (and here I use the warning that I will be singling out some denominations) the radicalization in Pentecostal,SDA,Messianic groups and certain Non-denom megachurches has created a vacuum of sorts between the church and the message and witness of Christ,especially in the years post-9/11 here in North America.

One of the things I've been studying lately is the factor of Emergence Christianity. Now I could go off on this as a topic for theological debate on its own (but I'm not here cause of some in GT's ability to throw things off track). But Phyllis Tickle, an author and historian has done a number of books on the subject and using sociological as well as theological models concludes, and it make a lot of logical sense; that Christianity undergoes 500 year periods of retooling and rediscovery. That this era we are currently living in is an era akin to that of the Reformation. where concepts are going to be re-studyied and older witnesses re-visited.

I tend to see the counter response from the evangelical group into more liturgical or more mainstream groups within Christianity as one of the marking factors of this new Emergence.

Interesting. So this is happening in other Liturgical churches as well?

 

[Targaryen]

Interesting. So this is happening in other Liturgical churches as well?

Yes, I do see a number of former evangelicals joining more liturgical churches or establishing yet more non-denominational churches but with a more liturgical bent. However, this is not to discount the effect of the charismatic movement gaining momentum within liturgical or more mainline branches of Christianity. there is also a fundamental shift in how the role of the church is looking in general with the appearance of non-traditional explorations of evangelization, such as "beer and bibles" as it has been called By Tickle.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Very interesting topic.

My first impulse was that Baptists are a large group, so you might expect many of the converts to come from there (I saw a couple of others answered the same).

But yes, there are also many Pentecostals and non-denom Pentecostals, and I'm guessing Orthodoxy isn't seeing very many of them coming in?

There may be something to several things said here. When I was Baptist, I questioned some theologies I was taught, and have since found Orthodoxy addresses those particular issues. It is also true that many Baptist Churches are about as bare-bones as you can get, and there may be some appreciation for the beauty of Orthodox Churches (though imo aesthetics isn't enough reason). But the sense of the sacred that goes along with that is priceless to me. The impact on others would probably vary.

And the numbers might still mean something. I think I can see reasons why those with a Pentecostal bent might actually be more resistant to Orthodoxy. Pentecostal services are usually more - intensely personal rather than corporate? And that can be enjoyable. It is difficult to put aside self and deny those things that are enjoyed, and indeed have even been sought after as the epitome of what is spiritual in some cases. Orthodoxy on the other hand feels like closing the door on both self and spirit, and without an understanding of what is going on, that feeling is probably not going to go away. And it's unlikely to get the understanding if they don't experience it and try to understand it and be open to it. It's a hard sell, imo. Formal prayers are probably seen in the very same way.

Very interesting.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I think that (and here I use the warning that I will be singling out some denominations) the radicalization in Pentecostal,SDA,Messianic groups and certain Non-denom megachurches has created a vacuum of sorts between the church and the message and witness of Christ,especially in the years post-9/11 here in North America.

One of the things I've been studying lately is the factor of Emergence Christianity. Now I could go off on this as a topic for theological debate on its own (but I'm not here cause of some in GT's ability to throw things off track). But Phyllis Tickle, an author and historian has done a number of books on the subject and using sociological as well as theological models concludes, and it make a lot of logical sense; that Christianity undergoes 500 year periods of retooling and rediscovery. That this era we are currently living in is an era akin to that of the Reformation. where concepts are going to be re-studyied and older witnesses re-visited.

I tend to see the counter response from the evangelical group into more liturgical or more mainstream groups within Christianity as one of the marking factors of this new Emergence.

We're literally a living religion as we mold to the changing times, while retaining the core principles, as our core principles do not ever need to be changed with the times because they are so universal that it is unnecessary. Why would you ever need to change the idea of love and peace?

 

[~Anastasia~]

I think that (and here I use the warning that I will be singling out some denominations) the radicalization in Pentecostal,SDA,Messianic groups and certain Non-denom megachurches has created a vacuum of sorts between the church and the message and witness of Christ,especially in the years post-9/11 here in North America.

One of the things I've been studying lately is the factor of Emergence Christianity. Now I could go off on this as a topic for theological debate on its own (but I'm not here cause of some in GT's ability to throw things off track). But Phyllis Tickle, an author and historian has done a number of books on the subject and using sociological as well as theological models concludes, and it make a lot of logical sense; that Christianity undergoes 500 year periods of retooling and rediscovery. That this era we are currently living in is an era akin to that of the Reformation. where concepts are going to be re-studyied and older witnesses re-visited.

I tend to see the counter response from the evangelical group into more liturgical or more mainstream groups within Christianity as one of the marking factors of this new Emergence.

This is an interesting thought. I've only been around so many years, but I have wondered what's up with the church world lately. It does seem to me that something is changing.

Interesting - we can look back to 500-year periods (roughly) and see MAJOR changes. On an individual level, I see many who are seriously re-evaluating, or scurrying about to other kinds of churches, or so on ... but my limited view can't really speak to the universal Church through history, so I really don't give that much credence at all.

But overall, it has seemed to me that in the global Church itself ... something is going on, and has been building for a while.

 

[Targaryen]

We're literally a living religion as we mold to the changing times, while retaining the core principles, as our core principles do not ever need to be changed with the times because they are so universal that it is unnecessary. Why would you ever need to change the idea of love and peace?

Core principles within the gospel are actually not being re-evaluated. The Emergence is better understood as an ecclesiastical revolution then an theological one. however that is not to say there is a shift in theological reasoning.

Tickle has made the insight that this emergence will be less of an orthodoxy or orthopraxy type of type of shift as a shift in insight from one end at Orthonomy and the other end, which Tickle has said is best personified by Mark Driscoll and his Mars hill church in Seattle as Theonomy.

 

[MKJ]

You may have a point except I'd expect a lot of non-denoms and Pentecostals as well if that were the case.
My own reason was as simple as me following my husband. But when I ask others the answer seems fairly consistent. Some of it you spoke of but the most common theme seems to be they first showed up out of curiosity and had a few questions that had been bothering them their pastor couldn't or wouldn't answer to their satisfaction.
My first experience was quite a shock. I'd been to a liturgical service before and imagined it would be pretty similar to what I'd seen before. I left with a look of surprise and much to sort out. I'd never seen that much of the back of a church leaders head before. At that church they also didn't have pews and I wasn't expecting such a long service. I'd experienced incense before but never to that degree. For the next three days scripture verses kept flooding my mind and things I saw actually began to make sense. For about two months I really tried to find error in what I saw. That became quite frustrating as I couldn't. And becoming Orthodox was never my intention. It just happened to be the only gathering of Christians around.

That's interesting - you're right - if there are similar numbers of non-denomis and penecostals, you would see them too if it was just a numbers thing.

My guess then would be that there is something going on amongst some of the Baptist groups or communities that is trying to reconnect to historic forms of Christianity, and that is leading some people to look at other churches.

I know among the Anglicans I know who began as Baptists, most arrived through the study of history and philosophy at university, and through being exposed to Anglicanism at university. Many of them I suspect had a very similar experience of liturgical culture shock to yours - even I, having grown up a Lutheran, found it a bit overwhelming.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No. I was saying that we as Orthodox don't seek out Baptist to become Orthodox. But many of us are former Baptists. I'm just curious about why this seems so common. I know of at least five Orthodox right on this forum who were raised Baptist. In my local church I know 25 who were Baptist prior.

The tract thing was a bit of a joke as we're not known for passing them out.

The Southern Baptist Convention is the second largest church in the United States, second only to Roman Catholicism. The SBC is the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S. And the SBC isn't all Baptists, so it's not hard to extrapolate that Baptists of different sorts make up a significant demographic of American Protestantism, statistically higher than many other Protestant groups.

So I'd wager it's a pretty good statistical chance that taking any average number of American Protestants who convert to Orthodoxy that a fair number will have come from a Baptist background.

So it may simply be a matter of averages.

Just like there's probably a good chance that in England most Protestant converts to Orthodoxy are going to come from a Church of England background.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

i came to Orthodoxy from the Baptist church. Since coming back to the US I've noticed that seems to be where a very high percentage of them came from.

Now I know we do not go out to Baptist Parking lots leaving literature under wiper blades so can anyone explain this?

That is a great question -- also for Catholics as well.

I don't see how they get new people to actually attend if they do not do it via marriage, or infant baptism etc.

what would be the "other reason"??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The Southern Baptist Convention is the second largest church in the United States, second only to Roman Catholicism. The SBC is the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S. And the SBC isn't all Baptists, so it's not hard to extrapolate that Baptists of different sorts make up a significant demographic of American Protestantism, statistically higher than many other Protestant groups.

So I'd wager it's a pretty good statistical chance that taking any average number of American Protestants who convert to Orthodoxy that a fair number will have come from a Baptist background.

So it may simply be a matter of averages.

Just like there's probably a good chance that in England most Protestant converts to Orthodoxy are going to come from a Church of England background.

-CryptoLutheran

And just like in the Baptist church and SDA church and others a high percentage trace their conversion from Catholic.

But my question is about conversion to Catholic, EO etc especially in the U.S.

How does it happen outside of infant baptism or marriage?? Is it through the charity work? schools?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[~Anastasia~]

That is a great question -- also for Catholics as well.

I don't see how they get new people to actually attend if they do not do it via marriage, or infant baptism etc.

what would be the "other reason"??

in Christ,

Bob

Maybe by teaching Truth? By having communities that really function as the Church? By having a rich Tradition with services that bring people into a sacred atmosphere and teach through the liturgy? By having tools that help one to grow closer to God?

Seems to be working at my Church.

Oh ... and not running around bashing others unfairly. It doesn't tend to draw in people who are seeking God. Not good fruit, you know ...

 

[GoingByzantine]

And just like in the Baptist church and SDA church and others a high percentage trace their conversion from Catholic.

But my question is about conversion to Catholic, EO etc especially in the U.S.

How does it happen outside of infant baptism or marriage?? Is it through the charity work? schools?

in Christ,

Bob

Probably just people seeking seeking the truth, maybe through their interpretation of Scripture, they believe the Catholic Church is the right church for them.

 

[BobRyan]

Probably just people seeking seeking the truth, maybe through their interpretation of Scripture, they believe the Catholic Church is the right church for them.

Clearly an adult convert to the RCC beliieves it is the right church for them if they are not doing it for marriage etc.

My question - is how does that happen?

 

[BobRyan]

Maybe by teaching Truth? By having communities that really function as the Church? By having a rich Tradition with services that bring people into a sacred atmosphere

ok so you say that you are getting a lot of "walk in's " people who just "show up" with no connection at all to the RCC??

REally?

Is there no one here that converted to the RCC as an adult - apart from marriage etc?

If there is someone - or if you personally know of someone who just walked in -- please share with us.

in Christ,

Bob